junglepussy

so i feel like it's about time junglepussy gets her own thread. her record's been around for a few months now and it's in my top 3 faves of the year

https://soundcloud.com/vice/sets/junglepussys-satisfaction-guaranteed

more JP

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AtwVdabW0GE

i had no idea junglepussy had her own thread, the album has been giving me a lot of life of late

"bling bling" is the banger

i DJed a party a couple weeks ago and played "bling bling" and everyone went OFF

i feel like if we could ratchet down the expectations game to pre-Odd Future levels, it would be easier to enthuse about this ... pretty cool underground rap

not really substantively different from the 'backpacker' stuff so maligned a decade ago but otoh that stuff was pretty unfairly hated on

Wtf does this have to do with odd future or backpacker rap? She sounds a lot more like lil kim, flow wise

nothing to do with odd future except on the timeline...in our hype-driven times, there's been a flattening effect on expectations, as if angel haze and young thug and dej loaf and chief keef and azalea banks and vince staples and tink and joey badass are all aiming for the same audience & are liable to get it—instead of having widely diverging potential audiences.

i do see a creative debt to lil kim but i also do not forecast massive success for junglepussy on lil kim's level. i mean, i'm no miss cleo, so if i'm wrong, mea culpa—I definitely didn't think Iggy Azalea had a shot pre-"Fancy." But in listening to junglepussy's music I enjoy it, but do not hear the same immediacy or undeniable talent that it takes to be that kind of pop star.

nb I've been wrong before (cf iggy) but not as often as others. imo.

i dont mean to sound unenthusiastic about her potential.

also anyone can buy a hit, so there's that aspect too

actually Tink is a good point of comparison because I've enjoyed more Junglepussy songs than Tink ones, but I feel like Tink is a ~star~ and is on the trajectory to go through the machinery and end up with something pretty major

Don't give a fuck about her commercial prospects or future success. It's just a really great album that's leagues ahead of anything mushy-mouthed tink's ever done. She probably won't ever be a star, you're right, so what?

You're probably also right about flattened expectations but that's a negative I see no use in contributing to

nah is pretty good trad underground rap, but not all that special really. im not sure i would pay that song that much attention were it not made by someone called junglepussy. bling bling IS the banger though. i do hear some lil kim in there but its not glaring or distracting. i hear a bit more rah digga than kim, esp in nah. 9/10 for the name, 7/10 for the music.

i'd pick "mi nuh care", "ready 4 action", "satisfaction guaranteed" and "picky bitch checklist" over "nah" probably, though i don't think there's an inessential song here, not even the one with tink

Just checking this out now thanks to the thread bump. "Picky Bitch Checklist" is great. Good albums need to stop falling in my lap. It's November, damn!

Wtf does this have to do with odd future or backpacker rap? She sounds a lot more like lil kim, flow wise

― lex pretend, Saturday, 15 November 2014 10:39 (7 hours ago) Permalink

Hey you asked bro

I asked no question that would have led to that answer

i answered the question, 'what does this have to do with backpacker rap' by suggesting: it basically is backpacker rap, but that shouldnt be the dirty word ppl typically ascribe to it

how is it basically backpacker rap? sonically, thematically...i don't see any point of resemblance. in terms of popularity? like there's either commercially successful rap or backpacker and nothing else?

i don't know what backpacker rap is, but i like this. is "bling bling" sampling "born to die" by lana del rey?

Interesting that this conversation is happening here (and is even remotely controversial) and not in the threads about Shabazz Palaces/Run The Jewels/Chance The Rapper, all of whom are basically backpacker rap. No one gives a shit because those divisions don't exist in the same way they did 12 years ago (mostly because it stopped being uncool for middle class college types to listen to mainstream rap).

it's also interesting that almost every low-profile female rapper ends up getting discussed outside the actual rap thread

"Nah" codes as underground rap ish to me but other stuff like "bling bling" does not, which underscores that artists these days don't have to declare allegiance to one side of the fence or the other, if we can even talk about a fence anymore.

Yeah the first Junglepussy song I listened to (about half an hour ago, in response to this thread, on Youtube) was 'Nah' and I was immediately 'wtf this beat is totally backpacker' (presence of an acoustic guitar = automatic backpacker tick for me). But her more in-your-face stuff doesn't code that way at all and I like that more - although I'm not overwhelmed by sheer force of personality in the way I am with Kim or Rah Digga, but that's okay, not many artists have that.

Also notable that one of the genres where these kinds of divisions DO exist is in post-2010 R&B and Lex has come down very heavily on one side of that particular divide, and I'm wondering whether the shadow of that debate means that he's viewing 'backpacker' here as more of an insult than Deej maybe intended.

1786 - Le nozze di Figarnkp. L

Interesting that this conversation is happening here (and is even remotely controversial) and not in the threads about Shabazz Palaces/Run The Jewels/Chance The Rapper, all of whom are basically backpacker rap. No one gives a shit because those divisions don't exist in the same way they did 12 years ago (mostly because it stopped being uncool for middle class college types to listen to mainstream rap).

― Matt DC, Sunday, November 16, 2014 5:15 AM (9 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

I didn't really think it through at the time bc i was sort of spitballing but i do think there was a sort of counterintuitive logic to picking this thread vs. run the jewels or shabazz palaces (both of which are groups made up of artists who 'arrived' a decade ago or longer, when underground/mainstream dichotomies were much realer). I guess I would put it like, and I don't mean this as a backhanded compliment or anything, this is Lil Kim if Lil Kim was a Def Jux artist the way SA Smash were supposed to be Def Jux Diplomats

I guess I'm kind of arguing that there was more to the identity of 'backpacker' than 'white dudes liked difficult music that would never pop off with girls'—that it's a kind of relationship between mainstream success and idiosyncratic art that may not be broadly appealing even though it takes from (or evolves from) art that once was that ... I enjoy cheerleading for certain artists who I think have a shot at being bigger stars, then there's artists I enjoy just for what they're doing right now, bc i think it's intrinsically interesting if not game changing, and I'd readily put junglepussy in the latter group, which is, again, not a diss ... this is an era where run the jewels are making a pretty solid amount of money without crafting world class crossover hooks but just finding a niche and blowing it up

and i do think her other songs are still sorta backpacker-y...although yes "Nah" is most explicitly so

and again this is just a kind of theoretical construct of 'backpacker' that I wouldn't want to limit her career or direction going forward ... i'm offering it as framework that she's perfectly capable of transgressing should she decide to or should more music come along, but I think it roughly captures the outlines of the kind of music she's making

I enjoy cheerleading for certain artists who I think have a shot at being bigger stars, then there's artists I enjoy just for what they're doing right now, bc i think it's intrinsically interesting if not game changing

this is a really uninteresting binary. junglepussy might blow up commercially or critically. she might not. the former is unpredictable, so many artists who sounded like they'd be big never were and vice versa. you're a mug if you pronounce on this definitively at such an early stage of any artist's career. i'm certainly not predicting it for her, though more to do with the fact that the game is stacked against black women than any qualities of her music. and it shouldn't matter bc what's more interesting is why she deserves to blow up critically, which should not have anything to do with whether she's able to blow up commercially.

"backpacker" connotes anti-pop to me, which i don't hear in junglepussy's very relatable, hooky music and charisma and - acoustic guitar aside - the kind of beats she uses. i don't really see any use in equating "backpacker" with "lacking commercial success". i don't think she's particularly "on trend", which is in her favour, but neither do i think she's anti-mainstream or insistently underground.

i don't hear very 'hooky music' any more so than run the jewels is 'hooky music.' To my ears this doesn't have that mercenary immediacy of very popular music ... i just dont hear 'hits' here. Again, I like her stuff. Obviously the game is stacked against black women, but I think someone like Tink is in a much better position to capitalize in a mainstream friendly way...nb I think Tink is very talented, even though I haven't really liked tons of her own original records.

i don't really see any use in equating "backpacker" with "lacking commercial success".

more like equating backpacker with lacking commercial sense or instincts

i don't think she's particularly "on trend", which is in her favour, but neither do i think she's anti-mainstream or insistently underground.

I don't think Def Jux were anti-mainstream...but insistently underground, sure.

actually, they weren't insistently underground, they were insistently independent—but that's partly b/c El-P had an idiosyncratic approach that was hard to reconcile w/ a career in the edifice of industry. there's no shame in that though!

Worth noting that circa the turn of the millennium lots of people wanted backpacker to have some kind of pop breakthrough - at the time I couldn't go to a house party without hearing Jurassic 5's "What's Golden" and Dead Prez's "Hip Hop" and Common's "The Light" and Black Eyed Peas' "Weekend" (ironic in retrsopect) and Quannum's "I Changed My Mind" played several times over. That was populist rap as far as everyone I knew was concerned.

Yeah all except the last two (and a bunch of others from that contingent) were radio hits here.

I still here the Dead Prez joint in clubs occasionally.

dave chappelle def did a lot for that dead prez record too, what's ironic is my experience of dead prez and jurassic 5 was fundamentally popist, skim through the album looking for 'hits' kinda vibe! I liked "Drugs Oppress The People Every Day"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_SGElVX_aO8

which probably could have had a nate dogg hook if they pushed for it

I think someone like Tink is in a much better position to capitalize in a mainstream friendly way

tink is very on trend in a very boring way. outlets like fact, the fader etc are obsessed with her in a way that they're not with, idk, k michelle or teyana taylor or jennifer hudson and that's why she has more crossover potential than junglepussy but it's more to do with positioning and what the dominant aesthetic is right now than any of her own qualities.

more like equating backpacker with lacking commercial sense or instincts

but this is just a question of timing. sharaya j is a good example here, she's someone who obviously has pop nous, a strong sense of image etc, sounds like she would've been huge at the time when hip-hop sounded like that. rather than the square peg she actually is in 2014. but anyway i've never claimed potential commercial greatness for junglepussy, i just think a) discussing her in terms of her commercial sense or lack of it is really reductive, b) using "backpacker" as an umbrella term for all rappers who don't actively court crossover success (which is what commercial sense is, really) is just weird

the kind of backpacker rap tim mentions was totally populist in certain (awful) circles, though "hip hop" certainly went beyond them. i don't think junglepussy has anything to do with that kind of rap

i mean i feel like deej is a step away from calling pink dollaz/cam & china "backpacker" because they're not in line with current trends...

I think someone like Tink is in a much better position to capitalize in a mainstream friendly way

tink is very on trend in a very boring way. outlets like fact, the fader etc are obsessed with her in a way that they're not with, idk, k michelle or teyana taylor or jennifer hudson and that's why she has more crossover potential than junglepussy but it's more to do with positioning and what the dominant aesthetic is right now than any of her own qualities.

i think you and deej are making the same point here? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

yeah but deej seems to think that her commercial sense is ultimately what matters

b) using "backpacker" as an umbrella term for all rappers who don't actively court crossover success (which is what commercial sense is, really) is just weird

― lex pretend, Sunday, November 16, 2014 5:26 PM (3 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

idk, sounds like a pretty accurate definition of 'backpacker' in 2014 IMO.

And it's not just Fader and Fact that love Tink, it's also Timbaland.

Personally if you need someone more rappity rap that doesn't have that same Fact-core aura you could look at someone like Dreezy, who has or is on the verge of having a major label deal and has commercial ~presence~ as a rapper even though her last tape didn't have (what i would consider) great song-qua-songs.

yeah but deej seems to think that her commercial sense is ultimately what matters

― lex pretend, Sunday, November 16, 2014 5:32 PM (1 minute ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

what matters in terms of .... i think it matters in the sense that it will have a concrete impact on the shape of a career, but i doubt you'd disagree w/ that.

is it possible to talk about the music without peering into the crystal ball about how junglepussy's career will pan out. i literally have no idea and neither do i care that much. i care about what she's done in 2014 not what she might be doing in 2017

Isn't your real target here twitter pr hype cycles not deej?

http://betterthanvoodoo.files.wordpress.com/2012/08/tumblr_lnw5v0b97a1qk9oulo1_400.gif?w=377&h=286

also you seem to be overlooking the fact that if critics are willing to talk about an artist, then that's a measure of critical success right there, but if critics refuse to entertain the idea that an artist can be important/worthy of discussion regardless of her prospects, that's just trend-chasing

xp deej seems to be arguing that critics should focus their discussion, if not the artists we deign to talk about, around pr hype cycles. otherwise why talk about them so much??

Lol I think he was saying the precise opposite:

i feel like if we could ratchet down the expectations game to pre-Odd Future levels, it would be easier to enthuse about this ... pretty cool underground rap

― deej loaf (D-40), Friday, November 14, 2014 11:00 PM (2 days ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

why has this entire thread been about her commercial prospects then

"we" could ratchet down the expectations game by not droning on and on about it ourselves, maybe?

i mean imagine if this entire conversation had been transposed to the dawn richard thread when you started it

because he made a throwaway line and you went after him for it?

every one of deej's posts itt has been about her commercial prospects/sense?

Kinda worried that Vice is her first platform for greater exposure. How many artists does that work out well for?

To be clear, I'm not grading her prospects, I'm pre-emptively hoping that others in the hype cycle don't either. As far as the stuff she's released so far, I like it, but I'm also not like "Why isn't this on the radio??" Knowing the hype cycle (cf the entire Odd Future thing) people will take the NEW LIL KIM thing to absurd levels that she can't possibly live up to.

No one was doing that itt?

No one said they were! Lex took issue w me not the other way around

you can hear a huge reggae and west indian influence in her beats when you listen to the whole record so i don't know wtf this whole "backpacker rap" conversation is doing here

her references are all pretty mainstream too, from nelly & kelly to rihanna to the influences she literally lists on the last track

"new lil kim" would be an odd thing for people to run with, because unlike most lil kim influences this decade it's not about being sexually explicit (when junglepussy is sexually explicit it's more tangential, more framed by larger interactions than just cartoon fucking), it's about kim's actual voice and flow (which get overlooked in any conversation actually about kim already)

but she's so ridiculously versatile - she does the yung bratty trina-esque thing on "fuck texting", the more conscious aspects on "nah" (though she's nowhere near eg rapsody when it comes to backpacker rap), the dancehall thing on "mi nuh care"...

the beats are just so detailed, like every song has a really satisfying sound in it somewhere that you can't really place in a lineage...i feel like she's consciously setting herself outside any existing scenes

pretty mainstream...for ten years ago (plus rihanna)

idk sounds backpackery to me, if anything late 90s backpackers were only referencing the mainstream rap of five years ago

This is an exceptionally well-balanced sounding album.

Which seems like an odd compliment, but albums that hang together really well are kinda rare these days.

reading about that new song of hers on factmag's singles reviews made me think about JP again - i want to like her, but she just sounds like a million other NY rappers that have come out over the years (quite a bit of rah digga in here, whether just by coincidence/similar backgrounds or her being a fan). im not sure whats all that special about her other than her presentation, name, and the fact there is kind of a collective desire to support female MCs right now. she has a few decent songs like picky bitch checklist, but theres nothing about her that i think merits more than the fame she currently holds.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MhfFVzce7YI