Should Pop Idols be shot?

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Having put up with Will Young doing his best to massacre 'Light My Fire' and then teaming with Gareth Gates to destroy a perfectly good Beatles song, I would like to offer to the assembled panel that anyone succeeding in a pop talent competition who then proceeds to destroy classics should be shot to put them (and us) out of misery

― Fiona Lewry, Tuesday, 22 October 2002 22:58 (twenty-three years ago)

Its moments like this I'm glad I emigrated.

Then again you've not heard Sita and K-otic.

― stevo (stevo), Tuesday, 22 October 2002 23:08 (twenty-three years ago)

How can you actually "massacre" a Doors song? I think the military term is "overkill".

― Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Tuesday, 22 October 2002 23:09 (twenty-three years ago)

I think a vague ILM consensus was reached that Will's "Light My Fire" was better than the Doors' one yeah. As for "The Long And Winding Road", it was a standard from the day it was written pretty much (though W & G's version presses a particular irritation-button of mine: don't do a song as a duet unless it makes sense as a duet!).

― Tom (Groke), Tuesday, 22 October 2002 23:27 (twenty-three years ago)

"Will Young doing his best to massacre 'Light My Fire'"

Yeah, but his best ain't good enough. He didn't do half as good a job of making that song sound awful as Jim Morrison and Massive Attack did. Pah!

― weasel diesel (K1l14n), Wednesday, 23 October 2002 07:24 (twenty-three years ago)

you have my blessing to shoot richard "dr dick" park of the, ahem, fame academy.

― Marcello Carlin, Wednesday, 23 October 2002 07:33 (twenty-three years ago)

they are saving music from badly drawn boy and mercury rev

― gareth (gareth), Wednesday, 23 October 2002 07:45 (twenty-three years ago)

they are dragging music back to 1954 via 1987. i'd rather have badly drawn boy and mercury rev than any of this lot, if for no other reason than we need people who can't or won't "sing," i.e. not subscribing to the post-mariah/whitney tyranny of "soulful" singing.

― Marcello Carlin, Wednesday, 23 October 2002 07:55 (twenty-three years ago)

Coincidentally, pictures do exist of a Popstars: The Rivals finalist topless. They should be appearing in the national press within the month.

― Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Wednesday, 23 October 2002 08:46 (twenty-three years ago)

The last time I checked, BDB and Mercury Rev were still around.

― weasel diesel (K1l14n), Wednesday, 23 October 2002 08:51 (twenty-three years ago)

i know, still you cant have everything!

― gareth (gareth), Wednesday, 23 October 2002 08:59 (twenty-three years ago)

For the record - Young's version of Light My Fire turned a great (albeit overexposed) rock single which contributed much (what's that organ solo doing there?) to the genre into something resembling pisspoor easy listening. Stripping the song of all its dynamics, sex, edginess not to mention psychedelic tendencies, Young's people constructed an inoffensive bland safe-play, which negated any form of creative statement, being entirely, utterly and fundamentally derivative. That's a massacre in my book.

Young and Gates are for shit. They might just about be able to hold a note but where does their art lie? In being able to look pretty for the flashbulbs. Just like Hear'Say, they will sink without trace in a few years but what is worrying is the ongoing trend in mainstream popular music to rewarding fame-hungry pinheads at the cost of raw talent, experimentation and bold statement.

As for the Rev I'd take them over Gough any day, poor man's Beck that he is.

― Roger Fascist (Roger Fascist), Wednesday, 23 October 2002 09:05 (twenty-three years ago)

they will sink without trace in a few years

why does this matter?

― gareth (gareth), Wednesday, 23 October 2002 09:19 (twenty-three years ago)

i mean, unless you like your pop careerist, i mean?

― gareth (gareth), Wednesday, 23 October 2002 09:20 (twenty-three years ago)

Roger F - your first paragraph is bollocks. Wilfully ignores the 600+ versions of the song that have appeared in the interim, many (perhaps too many, granted) in an easy-listening style; not least the Feliciano version on which Will's take is heavily based.

Re: the original question - NO!

― Jeff W (Jeff W), Wednesday, 23 October 2002 09:21 (twenty-three years ago)

Hmm, Jeff: "Wilfully ignores the 600+ versions of the song that have appeared in the interim, many (perhaps too many, granted) in an easy-listening style; not least the Feliciano version on which Will's take is heavily based."

Uhh... I would suggest my paragraph willfully takes into account these 600+ versions: I refer you - "Young's people constructed an inoffensive bland safe-play, which negated any form of creative statement, being entirely, utterly and fundamentally derivative." Where did I suggest that an easy listeningish version had not been done before?

― Roger Fascist (Roger Fascist), Wednesday, 23 October 2002 09:25 (twenty-three years ago)

Young's version of Light My Fire turned a great (albeit overexposed) rock single which contributed much (what's that organ solo doing there?) to the genre into something resembling pisspoor easy listening. Stripping the song of all its dynamics, sex, edginess not to mention psychedelic tendencies.

jeff w is right.

― michael wells (michael w.), Wednesday, 23 October 2002 09:28 (twenty-three years ago)

Oh I get it! Eureka! Ouch. Hey ho - sorry Jeff - take your point. But whether Young's people took the Doors original as a starting point or not, is it not justifyable to counterpoint Young's progeny with its originator? Whether you like it or not - Young's version IS derivative. And compared to the original it is stripped etc etc.

― Roger Fascist (Roger Fascist), Wednesday, 23 October 2002 09:35 (twenty-three years ago)

i. it's obviously offended YOU.

ii. "inoffensiveness" and lack of edge aren't a bad thing always. Young's version stripped the song of its bluster, made it more playful (tho as Jeff says he was copping ideas from Feliciano). With Morrison you get the weary feeling that it would be some kind of privilege to "light his fire" which probably just means "suck his cock" as per. With Young you think there might actually be something in it for you!

― Tom (Groke), Wednesday, 23 October 2002 09:40 (twenty-three years ago)

no one has bettered shirley bassey's version and that's all that needs to be said about light my fire (unless you count lauryn hill parenthesising it).

― Marcello Carlin, Wednesday, 23 October 2002 09:40 (twenty-three years ago)

Tom:

i: No offense, rather a slow sigh and perhaps a shrug.

ii: "inoffensiveness" and lack of edge aren't a bad thing always." Ta. But with Light My Fire, the only weary feeling I get is a result of hearing it 60 trillion times. I know what you mean about cock sucking as per though, yet I can't hold it against ole Jim. I prob'ly like his arrogance as much as you admire Young's modesty (its an assumption). But Young smirking doth not convince me that there might be something in it for me.

― Roger Fascist (Roger Fascist), Wednesday, 23 October 2002 09:55 (twenty-three years ago)

I have nearly finished my my C-90 by the way!

― Jeff W (Jeff W), Wednesday, 23 October 2002 09:58 (twenty-three years ago)

I'm not saying that the something-in-it would be any good btw! I don't like Young's version particularly but I can listen to it which I'm not sure I could to the Doors'.

― Tom (Groke), Wednesday, 23 October 2002 10:14 (twenty-three years ago)

but Young just lacks charisma i think...voice is technically good but big deal, no real sense of emotion in it...i know these are cliched criticisms and to say Jim Morrison had some charismatic edge is dubious in itself in that that could just mean he was an arrogant self-obssessed prick...i like the organ on the Doors version and the only good thing about Young's version is there is some subtlety and 'traditionalism' in the instrumentation...but its still not as bad as Horace Andy's version but not as good as Bassey's

― blueski, Wednesday, 23 October 2002 10:44 (twenty-three years ago)

i'm thinking about that 'lack of charisma' criticism...does Darius have more than both Will and Gareth? i'm thinking yes...but why/how?

― blueski, Wednesday, 23 October 2002 10:47 (twenty-three years ago)

I listened to Radio 1 last night for the first time in ages and they had the bloke from Coldplay on and Darius phoned up and was abjectly apologising to him apparently for his very existence, I was thinking for fucks sake grow a spine man.

― Tom (Groke), Wednesday, 23 October 2002 10:50 (twenty-three years ago)

Darius has a certain manly charm. Girls seem to like him, judging by the shrieks on TOTP when he performed his last single. His voice isn't much cop, but he should have a reasonable run of hits (like two or three) provided he gets good songs to record. Gareth, I find repellent both physically and vocally. I thought they would try to market Will in a more career-oriented fashion but they went for all these silly duets and joint promotional campaigns, constantly emphasising where these performers have originated instead of building them up as bona fide individual artists. I'm not sure that was such a good idea. Then again maybe it was - temporary cash cow until the next lot get 'discovered'.

― David (David), Wednesday, 23 October 2002 10:58 (twenty-three years ago)

really? cor, and with Myleene blubbing on Frank Skinner as well - its some kind of mass pop guilt meltdown...what next? Liberty X suicide pact?

― blueski, Wednesday, 23 October 2002 10:58 (twenty-three years ago)

i'm still trying to get over the idea of Gareth shagging Jordan...was that actually confirmed as having really happened? its so ludicrously News Of The World exclusive (which is was)

― blueski, Wednesday, 23 October 2002 11:00 (twenty-three years ago)

agreed about the strange short-termism of the will marketing. especially as cowell seems to have this emotional investment in making him long term. well see i guess...

as ford coldplay et al. i loved richard ashcrofts comment that pop music is bad right now because 30something white males have lost out to teenagism(!). something like "for a while, white men in coats with guitars were winning but now its back to girls and teenagers and machines and sex and glamour and all that, ugh, other stuff". um, thanks dad!

― gareth (gareth), Wednesday, 23 October 2002 11:28 (twenty-three years ago)

30something white men in coats with guitars have as much of a place in the charts and on the radio as the teenage sex machine glamour girls i figure...both are equally capable of good n' bad...still we all know who we'd rather wake up with eh...

― blueski, Wednesday, 23 October 2002 11:41 (twenty-three years ago)

1. Yes, kill them all.
2. I dont follow the Mercury Rev argument.

― David Allen, Wednesday, 23 October 2002 13:59 (twenty-three years ago)

best version of Light my Fire is by Astrud Gilberto

― g (graysonlane), Wednesday, 23 October 2002 14:12 (twenty-three years ago)

Then again you've not heard Sita and K-otic.

Well I have, and I must say that the British should be glad with their winners. Though the Germans have to put up with their winners No Angels.

Wasn't there a "public talent contest" thing in the US and Spain too?

― Siegbran (eofor), Wednesday, 23 October 2002 14:30 (twenty-three years ago)

A minor point has been missed here, I feel. Will Young sang that song as if he didn't know what a fire was, let alone where the matches isle was in the supermarket.

Can't wait for Gareth to sing Wayne / Jayne Conty's 'If you don't want to f***k me baby, baby f***k off'.

It makes me good to feel that people are experiencing the emotions they sing about.

Not

― Fiona Lewry, Wednesday, 23 October 2002 21:38 (twenty-three years ago)

A minor point has been missed here, I feel. Will Young sang that song as if he didn't know what a fire was, let alone where the matches isle was in the supermarket.

Can't wait for Gareth to sing Wayne / Jayne County's 'If you don't want to f***k me baby, baby f***k off'.

It makes me good to feel that people are experiencing the emotions they sing about.

Not.

That was the case of the missing U, for all you pop trivialists out there!

― Fiona Lewry, Wednesday, 23 October 2002 21:39 (twenty-three years ago)

"I dont follow the Mercury Rev argument"

Gareth said they were ridding the world of Mercury Rev and BDB. I argued that these artists were still around, so he isn't actually getting rid of them, and has little bearing on their existence. Gareth said, yeah, but it's a shame they haven't (ie, "credible" stuff like the Rev and BDB is actually a lot shitter than Will Young. I don't agree, but I think it is better than "credible" shit like the Doors)

Note: This may not be what he meant at all, I don't want to speak for him! it's just what i thought he meant.

― weasel diesel (K1l14n), Wednesday, 23 October 2002 21:57 (twenty-three years ago)

Oh no! I started a thread I thought everyone would agree with me on and hardly anyone did! Oh no!

― Tom (Groke), Wednesday, 23 October 2002 22:16 (twenty-three years ago)

kilian is more or less correct in paraphrasing them. while they are not ridding them, they are keeping them out of the charts. i am being slightly facetious in that i am about as likely to buy gates or young records about as much as i am BDB or beck or whatever. ie, not much

― gareth (gareth), Thursday, 24 October 2002 07:32 (twenty-three years ago)

Stevo - I have heard Sita. If she is Dutch, you have my sympathies.

― Mr Swygart (mrswygart), Thursday, 24 October 2002 07:38 (twenty-three years ago)

gareth, what's number 9 in the singles chart this week?

to paraphrase lester bangs, i find the apparent choice between pap and peat rather unfulfilling.

― Marcello Carlin, Thursday, 24 October 2002 08:34 (twenty-three years ago)

Yes Gareth they are doing a bloody awful job of their BDB Barricade-manning duties.

A more interesting exercise would be to list the records that are actually being kept out of the charts by Pop Idol related singles, i.e. #s 41 (or more) in weeks where PI stuff is in the 40.

― Tom (Groke), Thursday, 24 October 2002 08:49 (twenty-three years ago)

...and this week it happens to be tori amos!

does the theory still stand up?

― Marcello Carlin, Thursday, 24 October 2002 08:53 (twenty-three years ago)

yes, but its been kept out of the top 8! (um, what is it anyway? i havent looked at the charts this week)

― gareth (gareth), Thursday, 24 October 2002 08:55 (twenty-three years ago)

richard stilgoe.

― michael wells (michael w.), Thursday, 24 October 2002 09:35 (twenty-three years ago)

"Oh no! I started a thread I thought everyone would agree with me on and hardly anyone did! Oh no!"

This is harsh. She didn't get worked up about people not agreeing with her from what i can see.

― weasel diesel (K1l14n), Thursday, 24 October 2002 10:34 (twenty-three years ago)

Yeah sorry it probably was. S.Artois partially to blame.

― Tom (Groke), Thursday, 24 October 2002 10:36 (twenty-three years ago)

stella is a difficult mistress, no?

― michael wells (michael w.), Thursday, 24 October 2002 10:46 (twenty-three years ago)

She has her funny moods.

― Tom (Groke), Thursday, 24 October 2002 10:48 (twenty-three years ago)

Worst version of "Light My Fire" is still by UB40 tho. Doors one is cool- yay hedonism!

― Daniel_Rf, Thursday, 24 October 2002 11:38 (twenty-three years ago)

I cannot believe that people are still going on about Mariah/Whitney tyranny. Have you never heard Marvin Gaye/Minnie Ripperton/Aretha Franklin/Smokey Robinson/Phillip Bailey/Al Green/James Brown/Little Richard/Ella Fitzgerald/Sarah Vaughn[insert famous r&b singer from any decade in the 20th century of your choice here]?

― Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Thursday, 24 October 2002 13:32 (twenty-three years ago)

I'd guess Marcello has very much heard them all but doesn't like M. and W. in particular, actually. At least that's how I read it!

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Thursday, 24 October 2002 15:47 (twenty-three years ago)

The things that Whitney Houston and Mariah Carey do with their voices are not any different from what the people I listed do/did with their voices. Lord help you if ever hear gospel music, which cranks the melismania and shout-out tendencies up by a factor of about 20.

― Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Thursday, 24 October 2002 16:57 (twenty-three years ago)

Subthread....
Taking Sides: Will Young vs Jose Feliciano! FITE!

― Lord Custos Omega (Lord Custos Omega), Thursday, 24 October 2002 17:07 (twenty-three years ago)

Surely Will Young vs Mick Hucknall?

― Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Thursday, 24 October 2002 17:40 (twenty-three years ago)

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