Post a controversial music opinion

I'm not sure how much of ILX shares my personal-taste view on ballads, but my own personal issue with most of them is the way they often lack any contribution from a rhythm section, which, when amplified by the languid tempo, results in the song getting too boring. And far too often, a rhythmless ballad derails an album's momentum.

However, when a ballad has those percussive/rhythmic elements (syncopation, variety in instrumental textures and frequencies), and chord/melodic progressions that drift towards dreamy/shoegaze/New Age idioms, now we're talking.

Maybe this is why I'll offer more positivity for, say, Little Dragon's "Feather" then Paul McCartney's "My Love".

ballads aren’t really meant for jacking the groove tbh

well, yknow

I'm not sure how much of ILX shares my personal-taste view on ballads, but my own personal issue with most of them is the way they often lack any contribution from a rhythm section, which, when amplified by the languid tempo, results in the song getting too boring. And far too often, a rhythmless ballad derails an album's momentum.

However, when a ballad has those percussive/rhythmic elements (syncopation, variety in instrumental textures and frequencies), and chord/melodic progressions that drift towards dreamy/shoegaze/New Age idioms, now we're talking.

hence why Stevie Wonder ballads rule.

voodoo chili otm

i think there are definitely a lot of absolutely abominable ballads, ones trying to get by exclusively on gooey sentiment but possess zero power or momentum.

i think one defense of a lot of power ballads from hard rock acts in the late '80s is they really did bring a lot of cinematic sweep to that style. "Love Bites", "The Flame", "Is This Love", etc. it's the same for a lot of quiet storm type tracks, or really powerful R&B/soul ballads. "I Don't Want to Cry" by Mariah, i like that one a ton, lots of really nice flourishes in the production. i don't mind syrupy Stevie either, "You Are the Sunshine of My Life" is great. "I Just Called..." much less so, it's a stiffer track for sure.

ballads, as with any style of song, suck if there is no imagination put into them, and like any non-ballad pop song, can be boring if they are rote and by numbers. they can be great if care and songcraft are put into it.

for example, I love most of Stevie's from the 70s (especially "Knocks Me Off My Feet"), but find most of Michael Jackson's to be some of his weaker material. although if you consider "Human Nature" a ballad, that one is an all-timer. but not sure if that qualifies.

"love of a lifetime" by Firehouse, "Every Rose Has Its Thorn", "High Enough" -- those are imo solid examples of absolutely terrible power ballads.

I note that one of the Stevie side-eyes came to us from the only person I have ever met who loathes Bill Evans, for reasons that seem mostly to do with “his music is too emotional.” But I digress.

I despite "classic era" Stevie Wonder. "Key Of Life" is notable for me as having, pound-for-pound, a greater number of contenders for the "worst song ever recorded" than any other album I have listened to. "Isn't She Lovely" plays on loop in my most hideous nightmares

What you hear as gooey, I hear as such a perfect union of triteness and sanctimony that there are nuclear results.

i admit i can't really hang w/that one either.

*despise, not despite

Think u both need to have a talk with God

hence why Stevie Wonder ballads rule.

voodoo chili otm

― the dreaded dependent claus (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, August 21, 2023 11:00 AM (twenty-three minutes ago)

Does "Living for the City" count as a ballad? I used to think so since it shares a tempo with many songs that are considered ballads, but maybe it hits too hard early in the song (rather than builds like "Summer Soft"). I guess I'm a bad authority in what qualifies and what does not

gonna say no for "living for the city," "golden lady," and "he's misstra know-it-all," yes for "visions" and "all in love is fair"

lol Neanderthal otm, although I am enjoying the hot takes here

Songs in the Key of Life is the least of the classic Stevie albums, it's true, and I don't listen to "Isn't She Lovely" of my own volition; but I wanna hear goon dis Stevie Wonder some more.

"Visions" sounds like it's beaming in from a distant corner of the universe -- one of Neptune's moons or something.

for reasons that seem mostly to do with “his music is too emotional.”

Since I didn't say what I don't like about Evans, I don't know where you got this from. But now that the subject's come up...Bill Evans is fucking boring. He played dinnertime music — and when he didn't, 'cause I've heard tracks where he and his trio would try and rev up and even go "out," he was completely at sea. I'm aware that artists I admire liked him, but plenty of brilliant musicians have terrible taste. I'll listen to a dozen Ahmad Jamal albums before one by Bill Evans.

I love Overjoyed as well idk if that makes me a poser

No way. More songs need dripping water percussive effects.

Thanks voodoo for the classification assistance! I know this does not qualify for the "post a controversial music opinion" thread, but Stevie's musical output from 1970-1976 was prolific to the point of ridiculosity. Oh, there's the 5 albums from 1965-69, too. I still place 1985's "Go Home" as my fave song, though (OK, I guess that's kinda controversial)

Not to mention the material he wrote and produced for others.

Speaking of Motown, is it controversial to kind of agree with Dylan’s assertion that Smokey Robinson is “America’s greatest poet”

One day Alfo I’ll do a live typed commentary on those four albums, but for me, “having a talk with God” means revisiting Wonder’s 60s recordings, which I love

He played dinnertime music

This reminds me of the time I had a Wayne Shorter CD playing in the car when I drove my family to the airport and my suburban zoomer niece referred to it as "Weather channel music." But then, she isn't a jazz critic

"suburban zoomer niece" is a good band name

who's zoomin who

The Weather Channel used to use "So What" as a forecast screen soundtrack for years.

Speaking of Motown, is it controversial to kind of agree with Dylan’s assertion that Smokey Robinson is “America’s greatest poet”

― deep wubs and tribral rhythms (Boring, Maryland), Monday, August 21, 2023 11:58 AM (thirty minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/2/2d/Smokey_Robinson_-_Gasms.jpg

gasms will never not be funny

This reminds me of the time I had a Wayne Shorter CD playing in the car when I drove my family to the airport and my suburban zoomer niece referred to it as "Weather channel music." But then, she isn't a jazz critic

Weather Report music obv

Weather Report is good music to have on while you're making a salad.

Controversial music opinion (one I think I've posted here before): Weather Report were great right up until Jaco Pastorius joined, and sucked afterward.

first Zawinul record is fire

Weather Report is good music to have on while you're making a salad.

― immodesty blaise (jimbeaux), Monday, August 21, 2023 7:03 PM (forty-three minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

the kind of useful music info i keep coming to ilm for

that there is post-punk but not post-prog while there is neo-prog but not neo-punk is a bit rich

post prog I feel would be something like Radiohead

wouldn’t post prog be all those hippie drum n bass burning man bands

Controversial music opinion (one I think I've posted here before): Weather Report were great right up until Jaco Pastorius joined, and sucked afterward.

― read-only (unperson), Monday, August 21, 2023 1:33 PM (twenty-five minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

strong disagree

the last weather report album with jaco was the best and I wish they had made a sequel felt like it was about to LEVEL UP

the kind of useful music info i keep coming to ilm for

Glad to be of service. Your salads will really zing.

I Zing the Body Electric

lol

Hahaha

idk why people are so down on ballads, "flow my tears" is an all-time killer

there's that ONE it's-- i forget

To be clear, I do think I could put together a pretty extensive playlist of mind-blowing Stevie songs. It’s just that there’s a lot of sort of wandering, bleating things crowding them out on the albums. Guy is some kinda genius for sure, just maybe not my kinda.

tbh I think all of Stevie's classic albums have some bad parts on them, I mean you listen to "Sweet Little Girl" and tell me what the hell is going on

wouldn’t post prog be all those hippie drum n bass burning man bands

― brimstead, Monday, August 21, 2023 2:59 PM (one hour ago) bookmarkflaglink

post-prog would be camberwell now, magazine, long fin killie, radiohead, opeth, and lots of awesome others