Rock & Roll Hall Of Fame Nominees 2024

I never know what to think about these nominee lists. How would you even choose, on what basis?

In this case, I think I'd go Jane's Addiction solely on the literal basis of "which of these is the most rock 'n' roll?" Even more than G'n'R, I think Jane's is the last great "rock band" in the way I grew up understanding that phrase, very much encompassing sex and drugs. In discussions about Jane's on Bandsplain and 60 Songs, there were a lot of references to how scary Jane's seemed to teen listeners at the time. To the degree that the phrase "rock 'n' roll" means anything, I think it needs an edge of menace and vice.

(by which standard obviously Ozzy also qualifies, but I'm OK with him being in already with Sabbath)

I’d also go with Jane’s, I guess (and I’m not even much of a fan). I’m sure some of the other artists listed are deserving… but of those whose work I’m familiar with enough to have an informed opinion, I would be lukewarm on.

(I clearly don’t belong in the Grammar Hall of Fame, based on that post…)

Man, the dubbing on Frampton on this

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L6_yZouoe6Q

I honestly don't understand the case for O'Connor canonically. Lion and the Cobra & I Do Not Want great records no doubt...but that's two albums with four hits if we're being stingy and six if we're being generous.

As I have with the Baseball HOF, my thinking has moved more in the direction of peak value than career value--I'd almost put O'Connor in for album #2 (and its two incredible singles) alone.

Nobody’s perfect but anyone who fought the church like Sinead did has my vote.

Was just going to say, if you also subscribe to the "character counts" drift that the baseball HOF is undergoing--a much dicier proposition with pop music, I'd say--then O'Connor also gets major credit for that whole ordeal, both for what she initially did and how she handled the fallout.

xp otm - refusing to play the game in order to stand up for your principles, especially to speak up for people who needed the help when the rest of the world refused to listen, that alone is more than deserving. (Definitely can't say that about a few of the other nominees.)

Totally agree with that. But also lol at the idea of "character counts" in the RRHOF, I don't know how many past inductees would make that cut.

Doesn't quite work, does it? "Goodbye, Jerry Lee Lewis; hello, England Dan & John Ford Coley." (About whom I know nothing--they seemed like nice people.)

England Dan ate a guy once

I listened to a whole England Dan/John Ford Coley album earlier this week, it rocked harder than I expected/wanted it to

You'd really love to induct them tonight.

England Dan & JFC first played together in the '60s Texas Garage/Psych bands Theze Few and Southwest F.O.B.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pkEtNydb-RA

Peter Frampton, I'm sorry. This is supposed to be your shining moment.

tipsy mothra totally otm re jane’s - super hard band to rep for in 2024, maybe one of the most ‘you had to be there’ acts ever? (‘There’ being 1988-1991 precisely)

also they have done their legacy no favours - although i would never begrudge career musicians paying the mortgage however they gotta - i think there is a stated intention to try and claw back their rep a bit and the most recent shows have been pretty strong

anyway i still kinda love them despite everything

Eric B & Rakim don't have a large catalog and honestly most of their reputation is based on some amazing singles, however Rakim is one of the handful of rappers who really affected a fundamental change in the musical approach and structure of how people rapped, they absolutely must be in the HoF if it intends to take hip hop seriously.

As someone who missed that window, Jane's Addiction seemed like a somehow even lamer RHCP.

xpost Janes are to alt rock as the Doors were to classic rock, and maybe unfashionable for the same reasons now

I wrote a long thing about Jane's a few years ago that sums up why they're an instant vote for me. And why they're very fucked up and I can understand why a lot of people might hate them, especially Perry.

For the “fame” element it’s Mariah and Oasis.

For the “rock ‘n roll” attitude of disturbing the neighbours and kicking ass element it’s Sinead, Oasis, Jane’s Addiction, Eric B & Rakim and Ozzy I guess.

For career longevity (that’s probably a factor?) I guess it’s Cher, Mariah and Ozzy that that continued to stay in the limelight the longest?

I assume Sade is for the whole band not just Sade Adu…right?

Ozzy solo is fucking ridiculous, and the two non-Eric Avery Jane’s Addiction albums are so wretched that they should disqualify them

fwiw this is the radio concert that convinced teenaged me to go see the frampton band. (which turned out to be a different band than the one on this tape, but whatever.) i bet this gives that england dan / john ford coley lp a run for its money.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d4E1bGBvTns

damn that's a really smokin set

the two non-Eric Avery Jane’s Addiction albums are so wretched that they should disqualify them

I've never bothered to listen to anything past Ritual, and tbh Ritual is only half-great. So yeah, on the basis of catalog Jane's is also a hard case to make. But Nothing's Shocking, I mean ... definitely in my personal canon of perfect rock records, if not in the HOF's.

Jane’s for sheer impact, for me anyway

^through with Sergio

Mariah belongs on her own merits, Oasis like Siegbran says, for the fame factor, I’m only a mild appreciator but they were absolutely epochal for a certain UK generation.

Tribe should be in by any metric. I don’t feel strongly about anyone else

The UK can have its own rock n roll hall with Oasis and Blur and other BritPop bands lost to time.

Yeah, I agree with milo; Oasis have no place in a US-based Hall of Fame; they're one-hit wonders.

Oasis had multiple Modern Rock hits and several too 10 albums in the States

Oasis was huge in the US for a while, and I still hear "Champagne Supernova" and "Wonderwall" way more than I want to.

But even more than with Jane's Addiction, most people including me can't tell you about anything beyond two albums.

only two Oasis matter

Oasis albums

My argument for Cher:

1) At least two great Sonny & Cher singles, "I Got You Babe" and "Baby Don't Go"--probably one or two more.

2) Cher in the '70s: garish and kind of ridiculous, but hugely popular in the middle of the decade, with (I think) two #1s.

3) Her later disco success.

4) Combine those three, and she's set Elton-like Billboard records in the longevity department.

4) Culturally: huge, in a bunch of different ways.

I wouldn't dispute that Oasis were huge here I just hate them. My only standard for RNR HOF admission is "do I think they were cool."

(xpost) Actually, Cher had three #1s in the '70s--didn't realize "Gypsys, Tramps & Thieves" made #1. (For a change, not my mistake; that's the way it's spelled.)

I like Cher a lot - I don't really like any of Cher's music, but as a personality and for the movies I've seen, she's pretty great.

I'm not a big Oasis fan, but my partner loves them and I got to know their music better that way. Had they imploded in, say 1996, their recorded legacy would've been short but sweet: two strong albums accompanied by a stream of equally strong non-LP cuts (mostly B-sides) from the same time. I'm reluctant to call them great - for starters, they sound a little too derivative - but that initial burst of recordings still sound pretty good and I enjoy them when they're on. That whole stretch afterwards when they put out five more albums and change is the pits. I still have a 2003 issue of Mojo that has the results of their annual readers poll - they were particularly harsh towards Oasis, so I get the feeling they wore out their welcome even in the UK. But they had a huge moment, and I don't really like the idea or the implication that the HOF should be U.S.-centric - if they were massive in Britain, that should still count for a lot. (With that in mind, I'd sooner induct Blur, Suede and Pulp, but none of them broke through in the U.S. so I doubt they'll ever get nominated under iHeart's watch.)

Also, this is awesome:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R3Vr2C9nyHI

Totally forgot my favourite Sonny & Cher single: "The Beat Goes On."

xp @6:10 Ugh, Liam....

oh yes Cher definitely

Cher does not belong no way

also what would be the rationale for Sonny not going in? he actually wrote, produced, and arranged those hits. if it was the acting Hall of Fame, Cher would have my vote but she's not a particularly great singer and if you look at the list of snubs in that other poll it's pretty hard to make an argument for her

(With that in mind, I'd sooner induct Blur, Suede and Pulp, but none of them broke through in the U.S. so I doubt they'll ever get nominated under iHeart's watch.)

I'd induct the Smiths before any of them

(xpost) I think it's easy to separate her from Sonny: his window of making music of lasting value is two years or three years, and then he ceases to be of any interest. I take your point about him writing and arranging those records, but that's far outweighed by Cher's musical career after Sonny & Cher. (I said her "disco success," but what I meant was what her success on dance charts in the '90s and '00s, less what she did in the late '70s--although there was "Take Me Home.") What you say about her singing might or might not be true, but that's kind of a subjective call.

What you say about her singing might or might not be true, but that's kind of a subjective call


I think the fact you wrote this sentence instead of arguing against means you know.

the entire hall is subjective.

she's a genuinely great actress

I didn't even know Ozzy was in Black Sabbath until I was a teen, as I was a late bloomer to all forms of heavy rock.

embarrassed to say I found out when I borrowed one of dad's old Sabbath records (who, btw, he didn't even like, so I never gave them back), and saw his name on it and said...what, the "Perry Mason" singer guy?

weird that was the first song I thought of, but it was in fact the first one of his I heard knowingly.

every time people talked about "Crazy Train" I couldn't figure out what song they were talking about, and kept mistakenly thinking it was "Have a Cigar" because the way Roger Waters sings 'gravy train' sounded like 'crazy train' to my terrible ears.

nobody would have believed 13-year old me and 43-year old me are related

This might've been my first real exposure to Ozzy - like I didn't know his music or what he even sounded like when he just talked until they did this post-9/11 bit on Conan:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F9QoZgW-Qa0

the making breakfast scene on Decline of Western Civilization was definitely the origin of his transformation into America's loveably addled rock dad

I think the first time I heard Crazy Train was when erstwhile ilxor hstencil performed it karaoke in like 2002.

I was a kid at the time, but I remember when No More Tears came out and it was about as big on Rock Radio as contemporary releases like the Use Your Illusions, The Black Album, Nevermind, and Ten.

"Crazy Train," "No More Tears," and that Lita Ford duet were the only Ozzy songs I knew for a long time.

yeah, "No More Tears" earned massive MTV airplay during the Year of Nirvana.

pretty legendary performance of No More Tears on the Live and Loud video too that I think got play on MTV

It's funny to hear people a little younger than me talk about Ozzy or Sabbath. I became aware of Sabbath not long before "Neon Knights" came out, definitely knew of Ozzy and mistakenly assumed it was him singing on that. Vividly remember when Randy Rhoads died because it happened in Florida where I lived and iirc Ozzy's next show was supposed to be in Miami.

Yep!

"Close My Eyes Forever" is Ozzy's only AT40 hit in America btw

"Close My Eyes Forever" is Ozzy's only AT40 hit in America btw

Not true! "Mama, I'm Coming Home" hit #28. (Lemmy was probably exaggerating, but he said he made more money from writing the lyrics to that song than he did from anything Motörhead-related.)

Oh, missed it.

9-year-old me obsessively listening to pop radio was a huge “Mama, I’m Coming Home” fan and never heard “No More Tears” that I can recall until listening to it right now. Doesn’t sound familiar though it certainly would fit right in with Use Your Illusion’s songs

was very hard to divest that song from Johnson and Johnson products

No More Tears was definitely everywhere for a really long time after it was released, it was one of the inner circle staples of hard rock radio. And unlike a lot of tracks which received considerable airplay in that genre at the time, it's still does really sound good.

I did scan through Wyman's list, and the guy is a pretty lousy writer based on that. Even when I agree with the most superficial points he's making, he offers nothing of interest to back any of it up.

"In my many, many years as a writer and editor, nobody — nobody — has ever mentioned Osbourne’s solo work to me.

because you are a herb and people do not wanna hang with you and know they'd be wasting their breath

no use for this guy

There's no getting around the dubious concept of a rank listicle, but to Wyman's credit, he does make something out of it - forget the inductee assessments, the meat of that thing is really the ridiculous history behind the Hall of Fame that's detailed in piecemeal. Just an excerpt drawn from a handful of entries:

Joe Hagan says the hall of fame was first conceived by a cable entrepreneur, Bruce Brandwen, who outlined the basic structure of the hall, proposed an annual TV show, and enlisted Ahmet Ertegun...Ertegun and Jann Wenner conspired together to wait out the five-year contract Brandwen had, and then took the organization over. Wenner later dismissed Brandwen as part of “a bunch of hucksters.” The inevitable lawsuit was settled out of court. Bruce Conforth, the hall’s first curator, told me that an early benefit concert featuring the Who and billed as a benefit for the hall actually raised money to pay off that settlement...

From the start, Conforth says, said, his work was hampered by a division between the Cleveland folks, who’d put up the money and had the best interests of Cleveland and the hall’s success in mind, and the New York people, most of whom didn’t want the hall in Cleveland in the first place. “The people from New York thought their shit didn’t stink,” Conforth says. “They were rich New York elite artsy-fartsy hip people who knew what was going on. They figured the Cleveland people were a bunch of rubes who couldn’t tell the time of day. The Cleveland people hated the New York people because they didn’t give the Cleveland people any respect and were always telling Cleveland people what to do, even though the Cleveland folks came up with all the money. The two boards really, really hated each other.”

I asked Conforth for an example of how the Cleveland–New York division manifested itself. He said that one day shortly after he started work he was abruptly summoned to meet with Wenner, so he dutifully boarded a plane to New York. “It was an official audience,” Conforth says drily. “It was at the new Rolling Stone’s offices [on Sixth Avenue]. Jann’s office was in the corner; it has glass windows on two sides; quite large, but sparsely decorated, with a huge desk in the corner. I was allowed to enter the inner sanctum. There’s Jann, barefoot. He sits down behind this huge desk, puts his bare feet upon the desk, looks at me, pulls out a cigarette, lights it, and says, ‘Now do you see where the real power lies?’”

Conforth, the curator, is a highly entertaining interview. He was a scholar who’d done his dissertation at Indiana on the San Francisco scene. He turned out not to be a good fit for the hall. One mistake he made, he allows, is requesting to work in Cleveland, which he thought made sense at the time but led to many of his decisions being overruled from New York. Even two decades later he remains amused at his tenure. It was plain from the start, he says, what the hall of fame’s mission was: “Here’s another way we get to masturbate in public and show the world how great we are.” The difficulties he had working for Wenner & Co. were such an open secret by the time he left that he received a call from the producers of the Oprah Winfrey Show. They wanted him to appear for a segment on “When Dream Jobs Become a Nightmare.”

only besting his placing for Stevie Nicks at 255, echoes Pauline Kael's infamously blinkered "Nixon couldn't have won, no one I know voted for him" remark.

Point of order: she never said that. Neither did Susan Sontag, whom that quote is also sometimes attributed to.