Major 'informal' albums

In the vicinity of this thread and "back to basics" albums (#onethread), John Mellencamp's Dance Naked was a response to the relative failure of the more "baroque" arrangements of Human Wheels.

Jacson Browne's Running on Empty has aspects of this. Is the fitness-for-this-thread-ishness diluted by it's massive success?

while Pete, beyond the opening song, isn't back as a writer until track seven on the other side

What's frustrating about A Quick One is that, earlier that year, they'd released "Substitute," "I'm A Boy," and "Happy Jack," all of which would have improved the album considerably (and in fact, "Happy Jack" replaced "Heat Wave" on the US version of the album, itself titled Happy Jack).

Yeah, that's the version I have, didn't know it ever had "Heat Wave" on it! Hot damn would it be a killer album with those other tracks crammed in. It's not like it's even a long album so this is one of those cases where I wish the American editors had done even more meddling against the artist's wishes.

Queens of the Stone Age albums Era Vulgaris and Villains both feel like "we're trying out some new directions, here's what's in the workbook".

It's not like it's even a long album so this is one of those cases where I wish the American editors had done even more meddling against the artist's wishes.

There was also the Ready Steady Who EP earlier in 1966. Put "Disguises," "Circles," and "Batman" on the US A Quick One -- in addition to the aforementioned singles -- and it suddenly becomes one of the more significant records of 1966.

But US Decca couldn't even meddle properly. They had no clue how to market a British rock act in the US, which is why all the pre-"Happy Jack" singles flopped here. The idea that anyone at Decca at the time would pick those 1966 Who singles and EP tracks and think, "Hey, we can make a seriously great album out of this!" was ludicrous -- they were still trying to sell Ricky Nelson records.

Zooropa is a funny one because at the time it was definitely marketed as a major event where U2 would blow everyone's minds and take music to the future, and when it turned out to be a bit shit commercially and critically, the whole thing was retconned as "just a bit of an experiment, nothing too serious".

Yeah that's why it doesn't quite fit (while coming closer than many others). The marketing was relatively toned down - no actual singles in most countries, until Stay half a year later, the release of which was almost a separate thing altogether anyway - but it was attached to Zoo TV so inevitably it had MS written all over it. The loose marketing idea that Zooropa was their (or even rock's) big technological leap forward took care of itself at a time when others i.e. Billy Idol were huffing and puffing (and nowhere near as famous anyway).

I'm unfamiliar with the Mellencamp and Jackson Browne albums but this will give me an excuse to at least get clued up.

Queens of the Stone Age albums Era Vulgaris and Villains both feel like "we're trying out some new directions, here's what's in the workbook".

Years since I've heard either but I see that. The last Foos may fit alongside them as well.

Neil Young's Tonight's The Night fits in with this, as an album not released until a few years after its recording, loose, jammy, seemingly for themselves as much as anything. Even Zooropa has that bit of an air of "one for us" after a "one for them" blockbuster.

Although I'd say Neil's tactic from 1973 on was making informal albums into major statements.

Although the record was a success, in the years following its release, the group have regarded it with mixed feelings and rarely play its material in live performances. Bono said, "I thought of Zooropa at the time as a work of genius. I really thought our pop discipline was matching our experimentation and this was our Sgt. Pepper. I was a little wrong about that. The truth is our pop disciplines were letting us down. We didn't create hits. We didn't quite deliver the songs. And what would Sgt. Pepper be without the pop songs?"[111] The Edge said that he did not think the songs were "potent", further stating, "I never thought of Zooropa as anything more than an interlude... but a great one, as interludes go. By far our most interesting."[18] Clayton said, "It's an odd record and a favourite of mine."[35]

U2 as always misunderstanding where their true strengths lie. iirc the record was largely acclaimed at least stateside, I also remember it not being regarded as the massive next step into future sounds (that would be how Pop was unleashed) but maybe the single example of U2 talking about in upcoming work as just a bit of fun, a bonus, a coda, etc.

They (often wrongly) get cold feet about every album of theirs that doesn't take off towards true populist heights. R&H and Pop ofc have bits that read like that on their wikis but (perhaps surprisingly) the most major of all is for No Line on the Horizon.

also yeah Zooropa I think is always regarded as a 7 or 8/10 album critically. I don't think that's ever really changed in the years since.

really? i feel like it's gone up in estimation. when i was first getting into u2 (in the years between all that you can't and how to dismantle), the general sentiment seemed to be "avoid zooropa and pop."

Low "cmon" feels like one of these to me

Our local alt-weekly gave Zooropa a 1/5 with a comment like "coke-addled rock stars phone in their latest from the back seat of their limousines".

It was mentioned (albeit slightly qualified) upthread but Caribou really isn't far off the sort of thing I mean. It's probably more Elton's Goats Head Soup than Black and Blue in truth but still, it's a quickie, largely fun LP from near the top of the mountain that tentatively dips its toes into cabaret, funk, country and continental waters while holding on to a smattering of actual set-pieces (most notably DLTSGDOM).

Elton is a funny one for this because so many of his classic-period albums are similar grab-bags of genre/sonic exercises, and AFAIK all of them were cranked out in ludicrously short time frames. One of those artists where the 'major statement' versus 'major informal' line might really just be drawn by marketing, chart success, and critical reception. Caribou FEELS more like "major informal" than Captain Fantastic, Don't Shoot Me..., or either disc of Goodbye Yellow Brick Road, but is that just because those records are better and more celebrated?

that album Nas did with Damian Marley

An informal album wouldn't start with "Funeral for a Friend" or end with "Curtains", though; there's definitely a feeling of (somewhat campy) high seriousness in the presentation. "Ticking" was apparently meant to be a big statement but it seems to be totally forgotten, maybe because the album is dismissed and it was never a single.

I feel like every rap album after like 2008 is informal

some exceptions aside of course

Yeah, I sometimes think that Carter III was like the last traditional formal rap album

Not that they were major rock artists at the time (and probably still aren't) but Darklands felt pretty informal after the pretty major statement of Psychocandy.

has no one yet mentioned the first Traveling Wilburys album?

Seems to violate the "it can't be a side project" rule

There's a Riot Goin' On seems like an LP that is both musically informal and a major statement, as opposed to Fresh, and pretty much everything that came after it, which is/are mainly informal.

One of those artists where the 'major statement' versus 'major informal' line might really just be drawn by marketing, chart success, and critical reception. Caribou FEELS more like "major informal" than Captain Fantastic, Don't Shoot Me..., or either disc of Goodbye Yellow Brick Road, but is that just because those records are better and more celebrated?

Yeah this is the odd line Elton walks. But I'd say Caribou definitely is a bit more MI than at least two of those (as Brick Road is a double and Cap Fantastic a concept record). Whereas Piano Player feels about as regular an imperial Elton album as there is (at least to me), next to which Caribou feels a bit more loose and ad-hoc (even more diverse without it being known as his "eclectic" album, + slightly arbitrary album cover and title (just naming it after the studio).)

what about Tin Machine?

this also makes me think of Taylor Swift's Evermore, but "surprise" is not the same as the informal vibe here and there was by definition zero promo

xp Tonight is definitely Bowie's imo. Tin Machine was both a side-project and a Major Statement/self-revision (which in itself is unlikely combination).

Kendrick - untitled unmastered