Bad Brains vs. Black Flag

you know what kira is actually the best thing about black flag

this is the truest thing by far -- Ginn is just not very good! he plays a lot, but he never gets any better -- it's not like he's incompetent, but his ideas aren't great -- he's at his best when he just gets sludgy, I think that's where his heart really is. his fast shit is really not good HC! just imo obv, for many people that music is good but to me like there's just so much better hardcore from that time. Flag has iconic imagery & a charismatic if lunkheaded frontman, real good live at their peak, but, like, nah really. But Kira's project Dos is really good! The comeback album, Dos y Dos, is just wonderful -- meandering, contemplative, just cool and weird -- two basses basically doing counterpoint pieces!

Dukwoski really gets slighted by history he's as much a figure in the band's history as Ginn, or almost

me myself, I'd argue the First Four Years stuff is the most vital stuff they did, pre Rollins

also agreed that Ginn is the ultimate eyes bigger than his stomach guitar player of all time, though sometimes it works great

Slip It In is my favorite album and it's mostly because Kira and Bill are on fire throughout.

I also love Dos, ftr

While both bands had lots of members with Bad Brains there really is only one classic lineup.

Joan Crawford's abiding hatred of Greg Ginn, the Beach Boys and CCR is a gift that keeps on giving. Why does he hate California lol

The best thing Black Flag did was basically create Indie touring in the US. And Dukowski did that. I agree with Joan Crawford Loves Chachi’s take on their music. But I think the reason they will always be thought of as an influential band is their business model.

"me myself, I'd argue the First Four Years stuff is the most vital stuff they did, pre Rollins"

for me too. that stuff is awesome. i really don't like rollins. he had a great look and stage presence but - and this might be weird to say about a punk singer - he had a terrible voice. its just ugly in a bad way. there were so many great hardcore singers. he was not one of them.

i have some nostalgic fondness for Loose Nut. i used to play that album a lot back then. and i saw them on that tour or the tour after. that was the time that they punished the crowd by having painted willie and gone open the show. ugh. i went with my friends from the straightedge band Wide Awake and my friend who played guitar in that band worshipped greg ginn. he stood as close to ginn as he could just so he could watch him play. they were fun though. they knew how to do it live for sure.

i also think that rollins was just bad timing-wise. awkward. clunky. probably why he gravitated to slower, sludgier stuff where he could be more, uh, free. there were non-musician hardcore singers who just killed it speed-wise. and i still listen to them. can't say i listen to black flag much unless its the really old stuff. (damaged definitely a cool bomb blast of a record but i can't help but think how much cooler it would have been with someone else singing.....)

i've always preferred the 81 Dez demos of the Damaged stuff, despite the sound quality

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kGJGTEWizgo

way better.

Hey “Don’t Bother Me” is Bad Brains’ number four track on Spotify. That’s the leveling effect of streaming working correctly! A song that makes me feel like a gallon of Sherwin-Williams jittering in the paint mixer.

Joan Crawford's abiding hatred of Greg Ginn, the Beach Boys and CCR is a gift that keeps on giving. Why does he hate California lol

I like Saint Vitus and Megadeth and Slayer!

probably hates Hampton Hawes too...

i think i missed out on the ccr hate and i don't even want to know about it...

I just can't stand the way John Fogerty sings, and he does sing a lot on CCR records, so I don't really enjoy them. They're fine. Hampton Hawes is groovy no doubt, I love west coast jazz.

but ppl who love CCR will really get very excited making the case for them. not as severely as beach boys nerds, who are the actual worst, but creedence dudes are very "how could anyone not love creedence?"

Hampton Hawes is groovy no doubt, I love west coast jazz.

If nothing else, you owe it to yourself to read his autobiography, Raise Up Off Me, which is one of the great jazz books and one of the great drug books, all at once.

Fwiw my Black Flag ordering was assuming The First Four Years > Damaged > those other records

(I love CCR)

Tbh you can blame Lydia Lunch for that

Hey JCLC, thanks for the Dos tip, they're great!
Such a free and joyful sound... and I love Kira's voice too... good stuff...

Kira sings on this goofy cover! (I prefer it to the original)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ov0zEYZakLI

Ha!