Post by brimstead from i need a cd player and i have no money on ILX - i need a cd player and i have no money
― brimstead, Sunday, 7 January 2024 04:19 (eight months ago) link
Are people giving up CD players getting rarer or more common? I picked up a 5-disc Onkyo off the street a few months back.
― Philip Nunez, Sunday, 7 January 2024 15:45 (eight months ago) link
i thought i had more discs than i actually do... but i catalogued everything tonight and it was satisfying. this is two years of collecting. i reckon i would have been able to afford maybe 50-80 LPs in that timeframe. perfect sound forever!
http://www.discogs.com/collection?user=elinsound
― maelin, Wednesday, 10 January 2024 19:20 (eight months ago) link
I think by now a lot of people just don't have CD players at all
― the absence of bikes (f. hazel), Wednesday, 10 January 2024 19:42 (eight months ago) link
I still have a portable one, but I can’t remember the last time I had a CD-only player. Seemed either pointless or a luxury to have one thanks to DVD’s and later Blu-rays (not to mention video games but I never got into those).
― birdistheword, Wednesday, 10 January 2024 21:54 (eight months ago) link
Should say “buy” one, not “have.” I remember my family still had a hulking Pioneer CD player with a six-disc magazine that was really old but still functional. I don’t remember them ever giving it or throwing it away so I have no idea what happened to it.
― birdistheword, Wednesday, 10 January 2024 21:58 (eight months ago) link
i drive a 2017 car which has a CD player but i assume it'll be the last one i own which still has one. unless i'm completely misinformed on the supposed death of the car CD player.
i've actually bought more CDs in the past year than any other year in the past decade. i'm happy to be getting a CD for only $2-3 bucks, now that all records are $20. the shoddiness of a lot of new vinyl pressings has started to make the whole enterprise feel like a scam, save a few specific artists and extremely high QC labels. i'm still *mostly* buying records, but the scales are tipping.
― omar little, Wednesday, 10 January 2024 22:16 (eight months ago) link
My car (2009 Nissan Versa) has a 6CD changer, but I don't think I've ever used it. I just plug my digital Walkman into the aux port.
― Tahuti Watches L&O:SVU Reruns Without His Ape (unperson), Wednesday, 10 January 2024 22:51 (eight months ago) link
you can still buy head units with CD players for pretty cheap for cars. i got one last month for $100
― 龜, Thursday, 11 January 2024 14:41 (eight months ago) link
the bass in my old subaru is hefty. reggae and Eyehategod CDs all day long.
(after work last night i put my dad in the car, started it, turned on the heat, and went across the street to Cheech & Chong's Dispensaria. when i come back to the car i totally forgot that I left the volume way up on my solo ride in to work that morning. dad got 5 prime minutes of very loud *In The Name Of Suffering*. i hope he doesn't start acting up at the Senior Center.)
― scott seward, Thursday, 11 January 2024 15:19 (eight months ago) link
I feel bad for even having an opinion about how physical media is produced these day, other than “stop making physical media”… but yeah CDs:- it would be nice if one could buy replacement jewel cases that were thick and sturdy like in the 80s- I hate digisleeves unless they’re those mini LP thingees with the soft inner sleeve for the disc. really hate how they’ve become the default for new releases in a lot of cases, the cd is obviously an afterthought. I’m still using the same mid00s Sony DVD/SACD player I mentioned in 2021 and it still works fine.
― brimstead, Thursday, 11 January 2024 16:40 (eight months ago) link
CD packaging has always sucked, with the exception of a few thoughtfully designed box sets. I generally throw CD packaging away and put the discs in a binder.
― o. nate, Thursday, 11 January 2024 16:49 (eight months ago) link
I've definitely seen boxes of CD cases left out on the street, sometimes even brand new, though more recently I've seen just spindles of blank unused CD-Rs/RWs.
― Philip Nunez, Thursday, 11 January 2024 17:05 (eight months ago) link
I can’t figure out why CDs from the ‘90s, including old favorites, sounds so muddy to me now, in comparison to modern discs (when played in the same player). Are they mastered differently now?Tracks from the same albums sound great when streamed at high quality, but the CDs themselves are not pleasant to listen to anymore… it’s like night and day in comparison to new recordings (or remasters of the old recordings).
― Wooly Bully (2005 Remaster) (morrisp), Friday, 12 January 2024 03:50 (eight months ago) link
There's a whole world of surgical digital EQ, lookahead brickwall limiting, etc... could it be your own tastes lean more toward modern production? The traditional audiofool wisdom is that older CDs are better (I don't know that I personally agree).
― Reeves Gabrels' Funko Pop (majorairbro), Friday, 12 January 2024 05:15 (eight months ago) link
Often it’s a simple level thing - hotter mixes are perceived as sounding better in general, and a lot of 90s discs were mastered for normal headroom before the “loudness wars” of the 90s / 00s in which mastering was goosed to try to cut thru on streaming / shuffle play. Try turning the older discs up!
― assert (matttkkkk), Friday, 12 January 2024 06:28 (eight months ago) link
I have… they just sound worse! :( It’s like a “clarity” thing… idkGranted, some of these are “mid-fi” indie-rock albums; but others are big-budget studio recordings (…and for comparison, today’s indie-rock albums can sound great, anyway; like the last Big Thief album, that CD sounds terrific).
― Wooly Bully (2005 Remaster) (morrisp), Friday, 12 January 2024 06:38 (eight months ago) link
name some albums that sound bad?
― 龜, Friday, 12 January 2024 13:05 (eight months ago) link
Yeah, I’d say CDs started sounding bad in general around 1995 and got worse for about a decade, and have been improving since. (A very general statement— exceptions abound.) Pre-loudness-wars discs often sound sublime; I’ve never been tempted to buy Daniel Lanois’ Wynona on vinyl, and a remastered version wouldn’t tempt me, because I can’t imagine anything sounding better than the original CD. On the other hand, Sam Roberts’ We Were Born In a Flame is so poorly mastered that it literally hurts my ears to listen to, even at low volumes, and the LP is a huge improvement. Brickwall was/is a bitch.
― lethbridge-pfunkboy (hardcore dilettante), Friday, 12 January 2024 13:28 (eight months ago) link
There was an interview with Stephen Street where he said that, in the late 80s / early 90s, mastering engineers often filtered the bottom end and reduced the stereo field. Neither of those changes sound like they'd be for the better and he seemed as mystified as anyone else why they'd do that.
― Supposed Former ILM Lurker (WeWantMiles), Friday, 12 January 2024 14:26 (eight months ago) link
Reducing the stereo field & filtering out the bottom end is important for vinyl mastering.
― Siegbran, Friday, 12 January 2024 14:37 (eight months ago) link
Hilarious that this post was started over 16 years ago.
― TO BE A JAZZ SINGER YOU HAVE TO BE ABLE TO SCAT (Jazzbo), Friday, 12 January 2024 15:21 (eight months ago) link
10,000 Maniacs - Our Time in Eden Bought this when it came out, was a big fan, listened to it a lot... recently got back into it on streaming; sounds so great & lush. Dug out the old CD... does not sound lush!
The Sugarcubes - Here Today, Tomorrow Next Week!Bought this sealed on eBay (a new "record club" pressing, from back in the day)... I won't say it sounds "bad," but it's fairly harsh and tiring on the ears. Very "CD" sounding, in that way that CDs used to have.
Smashing Pumpkins - Siamese DreamAnother one I bought on release day, and have listened to a lot over the years. I bought the 2011 remaster a few years back; it sounds so much better! (this one may be a matter of a taste; I won't be the one to say that the original SD mastering is "bad")
Liz Phair - WhitechocolatespaceeggYet another I used to love, and dug back out recently... it just sounds muddy! Unpleasant to listen to, compared with streaming the same tracks.
Built to Spill - There's Nothing Wrong with LoveProbably the worst offender here. I got way into this album recently (via streaming), and dug out my old copy from college. Could barely make it through the disc! It sounds so harsh and shrill. And I know it's a Sub Pop album by an indie rock band, we're not talking Fleetwood Mac... but it made in the studio w/Phil Ek, it's not like it was recorded on a tape deck.
― Wooly Bully (2005 Remaster) (morrisp), Friday, 12 January 2024 15:34 (eight months ago) link
The two Use Your Illusion reissues are another case of the remaster sounding a lot better to me than the ‘90s originals… as with Siamese Dream, I A/B’d them (and keep in mind, this isn’t always the case when we’re talking about multiple remasters of older recordings).
― Wooly Bully (2005 Remaster) (morrisp), Friday, 12 January 2024 15:58 (eight months ago) link
do you have any thoughts on the REM Monster remaster, I’m listening to the original CD right now and don’t think I would want it to be smiley face EQd or whatever, it sounds like a purring engine
― brimstead, Friday, 12 January 2024 16:43 (eight months ago) link
That’s another good example, I’ll have to pull out both versions and compare…
― Wooly Bully (2005 Remaster) (morrisp), Friday, 12 January 2024 16:55 (eight months ago) link
The original disc sounds very good… this is not a CD I would complain about! I’m not even ready to stop listening for the A/B…
― Wooly Bully (2005 Remaster) (morrisp), Friday, 12 January 2024 17:23 (eight months ago) link
OK, so I do think the remaster sounds better… every instrument is more clear, the drums sound more like drums, the bass has more presence, etc. So even though the original CD isn’t a good illustration of this phenomenon, the remaster does illustrate what I’m talking about… and it’s not just a matter of brickwalling, like in the way the 2010 remaster of Exile on Main Street sounds awful compared to the one from the 1994 disc.
― Wooly Bully (2005 Remaster) (morrisp), Friday, 12 January 2024 20:33 (eight months ago) link
Yeah, the 1994 Virgin Records remaster of Exile is the one to have.
― Tahuti Watches L&O:SVU Reruns Without His Ape (unperson), Friday, 12 January 2024 20:39 (eight months ago) link
wait morrisp - siamese dream, for example, only the 2011 remaster appears to be on spotify. so you’re saying the 2011 remaster sounds better when streamed than the 1993 original cd? not really an apples to apples comparison
― 龜, Friday, 12 January 2024 20:59 (eight months ago) link
No no, I’m comparing the actual CDs…!My comments re: streaming related to some of those other albums (that haven’t been remastered); I’m comparing how they sound on Amazon Music versus how the old CDs sound.
― Wooly Bully (2005 Remaster) (morrisp), Friday, 12 January 2024 21:04 (eight months ago) link
(and those are not being heard through the same system or speakers, so that is definitely not an apples to apples comparison; just a point of reference)
― Wooly Bully (2005 Remaster) (morrisp), Friday, 12 January 2024 21:05 (eight months ago) link
oh well if you’re comparing a remaster cd to the original cd of course it’s gonna sound different?
same with comparing a cd on one sound system to a digital stream on another. maybe you just don’t like your cd player sound system anymore?
― 龜, Friday, 12 January 2024 21:48 (eight months ago) link
Well, the new CDs sound great in it... that's my main point, the streaming & remasters are more a distraction / "how I came to notice it" (it's true that if I tried multiple ways of listening, maybe the old ones would sound different)
― Wooly Bully (2005 Remaster) (morrisp), Friday, 12 January 2024 22:18 (eight months ago) link
which of these 2 do you prefer, morrisp?
https://mega.nz/folder/t2xByYwC#Z9eC7fNnra3dXuRuyi36gw
― chihuahuau, Friday, 12 January 2024 22:26 (eight months ago) link
Uhhh is that link safe to click(?) lol
― Wooly Bully (2005 Remaster) (morrisp), Friday, 12 January 2024 22:32 (eight months ago) link
it's just 2 untagged FLAC files, track 1 of SD from the 1993 and 2011 CD masters, loudness normalised
― chihuahuau, Friday, 12 January 2024 22:36 (eight months ago) link
Cool, thx, I'll check it out
― Wooly Bully (2005 Remaster) (morrisp), Friday, 12 January 2024 22:37 (eight months ago) link
Ok, so I'd say the remastered version sounds just as much "better" to me as it does on CD – the guitars are crunchier, vocals are clearer, drums are punchier (when played at the exact same volume.) It's like there's a thin layer of gauze over everything in the 1993 version, that's been pulled away in the remaster.
The difference isn't dramatic – and the OG CD isn't one I'd complain too much about! – but I have a definite preference.
(...Watch you now tell me that you pulled a switcheroo, and "b" is actually 1993!)
― Wooly Bully (2005 Remaster) (morrisp), Friday, 12 January 2024 22:58 (eight months ago) link
Your Kickstarter Sucks just alerted me to the HOTT CD player: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/553318161/hott-cd-player-rediscover-the-soul-of-musicA stand-up version of the wall player design! lol. Looks technically better than the Muji knockoffs. Headphone jack, optical port, etc.― maf you one two (maffew12), Thursday, August 31, 2023 1:47 AM (four months ago)
A stand-up version of the wall player design! lol. Looks technically better than the Muji knockoffs. Headphone jack, optical port, etc.
― maf you one two (maffew12), Thursday, August 31, 2023 1:47 AM (four months ago)
― eatandoph (Neue Jesse Schule), Friday, 12 January 2024 23:09 (eight months ago) link
i didn't make a note of which was which but i checked and you're correct, b is the 2011 remaster indeed
for science, one more test if you're up for it? albeit not one of your examples this time, it's running up that hill, 85 vs 97https://mega.nz/folder/Mm4SDRLJ#K2B-leqHjMFI1QG7KC0Qvw
― chihuahuau, Friday, 12 January 2024 23:26 (eight months ago) link
Thanks, this is fun... in this case, it is (b) that sounds more "muffled" and less dynamic than (a). I would guess that (b) is the 1985 version, and (a) the later remaster?
― Wooly Bully (2005 Remaster) (morrisp), Saturday, 13 January 2024 00:26 (eight months ago) link
B is the louder 97 remaster, i agree that A sounds better btw, which is why i picked this track to test. trivially noticeable at around the 3 minute mark
this is how i'd expect most comparisons to turn out but as you've seen, remastering isn't necessarily a loudness boost only and some remasters can be an improvement despite also being louder for no good reason.merely comparing ReplayGain figures or DR meter scores without actually listening to the different versions is a fool's errand. if it sounds good, it is good, etc
(despite all that, unless told otherwise i'm biased to pick the older, quieter masters as a lazy rule of thumb)
― chihuahuau, Saturday, 13 January 2024 01:04 (eight months ago) link
i'm biased to pick the older, quieter masters as a lazy rule of thumb
100% agree, unless I hear or experience otherwise e.g. the Stereolab reissues
― out-of-print LaserDisc edition (sleeve), Saturday, 13 January 2024 01:09 (eight months ago) link
Interesting – yeah, they made it worse in this case for sure.
― Wooly Bully (2005 Remaster) (morrisp), Saturday, 13 January 2024 01:10 (eight months ago) link
sometimes looking at those botched remasters in a WAV editor shows the most insane brickwalling, tens of thousands of clips per song.
is there some "pro" reasoning behind this? even as someone who is only a dabbler in home recording it seems like that would be something to avoid from a listener POV, "Loudness war" attention-grab-at-low-volume issues aside
― out-of-print LaserDisc edition (sleeve), Saturday, 13 January 2024 01:13 (eight months ago) link
btw chihuahuau thank you for all yr posts here, very educational
― out-of-print LaserDisc edition (sleeve), Saturday, 13 January 2024 01:14 (eight months ago) link
I want more A/Bs... lol
― Wooly Bully (2005 Remaster) (morrisp), Saturday, 13 January 2024 01:29 (eight months ago) link
^^Sounds like a new thread idea...
― an icon of a worried-looking, long-haired, bespectacled man (C. Grisso/McCain), Saturday, 13 January 2024 02:21 (eight months ago) link
I can’t figure out why CDs from the ‘90s, including old favorites, sounds so muddy to me now, in comparison to modern discs (when played in the same player). Are they mastered differently now?
Late to this, but yes, mastering is different, and I think it comes down to a matter of taste. I have the opposite experience where I think most pop music is now mastered with a grating top end and upper midrange. When I burned a compilation of "singles" from the 2010s (basically stuff from albums or even artists I don't like that much beyond the one song), I ended up re-EQing the top end and upper midrange the same way across the board, taking out several decibels in almost every case. I think this kind of boost was becoming more prevalent around the mid-'90s and it was especially bad during the end of the '90s through the mid-'00s. It also seemed to coincide with brickwall compression. All of those things aren't quite as bad anymore but it's still there on most music today. I don't like it because I think it's unnatural - to me, it blatantly sounds like someone spiking the treble and I find it irritating. As soon as I smooth out that top end, it's no longer grating and it typically brings out the vocals - voices sound more natural and I even have an easier time making out the song's lyrics.
I think there's a common notion that boosting the treble brings out "more detail," but it's pretty deceptive. Crank up the "sharpness" feature on your television - some people say that's more detail too, but the picture looks unnatural and terrible to me.
Part of me also wonders if the problem is compounded by iPods/phones and ear buds becoming so prevalent over the past 20 years - I hear this all the time from otolaryngologists and neurotologists, but it's stunning how hearing problems have become much more common with even teenagers having the kind of issues you'd expect from someone much, much older. When your hearing is damaged, the first thing that goes is the upper frequencies, and there's even a running joke of sorts among engineers that there's a "sweet spot" they can boost that older clients will approve because that's where they've lost their hearing after years of performing without ear protection.
― birdistheword, Saturday, 13 January 2024 07:40 (eight months ago) link