Rolling Jazz Thread 2024

Why do you people hate fun vocalese?

Recently listened to Mark Turner on Pablo Held's podcast, and he was saying how approaches learning to solo on an unfamiliar standard or new tune by soloing in half notes first (and demonstrating on the piano).

Why do you people hate fun vocalese?

I know they're two different things, but there's a reason scat singing and scat porn have the same name. Shut up and learn an instrument.

Never change, ILM.

Yeah I have also heard people say "Just play the root of every chord and hold it, then do the same with the third, then the fifth, then the seventh etc." Then switch between them but in whole/half notes. That makes sense to me. I'm very pro-chord tones and very anti-scales.

Yeah. CST is kind of a blight

Jamey Abersold ruined a generation of musicians imo

It has its place, it has its use but it really… maybe I should just relink Ethan Iverson’s posts about Jeff Goldblum’s jazz album.

https://ethaniverson.com/received-wisdom-jeff-goldblum-chord-scales-the-ireal-book-and-kamasi-washington/

https://ethaniverson.com/received-wisdom-jeff-goldblum-chord-scales-the-ireal-book-and-kamasi-washington/

― The Ginger Bakersfield Sound (James Redd and the Blecchs), Thursday, March 7, 2024 3:16 PM (two minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

This is good, but I think the scalar/blues dichotomy he sets up is totally false. Bach isn't scalar either, and neither is Stravinsky, and Charlie Parker was listening to and absorbing all that stuff too.

Chord-scale playing isn't bad because it's not blues, it's bad because it's not musical.

It’s not, um, idiomatic

Other than deliberately modal jazz I don't think any good music has ever been written by applying scales to chords.

I mean I could probably rant about this forever, but part of the reason G Lydian sounds like shit in Out of Nowhere is not just that it's not "bluesy," but that the sharp 4 doesn't really have any obvious relationship to the chord that comes next, either as a chord tone or as a leading tone. But there are ways you could make it work! Like resolve the sharp 4 before you hit the next chord. You could even do that in a "bluesy" way. You can make any note work. But not by meandering around through a chord scale.

Btw per the self-deprecation thread, I appreciated that Mark Turner stated "I'm not talented, which just means I need to put the work into every single aspect of playing." He didn't say he sucks or pales in comparison to anybody, just that he knows people who are great with less effort, people who the music just seems to flow through.

Other than deliberately modal jazz I don't think any good music has ever been written by applying scales to chords.

WEREN’T

Well yeah, and to the extent they were, they knew how to do it interesting ways because they already knew how to play music, how to create a melody, how to phrase, etc. So using the mode was like an interesting experimental limitation rather than a jumping off point.

I appreciated that Mark Turner stated "I'm not talented, which just means I need to put the work into every single aspect of playing." He didn't say he sucks or pales in comparison to anybody, just that he knows people who are great with less effort

There’s an episode of Columbo where Falk says something similar about detective work

There's some Mark Turner stuff I really like, specifically the Fly Trio

kudos p4k I guess but this amaro freitas record is nice

Saw that the saxophonist Wally Shoup died recently. Always liked this disc he played on with Nels Cline and Chris Corsano:

https://freemusicarchive.org/music/Nels_ClineWally_ShoupChris_Corsano/ImmolationImmersion

kudos p4k I guess but this amaro freitas record is nice

It's really good. Lots of guest players, too: Jeff Parker, Brandee Younger, Shabaka, Hamid Drake. I've been a fan of his since his second album (this is #4); he really sounds like no one else out there, a kind of middle ground between McCoy Tyner and Matt Shipp but with a pounding heavy northern Brazilian sense of rhythm.

I’m only halfway through my first spin but it’s really good so far

Chris DeVille wrote a cool piece for Stereogum about becoming a jazz fan, pegged to the James Brandon Lewis/Messthetics album that comes out this week.

Is it strange that reading about the JBL/Messthetics stuff always gets me excited, and then I find the tracks totally unremarkable?

And i like JBL!

I was just thinking the same thing

the Freitas album is sick, thanks for mentioning it

Listened to the Chris Potter/John Patitucci/Brad Mehldau/Brian Blade record a few times while traveling yesterday, it's great. I wonder if it will seem a little too straight-ahead for people in 2024 - no gimmicks, no big concept, just a record of originals played by the masters. It almost has a coziness to me because of that, feels sorta like a '90s record, but they're all just so in tune with each other and confident and killing, it's a pleasure to hear.

A jazzbo friend of mine said he thought it was kind of boring and by the numbers by their standards, but I'll def give it a listen.

I constantly confuse John Patitucci with John Petrucci, and wonder why all these jazz dudes are hanging with the Dream Theater dork.

I think that's what I'm getting at...like, yes, it is in a sense (especially if you're looking for something that *sounds* new or not like other jazz records). But their standards are so high that a 'boring' record from them is still beautiful. The details of their playing together are always worth hearing, and they make it look so easy.

no gimmicks, no big concept, just a record of originals played by the masters

This is almost exactly how I described it when writing it up for Stereogum this morning.

Aging rock act on new album: This time we wanted to go back to the basics

Listened to the Chris Potter/John Patitucci/Brad Mehldau/Brian Blade record

Scanning too quickly I read that as John Petrucci for a second and was like, uh.... then I saw Josh made the same mistake.

Just four guys in a woodshed

Throw John Pizzarelli in there

I had it on in a rental car when I was driving some co-workers somewhere, and there were moments when I could hear how it might sound a little 'smooth' to a civilian, and I wanted to say "no you don't understand, these guys are legends in the game, Brian Blade is crushing it here".

My latest Stereogum column is up. I wrote about the Black Art Jazz Collective and reviewed albums by Alice Coltrane, Charles Lloyd, James Brandon Lewis & the Messthetics, Chris Potter, Ivo Perelman, Cassie Kinoshi, Amaro Freitas, Fire!, Ill Considered and Cornelia Nilsson.

Some of you will have seen this already, but there's a Gofundme to help the great Steve Beresford out as he's going through a tough time. It's awful that a genius musician like Steve should be in such a position. An absolute pillar of the improvised music community who has played with everyone from Zorn to The Slits and is hugely supportive of younger musicians.

https://www.gofundme.com/f/musician-needs-a-hand

Would also recommend the latest album by his piano trio with Valentina Magaletti and Pieropaulo Martino - came out towards the end of last year so slipped through the tracks a little, but it's a terrific set.
https://valentinamagaletti.bandcamp.com/album/naize

I wish the Messthetics album had more improvisation and/or funkier. I think Anthony Pirog is doing a Danny Gatton thing and at the risk of revoking my DC credentials Gatton didn’t do much for me, skilled as he was.

Drummer I've been following for a while, Steve Lyman, has a record coming out with Donnie McCaslin, Jimmy Chamberlin (yes, the pumpkins drummer) Austin White and others

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zJe-fGIQL5U

(note, track is quiet for like the first 45-60 seconds)

He's a crazy good drummer, interesting to hear him put his multi-tempo concept thing into a musical context. It's too bad the drums sound kinda shitty on these tracks (not the playing, just the mixing). :(

Yeah I agree it's not the ideal sound - his drums sound much better in his videos imo!

Also, he apparently claims he is *not* using the "vector system" on that track, which just makes me thing maybe I don't really understand what the vector system is, lol

Enjoyed then new Mehldau/Blade/Potter/Pattituci a lot on first listen, although I got a bit fatigued after the first 3 tracks. Very strong spirit of Wayne Shorter coming through in the compositions and playing.

The Charles Lloyd record is a beauty, what a brilliant rhythm section (Moran/Grenadier/Blade). Haven't heard Moran in a minute, especially as a sideperson, and with the Potter record it's just a bounty of Blade.

90 minutes though, whew. This easily could have (and should have imo) been two albums.

Lloyd put out three albums the other year, and I don't think that experiment was particularly successful — Blue Note probably didn't want this one split up.

Ah, makes sense.

There are a lot of vibey tracks on here and I'm into that, but 'Booker's Garden' is a highlight. Some really crazy playing around the pulse, but so locked-in and together too.