thread of the inescapable Espresso - Sabrina Carpenter

It reminds me of Calvin Harris/Pharrell/Katy Perry's 'Feels' somehow but it's better than that.

it's no "stars are blind", feels very post-"say so". it's about as good as a song in this sort of mode can be but that's just 'solid'

me espresso" sounds like a lyric written by a swedish pop music genius who doesn't speak fluent english and thats why its the song of summer
— rebecca jennings (@rebexxxxa) April 24, 2024

it’s driving me crazy that this only quotes the last two words of the full lyric, which is “that’s that me espresso.” which is even more charmingly ESL imo

I prefer it to the other artists’ songs named above, but (like dyl) I’d rate “Feather” higher. Nice groove in both tracks…

the melody of this is really basic but in a good way, it's really easy to sing along to this immediately. Carpenter herself seems to be blandly blank but the charm of this is all those weird lyrics which don't feel focus-grouped for TikTok unlike a lot of other pop idiosyncracies of late

(I mean, they absolutely were designed to be viral like all pop in 2024 is, they just don't feel so obvious to my ears)

nashwan otm, this does feel very funk wav bounce. but carpenter has a lot of personality, and it's a very solid melody.

Pitchfork pays tribute: https://pitchfork.com/reviews/tracks/sabrina-carpenter-espresso/

there is a real dearth of good-quality, straight-ahead pop bangers on the charts right now so this will do nicely

can’t decide if it’s more fun to think about as the more conventional, “that’s that me: espresso” or the talk-like-a-pirate version: “that’s that, me espresso”

I’ll have to play this a second time. The first time, I thought “this is OK, but why is anyone rhapsodic about it?”

I hadn’t really thought about it much until now but like“That’s that me, espresso” in my mind is part extra syllable fudge to make the lyrics scan, and a combination of two daft nut cromulent for pop song phrases “That’s me! espresso” (I’m like espresso, you can’t sleep) and like…” that’s that me” like “oh well, that’s that, you know what I’m like” but I prefer your interpretation.

Daft but cromulent

this just seems like such a mediocre "Say So" rehash! ugh!!

this time without Dr. Luke tho

Yeah this song is automatically way better because Dr Luke isn't involved.

really boring i thought; wish it had a chorus

i hate dr. luke too but that's just not true xp

fuck Doja Cat too while we're here

Is this really the only Sabrina Carpenter thread? I thought ILX’s pop-loving denizens would be all over her. I haven’t heard her early stuff yet, but her latest album Emails I Can’t Send is chock full of club bangers. “Read Your Mind” is every bit as good as “Feather” and “Espresso”!

btw, what is up with record companies releasing sped-up versions of hit singles as b-sides? They did that with “Feather” and “Espresso”. Like, is that a thing in pop nowadays? Do people really want to hear that? I want some extended dance mixes, dammit!

the sped-up version thing is a TikTok phenomenon aiui

Dan Charnas's piece this week that uses this as a hook to do a look back was I thought very good, though a few folks haven't felt she actually sounds like this:

https://slate.com/culture/2024/06/sabrina-carpenter-espresso-song-summer-boogie-post-disco.html

It's a great read

Feel like a millions years behind the zetigeist on this one and only caught up after seeing that article shared around, and first impressions are very positive. If it’s not the sound of the summer it’s at the very least the sound that’s going round and round my head tonight as I struggle to get to sleep (due to unrelated reasons).

I like the song and that essay, I'm not sure the song is quite the ideal vehicle for the essay, but whatever. "Feather" is good too, I guess I should listen to the album.

If “Espresso” sounds like boogie music I need to listen to more boogie music.

its not as good. as good boogie music.

"I'm not sure the song is quite the ideal vehicle for the essay, but whatever."

it was a good excuse to talk about old music the author likes though. and its good music to give attention to. its totally internet-hip stuff though. club-hip. collector-hip. so, not forgotten by a long shot no matter what you call it. and that's the thing. there are 80s tracks that you could call electro, disco, post-disco, funk, boogie, dance, club, AND r&b. call it what you like. just don't call me late for dinner!

Unfortunately her just-released new single “Please Please Please” (not a James Brown cover) is a bit “mid”, as the kids say. But it was cute seeing her with her real-life boyfriend in the video.

I like "Espresso" fine but find it weirdly forgettable. As in, I literally have trouble remembering how it goes when I'm not listening to it. The melodic range feels too limited, maybe.

I like the song and that essay, I'm not sure the song is quite the ideal vehicle for the essay

That's my only cavil. "Espresso" does not sound like early '80s R&B.

I also thought mapping Anderson .Paak's "Am I Wrong" over D Train was maybe a little bit of a stretch, but whatever it takes to introduce new listeners to boogie, all for it

ha, I did the same.

For some reason my brain keeps associating Espresso more with 90s stuff like Return of the Mack, Fastlove, and several singles from Canadian boyband SoulDecision (like Faded and Oooh It's Kinda Crazy) than 80s Boogie.

for me it's peak Aeroplane/Tensnake nu-disco era nostalgia

if you listen to any of the remixes of espresso you will note that nobody picked up on any early 80s vibe and they just do boring house stuff to it.

My first thought about “Espresso” was that maybe it means CRJ can have another hit. It feels somewhat in her wheelhouse to me, which also obv derives significantly from ‘80s pop.

Or Magdalena Bay, even more.

I like "Espresso" fine but find it weirdly forgettable. As in, I literally have trouble remembering how it goes when I'm not listening to it.

I agree with this... for a big hit, it is certainly not an "earworm" (at least for me).

truly, a slate editor was so desperate, or is so happy that Charnas is writing for them, that they did not say to him "yeah, I know you wanna make this point, but this song does not support your thesis" as they should have.

I have heard it a bunch of times, but it hasn't lodged itself into my consciousness…the way, for instance, "Million Dollar baby" has.

I've completely forgotten how it goes too! I just get 'Feels' in my head instead plus a couple of other things, but probably just one conscious choice to hear it will make it stick.

if you listen to any of the remixes of espresso you will note that nobody picked up on any early 80s vibe and they just do boring house stuff to it

I think all commissioned remixes of pop songs are contractually bound to be extremely unadventurous these days

Ha. Let me join the group here who do not think "Espresso" is rooted in the music Charnas discusses

i would like "espresso" way more if it reminded me even remotely of evelyn king's "i'm in love" like wtf

i must be doing something wrong because for a song that is constantly being proclaimed 'inescapable' i'm finding it... remarkably easy to escape? i hear these proclamations more often than the song. granted pop music culture is weak rn and there's rarely anything i would use that word for nowadays

that piece was an interesting read but would agree with others' already stated misgivings about it. other nitpicks: i know he wanted to go into the reggie lucas narrative but "never knew love like this" is quite a poor example of a song that 'never knew love on ... most pop stations' given that it was actually bigger on the pop charts (including r&r's airplay-only chart!) than it was on the r&b charts! also i really wish pieces like this would stop talking about the early 80s like a now-unthinkably culturally segregated bygone era when in fact several parts of the last decade were easily just as bad if not even worse in that regard. nearly always overlooked in these retrospectives is the fact that actually a non-negligible number of black artists were still crossing over during this time -- they were just adult contemporary singers, whose hits are now generally dismissed as irrelevant pablum or fatally compromised for mass acceptance among white folks. (incidentally, "never knew love like this before" is precisely one of these adult contemporary crossovers -- it was riding high on that chart about a month before performing similarly on the pop chart.) i don't say all this to suggest that things were not bad back then -- they were -- but instead to point out that, well, crossover from the adult contemporary side of things is almost impossible for black artists now and has been for quite some time! meanwhile crossover from black radio itself remains nearly negligible aside from your jack harlows + there are basically three black artists who are 'native' to the top 40/'mainstream' ecosystem (lil nas x/lizzo/doja cat), all of whom will be on shaky ground w/ programmers in an instant if they fail to deliver hits (two of them are arguably there already), unlike artists like dua lipa and taylor swift who can pump out straight duds (in the former's case) or superstar indulgences (in the latter's) consistently and still coast directly into medium rotation at minimum

and yes like come on this song/artist is not worthy of this connection to great black art at all. ffs this woman makes 'big black cock' jokes during live performances of her ariana grande-imitating first payola'd semi-hit, idk if she's just kinda dumb-slash-racist or if she's angling for a thinkpiece outrage cycle like it's still 2014

btw, what is up with record companies releasing sped-up versions of hit singles as b-sides? They did that with “Feather” and “Espresso”. Like, is that a thing in pop nowadays? Do people really want to hear that? I want some extended dance mixes, dammit!

― Mr. Snrub, Thursday, June 6, 2024 8:09 AM (yesterday)

the sped-up version thing is a TikTok phenomenon aiui

― rob, Thursday, June 6, 2024 8:11 AM (yesterday)

hardly anyone actually wants to hear these. tiktok is the excuse for their existence, but it's really aimed at too-online stans who clamor for more 'versions' to be released so they can purchase more files they won't listen to in hopes that the song will chart higher. this was basically imported from kpop fandom and is now used routinely for artists with highly engaged online fandoms -- artists like nicki minaj, grande, swift. the same driving force is behind the release of endless 'variants' of physical albums, all containing one unique bonus track and an 'alternate cover' or some other such garbage. a good number of these are being purchased by ppl who lack the equipment to even play them but snatch them up anyway out of compulsion to collect or a misplaced desire to 'support my favorite artist uwu'. it's predatory and beyond disgusting. in korea a lot of these end up clogging up donation centers, and in some cases so many end up in those locations that they then end up in landfills. i suspect the same will happen here too before long, tho there are some signs of backlash. we luv capitalism!

but yes anyway those 'versions' are just there so stans chomping at the bit to buy more copies of the same digital files they won't be listening to through the files themselves can do so. the sped up versions aren't *really* meant to be seeding tiktok since it is trivially easy for sped up/slowed down versions of hits to end up as sounds on tiktok regardless of whether they're officially released. many of the songs that become hits in part due to such tiktok sounds only end up having these versions released after the fact or not at all. the artists pre-emptively releasing these versions are 100% doing it for the paypig stans

nearly always overlooked in these retrospectives is the fact that actually a non-negligible number of black artists were still crossing over during this time -- they were just adult contemporary singers, whose hits are now generally dismissed as irrelevant pablum or fatally compromised for mass acceptance among white folk

Look no further than Charnas' own piece. He mentions James Ingram's hits from The Dude. Add Peabo Bryson and Bill Withers-Grover Washington, Jr. and Jeffrey Osborne and -- well, you know already.

any similarity this song might have to that era of roller boogie (or whatever) is totally neutralized by carpenter’s narcotic singing.

it reminds me more of the chiller side of bloghouse than anything charnas cites in the article. something like air france, but warmed over for mass consumption

it makes me think of bloghouse which was like, an approximation of filter house/french touch, which was a flip of chicago flipping disco and boogie records

I think the likely path comes from through that

but people have been doing that for years now ... to me the sabrina record sounds downstream from stuff like, idk, this era of max martin working with ali payami

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xqtUuHFAtzg

xp with voodoo chilli, yes, exactly, bloghouse

ngl I like the robin thicke song more, lol

this was basically imported from kpop fandom and is now used routinely for artists with highly engaged online fandoms -- artists like nicki minaj, grande, swift.

Just a point of order, Grande doesn't do this(?) There were a few "Yes, And?" remixes, but remixes are nothing new...

i like "espresso" but i wish it reminded me of air france lol

I like "Espresso" fine but find it weirdly forgettable. As in, I literally have trouble remembering how it goes when I'm not listening to it

yes! this is weird isn't it? I've heard this song like 25 times and I could not tell you what the melody is. also I'm bothered immensely by the grammatical "that's that me" lyric. what?

this thing is probably some kind of brainwashing weapon

"the grammatically incoherent "that's that me" lyric" I meant.

Do people really find the phrase “that’s that ‘me’ espresso” incoherent? It makes perfect sense to me.

Took me a while to parse it, but once it clicked it clicked.

I’ve been listening to a fan extended edit, maybe it’s a tiny bit long? Or maybe it’s still too short…

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jrD1sI_5NyU

Do people really find the phrase “that’s that ‘me’ espresso” incoherent? It makes perfect sense to me.

I get it now, written out like that

i prefer my interpretation

the talk-like-a-pirate version: “that’s that, me espresso”

― the defenestration of prog (voodoo chili), Tuesday, April 30, 2024 6:17 AM (one month ago) bookmarkflaglink

it's the second 'that' that (ha) makes no sense

or, at best, is incredibly awkward and difficult to parse

i was wondering why the production of her new one sounds so bad and hollow and ofc it's done by jack antonoff ;_;

I agree with the grammarian cited here: https://www.them.us/story/sabrina-carpenter-espresso-lyrics-analysis-meaning-explained

As Barg hears the chorus, “me” is the antecedent, and “espresso” is its appositive, as in “It’s-a me, Mario.” Under that interpretation, Carpenter isn’t claiming that some elixir known as “me espresso” is keeping her “honeybee” up at night, she’s saying that “me,” a person who could be known or described as “espresso,” is preventing the hapless horndog from getting any sleep. It’s a subtle but important distinction, and one that blows the case wide open.

Reminiscent of the controversy around “that demon life” from the Rolling Stones’ “Sway”

Hmm... I guess I disagree with the grammarian, this seems right to me:

My longtime personal theory has been that Carpenter is using “me espresso” as a purposely silly noun phrase, in which the pronoun “me” is repurposed as an adjective, as in, “You can’t sleep, and that’s because of a certain quality I possess called ‘me espresso.’” (This would not be totally unprecedented: my favorite spin instructor goes by the handle “Brittany Espresso,” and she’ll sometimes say things like, “Have another shot of Brittany espresso” in a motivational capacity during especially grueling climbs.)

Yeah I agree, contra the grammarian, that it’s a noun phrase. It’s analogous to “a case of you” from the Joni Mitchell song of that name.

(I think it would be very strange to refer to yourself as “that me”; as opposed to referring to a quality you possess as “that (me) espresso”)

xp this is such a bad explanation, is it a bit from them??

This is a pop song and we're worrying about grammar?

in this ever-changing ILM thread in which we post in?

I think the context for "that's that me" is like "that's that girl" combined with cute internet speak a la "it me!" Hence "that's that me." She could have just said something like, "yeah that's me, espresso" but it wouldn't be as goofy or memorable and we wouldn't be talking about it.

Alfred, we cannot forget from where it is that we come from

The fact that it's called "Espresso" and not "Me Espresso" makes me think that the grammarian's reading is more likely.

What will ultimately settle this will be the annoying adoption of "that's that me" as a catchphrase.

And it will seem unbelievable to us that it started here; like the thing going around now about Alanis Morissette supposedly inventing “friends with benefits.”

Gross, if true

lol I'd never thought about that but I guess it tracks. Hard to imagine she's the first one to say it, but the internet says there are no prior documented uses.

I don't know to what extent Hal Leonard-published sheet music can be counted on for an official representation of a song's lyrics, but fwiw:

https://s3.amazonaws.com/halleonard-pagepreviews/HL_DDS_2344737beMQal0HF6.png

"that's that 'me' espresso" has always made sense to me and i am impressed by both explanations in that them article seeming to get it wrong?

yeah way to make heavy weather of something that is very straightforward

yeah way to make heavy weather of something that is very straightforward

Clearly you have never really, really needed $100.

Completely baffled by the last two posts

"that's that 'me' espresso"

How is this different from the first explanation? (If there’s a 3rd interpretation, I want to hear it!)

It’s not, but ironically that article spends a lot of time describing the competing interpretations in the most unclear terms possible.

The article is kind of annoying, I just agree with the grammarian. Appositively.

I just wanted to note that it’s kind of funny that I haven’t gone out of my way to avoid this song or anything but I never heard of it before this thread declared it inescapable and I have yet to encounter it in any of the public spaces I inhabit that play music.

Oh lol, I hadn’t seen Whiney’s thread

I just wanted to note that it’s kind of funny that I haven’t gone out of my way to avoid this song or anything but I never heard of it before this thread declared it inescapable and I have yet to encounter it in any of the public spaces I inhabit that play music.

I'm thoroughly insulated; I would never have heard it without pulling it up on YouTube after reading an article about it on Slate. Then I did some research and learned that Sabrina Carpenter has five albums. I would have assumed this was her debut single.

This thread so far hasn't mentioned the little 6-note guitar figure in the pre-chorus, which a nice piece of Trevor Horn-ish cheeze and I think one of the song's key hooks.

Just saw that there's a new cabaret show called Broadway Loves Sabrina Carpenter featuring over 12 stars of Broadway performing her songs at the renowned venue 54 Below in Manhattan. Coming up in August.

To me, too she seems like some kind of stealth superstar.

Unfortunately her just-released new single “Please Please Please” (not a James Brown cover) is a bit “mid”, as the kids say. But it was cute seeing her with her real-life boyfriend in the video.

The lyrics to the new one are pretty funny

Yup and it’s very catchy/sweet. I like how it changes key as soon as the second verse : a rare pop trick iirc

the new one is just a bit too much self-aware wackiness for me, I can feel it trying to be a meme of itself