Taking sides : Chuck Eddy vs Simon Reynolds

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Both of those guys seem to be a huge influence on ILM, yet they seem to be in entirely opposite camps to me - I love the funny nerd-at-peace-with-his-nerdiness who's into liking what you like because it's fun, and find almost intolerable the revolution-mongering clubgoing hipster for whom music that isn't the newest thing is worthless by definition.

Patrick, Tuesday, 15 May 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Chuck's not *that* much of a clubgoing hipster. But Simon's at peace with himself, surely. :-)

As someone who flat out loves both, I don't see any contradiction. Their personal tastes often differ, sure. But I think both embrace/love to analyze the now while aware of a past and using it as a reference point where and when needed. My own style may tend more towards Eddy's approach when in ramble mode, and certainly his 'love what you want and damn the hipsters' approach was incredibly liberating, but ultimately both expanded my awareness of not only what was out there but how it could be talked about and appreciated.

Ned Raggett, Tuesday, 15 May 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Patrick, I'll point you in the direction of the Spin Alternative Record Guide, wherein Simon lists his ten favorite records. The book came out in '95, but Simon's "newest" records listed are 69 and Isn't Anything. I'd hardly say he equates greatness with newness. If you're smart unlike me, you didn't but the book -- so take my word for it.

I like both Eddy and Reynolds and see a fair amount of humor in both of them. Eddy's is more obvious, where with Simon it's buried and subtle. I suppose that makes sense with Eddy being American and Simon being English? I think a certain degree of familiarity with Simon's writing is necessary to get his sense of humor.

Andy, Tuesday, 15 May 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Big vote for Reynolds here. As I've stated in at least one other thread, I want to hear about music from somebody who obviously loves it! I don't get that sense from Eddy. After the last thread about him, I picked up his Accidental History book. Some of it is great, but more than half those pieces just degenerate into pointless list- making. Like, "Trains have a long history in pop music, and I'll demonstrate this by mentioning about 100 songs that have something to do with trains." Who gives a shit?

Eddy is occasionally funny, though, and I'm coming around to the idea that his way of approaching music is interesting (the "like what you like" thing) and possibly even sincere.

But Reynolds does his homework, has strong opinions, and (most important to me) seems to think about music the same way I do. The way he breaks down individual sounds and describes the kind of reactions they can provide, that's fascinating to me. Plus, he's not hung up on lyrics at all, whereas Eddy, coming from a rock background, seems to think them very important.

Mark, Tuesday, 15 May 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

I should the 'like what you like' thing is important, otherwise why the hell are we here? ;-)

Ned Raggett, Tuesday, 15 May 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Andy - I have the Spin book and the lists are supposed to be best-alternative-albums lists. So the fact that Reynolds would list nothing recent would be coherent with his apparent perception that guitar-rock died when acid house appeared.

I think you can take Chuck Eddy's approach to music and apply it to pretty much any genre (and you need only look at Accidental Evolution's discography to see what a broad and voracious musical appetite the man has), whereas with Reynolds' writing of the last few years (or at least what's on his web site), if you don't like techno you're screwed - he's simply not talking to you.

Patrick, Tuesday, 15 May 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Point taken, Patrick, although you have to consider that the list just didn't include anything that had been released between '89 and '95, hardly a stretch of time to classify as having fallen off of rock records. Aw hell -- maybe I should take that back since I recall him making a statement or two that completely negates this "defense" that I'm making.

I'd say Reynolds appetite is just as voracious. I definitely remember a comment from the last year or so where he said there's been too many great recordings to consume. With his site and the last decade or so in music journalism, Simon has centered on electronic music because there haven't been that many people out there documenting it. At least the others haven't had the audience that Simon has had. He could probably write as much about 'x' rock record as a Green Velvet track, but he'd (generally) rather deal with the less-covered records.

His level of expertise with electronic music calls for him to write about it in order to make his living. I would imagine he'd be just as happy doing what Chuck does if it were called for. Perhaps my perspective is skewed since my interest in loud guitar records has waned considerably in the last few years.

So I guess the basic gist is that electronic/dance music "needs" his attention and documentation.

Andy, Tuesday, 15 May 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Well you know that I'm going to say Chhhh....Simon Reynolds of course. No need to go on again why, I've said my thing elsewhere. Andy made some good points though. And I just don't trust somebody who looks like Chuck Eddy on the record front ;)

Omar, Wednesday, 16 May 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

I don't see at all any counterposition between the two. Both seem to have a go for broke attitude towards searching new music. The difference, I think, being that for Reynolds enjoyment of music is immensely social, whereas Eddy examines things from an entirely personal perspective. Reynolds has the rave massive, while Eddy has the pop machine and the isolated listener. Which makes, I think, Reynolds more disciplined, but Eddy more freewheeling. Both of which have their place.

Sterling Clover, Wednesday, 16 May 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

The thing is, Eddy's approach would apply much better to social situations. I don't care who you are, you can't talk like Simon Reynolds in the middle of a social outing, even if you're Simon Reynolds.

Otis Wheeler, Wednesday, 16 May 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Would Eddy's approach really apply better to social situations? Imagine meeting a super-cute person of the apropriate gender, and trying to explain to him/her that Pink Floyd are a heavy metal band, and that "Teenage Dirtbag" by Wheatus is one of the great singles of all time. Sure, you'll make conversation. But will you get a date?

Sterling Clover, Wednesday, 16 May 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Make em laugh = yes, you'll get a date

"trying to explain" = not Chuck Eddy: he just states, and if it's absurd, more fool the audience for expecting rock not to be

mark s, Wednesday, 16 May 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Anyone who came up to me claiming "Teenage Dirtbag" was the greatest song of all time would get whatever the fuck they wanted! Simon Reynolds' writing is like a serialized VH1 Behind the Music: Rave (same dramatic arc, more words, less C.C. Deville...it's a wash), but I've never read any of his books. To me, he's at his best when he uses drugs the way Turbonegro uses anal sex -- as a metaphor for everything. As for Chuck Eddy, he's kept all the right records but he writes too much about his kids (drugs are surely more interesting and useful than children). Anyway, my copy of Stairway to Hell got puked on so I had to throw it away.

Kris, Wednesday, 16 May 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

As for Chuck Eddy, he's kept all the right records but he writes too much about his kids (drugs are surely more interesting and useful than children)

Uh, wow Kris, you are quite the individual thinker who sees through all the bullshit and tells it like it is ?

Patrick, Wednesday, 16 May 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

I would be happy to have Simon Reynolds talk like Simon Reynolds to me in a social situation. As long as he didn't say 'miasmatic' too much.

Josh, Wednesday, 16 May 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

You can't talk like Josh Kortbein in the middle of a social outing either, even if you're Josh Kortbein. You come up to me and say "this doesn't sound like Tommy Flanagan - I wonder who the pianist is," I kick you in the balls, though I'd probably already have precluded the situation by kicking someone else in the balls for playing jazz in a social outing. Though to be fair to you, Josh, you'd probably say cockfarmer a lot and I'd get along with you great. Plus, the only time I've ever said "Autechre" out loud was when I was on acid and mentioned that they sound good in the kitchen.

Otis Wheeler, Wednesday, 16 May 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

I nominate this brilliance from Otis as Post of the Year.

Ned Raggett, Thursday, 17 May 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Otis, you are a liar. You AND Ramon both said Autechre in my apartment this weekend, yo. And neither of you were on acid at all. Goldschlager, sure. Acid, no. I'm only forgiving you because you threatened to kick multiple people in the balls in that post, and because we're going to force Ramon listen to Steph read the Bible. The wuss bag.

Ally, Thursday, 17 May 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Otie, I say 'cockfarmer' out loud so much it will make you cry. Please do not kick me in the balls.

sincerely,

Josh, Thursday, 17 May 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

I'd rather talk like Kris or Otis in a social outing than anyone else. Of course, I suppose that would make it an anti-social outing. Which is sort of how I usually get along anyway... Uh, Jimmy, you wanna chime in here?

Sterling Clover, Thursday, 17 May 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Patrick: I don't understand your question?

Kris, Thursday, 17 May 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

I think the question is, what about kids on drugs?

Josh, Thursday, 17 May 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Kids on drugs? Not worthwhile. Duh.

Sterling Clover, Thursday, 17 May 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

i'd rather not talk like otis in social situations: BECAUSE OTIS DOESN'T TALK. he makes a lot of gestures and such but only starts to speak when he's got the devil in him. that is to say, alcohol. a snapshot from dinner:

fred makes (another) sarcastic observation.

ramon strokes his chin thoughtfully.

otis shrugs his shoulders as if to say, "what are you gonna do?"

stephanie laughs.

ally takes a sip of her wine.

"can i get these mussel shells wrapped please?"

fred solinger, Thursday, 17 May 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Maybe your observations sucked and we didn't want to hurt your feelings.

Nah, that can't possibly be true because Ramon is all about insulting people. Me and Steph were just looking forward to her plan to shave heads.

Ally, Thursday, 17 May 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

I think the question is, what about kids on drugs?
Ummm, not only shouldn't children be on drugs but that's a total waste of drugs?

Kris, Thursday, 17 May 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

chuck eddy for never saying "oceanic," for giving up on indie rock and then listening to hair metal and disco instead of acid house, and for liking boston as well as branca.

sundar subramanian, Saturday, 19 May 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

five months pass...
Chuck, even though I wasn't very interested in his list approach in his last book, and even if he makes sort of the opposite error that Simon Reynolds makes by being a little too distrustful of theorizing and high culture. I'm not even interested in most of the music Reynolds writes about. Chuck may occasionally defend otherwise scorned artists in order to be perverse, but at least he is relatively open, changes his mind, and mostly stays honest (I think) about his actual responses to music.

DeRayMi, Tuesday, 6 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

one month passes...
I have been a reader of Reynolds stuff since 1986; he RULES!,see? Who is chuck eddy anyway?

Russ_Dixon, Monday, 17 December 2001 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

four months pass...
Both Chuck Eddy and Simon Reynolds suck equally. One is a pretentious pseudo-intellectual and the other is a pretentious pseudo- anti-intellectual.

Dydo Gottmundssen, Wednesday, 17 April 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

at least chuck eddy's funny. simon reynolds is so (thinks for 5 whole minutes) boring!

, Wednesday, 17 April 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

five years pass...

genius of olde ilm, amirite???

gershy, Sunday, 17 June 2007 04:29 (seventeen years ago)

(drugs are surely more interesting and useful than children).

http://www.babble.com/CS/blogs/strollerderby/archive/2007/03/07/parents-babble-the-human-face-of-hipster-parenting.aspx

Just sayin'...

xhuxk, Sunday, 17 June 2007 04:50 (seventeen years ago)

lol @ vitriolic comments

simon & joy seem like nice people!

gershy, Sunday, 17 June 2007 04:55 (seventeen years ago)

I think it makes sense that Simon and Chuck seem so far apart, but then I think of Frank and Chuck as being quite radically different as thinkers-about-music too. Perhaps if something is so easily reconciled it's not trying hard enough (and I say this as someone who instinctively tries to reconcile everything).

Tim F, Sunday, 17 June 2007 05:02 (seventeen years ago)


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