Guitars... what you've got / what you want

yeah first of all this is super exciting news!

a few things come to mind, i haven't tried a newer modeling amp but i am a very analog person and even working with the interfaces/controls would probably drive me a little crazy....also a bigger regular tube amp is a better long-term investment for you and anything else you may want to do in the future. so the current guy may have a bunch of pedals but is he really using all of them in ways that are super important? like there's a chance that there are two or three things he relies on a ton and the rest are sort of nice to have. i would see if you can figure that out and then budget what you can afford that might get you most of the way there. also you're obviously going to have a big upfront expense no matter what but a pedal board you can add to and modify over time as you see what works where if you go all-in on a modeling amp you're kind of backed into a corner. so i would start with an amp you're really happy with and the figure out the pedals gradually. also not for nothing but taking that boss katana as an example, you're also going to probably be buying a $150 foot controller to use it live which is like 1.5 useful pedals in itself.

full list of effects for the katana is here btw (the reverbs and delays are a few pages down):
https://static.roland.com/assets/media/pdf/BTS_KTN-Mk2_eng04_W.pdf#page=15

I don't feel convinced that the Katana is the solution. I have spent enough time around Katanas and Line 6 Spiders and whatnot and... as I said, I am not convinced.

Personally I just use a good ol' Blues Junior when I want an amp. Straight in.

If I am using effects pedals I figure I may as well go direct, so it's a Sansamp Blonde or Para Driver. Blonde is really good for guitar. Para Driver slightly better for other instruments.

Me, I only need three sounds: clean, dirty, and weird. (The "weird" varies, between phaser, delay, ring modulator, flanger, etc.)

Also what call all destroyer said

okay cool thanks everyone, i think i was kinda hoping to get talked off the ledge about the katana

i unfortunately don't really know what was on his pedal board or how much he was actually using, so like suggested it's possible he was only using like 3 out of 7 or whatever

but the arguments for quality first is convincing...plus I do have two pedals that are good and useful - hall reverb and overdrive, so those are two fairly staple pedals i have

i suppose from there, maybe a good digital delay pedal would be good. -- also THANKS i didn't know the footpedal controllers were extra, that's a big deal...

some amps have spring reverb and tremolo so that is more sounds

so if I have:

overdrive
reverb

next most important pedal i'm assuming is a digital delay?

Reverb should be always on. If you like your amp's onboard reverb, you don't even need a pedal.*

Drive or distortion will get you from clean to dirty.

Delay is fun but fussy - it's easy to set a Rockabilly style slap-back delay. But if you want yo sound like The Edge, that takes a lot more effort, with tap tempo and possibly even multiple delays. Very difficult in a live setting.

For you, I recommend a Phase 90. Boom, done.

yeah definitely some sort of delay with a wide range of delay times and preferably delay types (boss dd8 maybe?)

would also get some modulation, like a chorus that can also do vibrato and maybe flanger or phaser if you fuck with those

you might need some distortion / fuzz too though? get a rat imo

okay yeah probably a modulator too

DEFINITELY going to need digital delay based on the show i saw

as far as a fuzz/distortion, tone wise he was leaning towards clean tones, it's not post-rocky exactly but mostly instrumental with a saxophone player but nothing like heavy heavy at all

this is what i got for overdrive, was on clearance once on harman's site

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=13NouN_n_3s

* = I don't love the onboard reverb of my amp so, alas, I need a different reverb. Fortunately I have the best one in existence (MXR) so I am fine.

To Nick's point, there are a few "Swiss army" pedals out there that can do a bunch of different modulation types. I haven't tried them because a Phase 90 gives me all the underwater sounds I need.

One significant question is, what guitar(s) will you be playing? Amp recommendations would depend on that.

oh it's kind of a weird one - i posted about it upthread. basically this godin that i had modded. tele body but HSH configuration. i had pickups replaced with two PAFS at bridge and neck (splittable by pulling out the tone knob) and then a P90 in the middle that's housed in the body of a tele neck pickup

i also have a conventional telecaster w/b-bender i might use some (old squier w/stock picksups)

yeah sounds like a dd8 or line 6 dl4 would be a good thing to start looking at….one of those plus reverb and like a phase 90 as YMP suggested will cover a lot of territory.

on the subject of mod pedals, this video kinda blew my mind, not sure why i hadn't thought about this before:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HJIPueJ8Vo4

YMP - how is the Blues Junior for clean stuff? also how loud is it? good enough for gigs with a decently but not super loud band?

Blues Junior is plenty loud at 15w. I have never needed anything bigger for a club/bar gig. AC30, JC90, Maybe.

Deluxe Reverb at 22w is too much amp. A Twin or JC120 is WAY too much for most situations you will ever realistically encounter.

Because (hear me out) past a certain size of venue, you will be mic'd anyway. From my perspective there is utterly no reason to go out there with a large or high-wattage amp.

A. You will be mic'd anyway

And B. You will pretty much never get the chance to hear the amp's full potential, because unless you are in a stadium it will be too goddamn loud.

And C. Even in an arena, you will not be able to hear your Marshall stack (or whatever) because of points A and B (it will be mic'd anyway, and the sound people will probably not let you crank it/dime it).

Seriously, go direct (Sansamp) or use a smallish tube amp like the Blues Junior or Vox AC15. Or maybe Peavey Classic 50 or Roland JC-90.

oh cool i was gonna ask about the peavey classic 50, i'm a fan of peavey's stuff and people tend to not think it's cool so you can get it for cheaper

i brought up the Blues Jr because this is posted on my local craigslist and the dude seems A BIT INSANE but maybe in a good way? certainly will have been serviced and working well

https://minneapolis.craigslist.org/wsh/msg/d/river-falls-fender-blues-junior/7640032447.html

Seriously, go direct (Sansamp) or use a smallish tube amp like the Blues Junior or Vox AC15. Or maybe Peavey Classic 50 or Roland JC-90.

― Bonobo Vox (Ye Mad Puffin), Friday, August 11, 2023 2:02 PM (one minute ago) bookmarkflaglink

the direct thing is appealing but this band seems to play a lot of DIY circuit stuff (galleries, record stores, houses, etc) in addition to clubs so can't depend on a good PA all the time

Caveat: I love me a Blues Junior but the onboard reverb on the stock models is decidedly tinny. Occasionally you see modded ones out there and it's worth looking into.

I have played through (but not owned) various Deluxe Reverbs and Twins that were delightful - but, as I have said, way too much amp for most bars.

how is the blues jr clean tones?

Personally I am very happy with the Fender clean sound, and see no reason to ever look at anything else. (With the aforementioned reverb issue.) It's like "no one ever got fired for buying IBM." The only time I don't use a Blues Junior is when I use the Sansamp Blonde (which is, in fact, an emulation of the same basic sound).

Still, that Peavey works fine for some people. Maybe also look at the Blackstar club?

cool, yeah the reverb this isn't a big hassle i have a decent pedal and if i needed a decent flavor seems like there are a ton of really affordable reverb pedals out there

i like this guy who has made it his personal mission to fix all the blues juniors in the world

tube fender clean is my favorite electric guitar sound. I also have a blues jr but do not gig. Master volume knob is important as you can decouple volume and drive, which isn't a given for little 15w tube amps it seems.

I am mostly playing the solo from "No Woman No Cry" on a PRS to squirrels, but not one has complained about tinny built-in reverb.

https://i.imgur.com/jrtswVm.jpg

I used to play my les paul through this Peavey. Very satisfying. Just a monster

Sufjan otm. The way the volume/master knobs are set up is kinda backwards in a hilarious way - in the same way that the tremolo arm is actually vibrato. The Fenderverse is its own thing, and we can either choose to embrace it or reject it. Personally i choose to embrace it.

i like this guy who has made it his personal mission to fix all the blues juniors in the world

― call all destroyer, Friday, August 11, 2023 2:25 PM (sixteen minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

lol i know he has two other ones up on CL right now, they were a little more assuming because of cabinet condition

I have a knockoff clone of a Peavey Classic 30 and it’s everything I need (apart from slightly flaky wiring). Similar EL34/spring reverb magic of a Fender Deluxe, with an effect loop in the preamp.

xp way back to nickb, that stacking pedals video is great!

A clone of a Classic 30? You bought it that way? Someone made it for you? That's pretty interesting.

Ums have you looked into/played a fender hot rod deluxe amp? Pretty basic but still quality, good pedal platform.

Hot Rod series are great in my opinion. The clean sound is quite decent, they are CERTAINLY loud enough (at least from the Deluxe and up) they are everywhere and they are cheap. They are backline at a lot of places. They do have a few spots where the construction is not the best and if you gig them hard they will need some little things here and there, but they're workhorses. We should stop using the word workhorse and instead use hot rod deville.

Lower wattage tube amps... might not be for every situation. If you want to play loud and clean, they can't. They overdrive early. If you don't super clean 70s country / 80s anything tones, no problem. Playing with loud drummers is a big problem for anything other than a twin and up. Some of these little amps (I had an 18 watt marshall which I really really tried to love) have such a pronounced inherent overdrive tone that they get funky with dirt pedals. They'll mic it up you say.... well, alright, except now you're at the mercy of some random sound guy, some random monitoring situation, possibly none or very little soundcheck time. I'm just saying that I need, bare minimum, enough amp behind me to be heard over a drummer... and I need the sound to be clean/cleanish in most situations. I'm way too old for halfstacks anymore, so I settled for the worlds heaviest 1x12 combo.

that should say if you don't NEED super clean.... no problem.

This is where I plug Ampeg's Jet and Reverberocket amps. Some of the 90s reissues (when Mackie did their best to mess up the Ampeg brand), are really good and still undervalued. I'm annoyed that I never picked up a J-20 when Sam Ash was fire saleing them for $299 each - a steal for what essentially is handwired 20W Hot Rod 1x12

xxxxp it’s pretty much an exact Classic 30 clone made in China for the Australian company Strauss, who used to do stage amps of their own manufacture back in the 70s.
I fired it up on the weekend and it has some gnarly intermittent crackles so I will need to go over the solder joints on the PCB (after discharging the caps of course).

if only there were some kind of...Holy Grail of Tone within driving radius

lol perfect tone was within my grasp

thanks for all these recommendations - i would say clean tone is definitely a priority for this band, will check out the Hot Rod Deluxe and the Ampegs

I have a knockoff clone of a Peavey Classic 30 and it’s everything I need (apart from slightly flaky wiring). Similar EL34/spring reverb magic of a Fender Deluxe, with an effect loop in the preamp.

― assert (matttkkkk), Friday, August 11, 2023 3:23 PM (three days ago) bookmarkflaglink

i'm a big fan of peavey - but they do tend to be so frickin heavy - how is the classic 30 in that regard?

oh was gonna ask - how about the Roland Jazz Chorus? any thoughts?

My college band was very dependent on a JC120; we put everything through it. Utterly perfect solid-state clean.

Too much amp for most contexts I play in, but I did have access to a JC90 for a while and that was perfect.

The JC is almost too clean imho. Serious hearing damage with the wrong tone

interesting, sounds like one you'd want to try with your own guitar before buying

i'm a big fan of peavey - but they do tend to be so frickin heavy - how is the classic 30 in that regard?
well my clone is appallingly heavy for a 1x12 combo. Apparently the original is 17kg/39lb which sounds about right.

In overly heavy 1x12 combo land, the Orange Tremlord 30 is cool - very clean but more '50s Harmony/Supro style EQ over Fender Blackface clean (ie it has mids), dual tremolo and spring reverb, 30/15/2/1 watt settings. Expensive new but the one my friend bought off Craigslist was $600 because the guy didn't want to ship it. 40 pounds sounds about right for weight.

My amps now are two Electronic Audio pedals going into the line in on a Fryette Power Station - the Model FeT that's sort of Sunn Model T-y and the Citadel that's sort of an idealized Marshall JMP. Due to volume issues I always had to reamp my real amp through the Fryette anyway so I decided to try these and really couldn't tell a difference from an amp head.

Milo, that is intriguing. I have often lusted after the Tech 21 Power Engine (not really a standalone amp, rather a speaker that you can use with a Sansamp).

I use Sansamps frequently (indeed, daily). So the idea of a device that just takes a tone you already like and just makes it loud? That is appealing.

I will have to look into the Fryette. Even though it sounds like a kitchen appliance.

I happened to have the Power Station already, otherwise there are a lot of cheaper options for clean power amps. Supposedly there's something about the interaction of a tube amp like the Fryette (even ultra clean) with a speaker that's more pleasing than a solid state amp but that gets into borderline audiophile weeds for me.

You guys know I'm a compulsive idiot, right? tha's why this mf is on its way from Shinjuku after some negotiation
https://i.imgur.com/I68i33L.jpg

I have a JC-120 I bought from The Church when they unloaded a bunch of their US gear in the late 1990s. Marty Willson-Piper paired it with an AC30 and that combo sounds great if you're in a really big club. Yup, it's extremely clean but with the right pedal combo you can shoegaze the fuck out of it, but fundamentally it's only going to make whatever you have louder. I've always used mine with keyboards - it sounds fab with a Farfisa.

OTOH, I once saw David Lindley play through JC-120 and he sounded exactly like himself. YMMV

xpost beautiful bass

- #1 thanks to everyone for all the great and thoughtful advice, i love this thread. i'm really glad i didn't rush out and buy a boss katana haha so you talked me off the ledge.

committed to taking my time and going to local shops and trying things out with my guitar instead of impulse buying like i always do

last night after work I went to a Music Go Round in the burbs and played an amp not mentioned here and REALLY liked it, will definitely be considering it, though it's more than I want to (it will be there for a while, they are getting the reverb tank replaced/fixed later this week so it's going to a shop)

It's a Music Man 210 Seventy Five...late 70s likely...definitely is LOUD and has a ton of clean headroom. Reverb was on the blink but it has a sort or weirdly cool built-in phaser for some reasons which is nice because it's fun and not a pedal I would probably spend money on.

sounded really good, really high quality. Not too familiar with Music Man amps but apparently Leo Fender designed this one. It's definitely a "Fender" type amp. Smaller than a Twin Reverb but in that zone.

https://www.musicgoround.com/product/woodbury-mn/41123-S000105350/used-musicman-210-tube-guitar-amps

Oh, Music Man is a great choice for clean headroom.

I sometimes forget about them because most music stores are Fender Fender Marshall Fender Vox Marshall Marshall Fender.

(Insert Brady Bunch "Marcia Marcia Marcia" meme here)

That amp looks great