request for discussion: ERIC B. AND RAKIM - PAID IN FULL

I've just found Dave Foster Wallace's 'Signifying Rappers' in some bargin bin and in the appendix it has a full musical anotation of 'Paid in Full' (Coldcut Remix). Nice one.

I don't know that hiphop purists hated the Coldcut mix of 'Paid In Full' at the time, at least in Britain, as I remember first hearing it on a comp called Machine Gun Poetry, which was mostly underground Brit stuff like Overlord X and London Posse. Still think it's a great song too.

Is it or is it not true that the Coldcut mix of "Paid In Full" contains a Play School sample? If so, you could say it sort-of- invented the "kiddie-rave" records of 4 or 5 years later ...

I'm sorry, Ethan, but you can't let yourself get set up that way. ;-)

To me the "Say Kids.." Coldcut sample is part of a different sub- genre of sample ie incredibly scratchy/lo-fi speech samples from *very old* (40's-60's) US tv and film. Wasn't that type of sample already well-established within hip-hop? (I seem to remember the Simon Harris 'Breaks & Beats' series of albums from the mid-to-late 80's had plenty of examples).

The "Charlie Says..." sample, as used by the Prodigy, apparently came from a Public Information Film (remember the green cross code..or something like that).

Ans = not really. One reason why Rakim was pissed off?

In live DJ-ing, yes, it was way old (everything turned into breakbeats): but hiphop had taken a difft jag on record, after Bam "sampled" K'werk. Lots of rapping and beats, but not much "found voice", until "Walk this Way"

Avant quiltpop went back to Bush of Ghosts (a record Matt Black knew VERY well) and Czukay and early early Material.

Double D & Steinski had used bits of adverts etc: but Steinsky certainly considered "Say Kids" a breakthrough record: the NEXT STEP.

And no one — esp.UK HipHop-wise — was doing NOTHING LIKE THIS YET. Coldcut jumped the whole game sideways, by slicing up Ofra Haza and (if it is him) Howdy Doody.

However, *I* can't find anything that screams 'Playschool' on the Coldcut "Paid in Full": coupla could-be-anything clips (some people count to four noisily). Or is it the falling string figure which goes der-duh-der der-duh-der, right after the Journey Into Sound is announced?

"Charlie Says": Charlie was a rather scary, screechy cat, who wouldn't allow the child in his charge — whose voice it is — to cross the road except when it was safe. I restate: Coldcut got this Bod-Wasn't-He- Brilliant? sensibility online mainstream in the UK, via samples.

But not via "Paid in Full"?

(Totally first in the game on infantile-whatever-I-called-it: Swell Maps.)

Sorry Ethan...

I see what you mean re Coldcut pioneering the idea of making a track out of *dozens* of samples. BTW what year did that record come out? 1987?

My point, such as it was, was more about the actual "Say Kids What Time Is It?" sample. I was suggesting that it wasn't the first time that somebody had used an absurd 'ancient US television' sample (but you could be right that it was..).

I agree with Mark that Coldcut *did* lead to that kids' telly sensibility going mainstream a few years later, but not through "Paid In Full". I just suggested it vaguely aware that it was probably not the best example.

A decade on from "Charley" and "Roobarb and Custard" and "A Trip To Trumpton" they emerge as CULTURAL TURNING POINTS; back then, Channel 4 would devote Saturday nights to complete black and white shows from the 50s and 60s and Barry Cockcroft's early 70s Yorkshire TV films, and BBC2 showed Denis Mitchell's 1977 masterpiece "Never and Always" in full, mid-evening, summer Saturday. Now Saturday nights on C4 and BBC2 are the exclusive province of clip shows aimed solidly at the students of '91 / '92 who made hits out of those records, now a v. attractive late 20s / early 30s demographic (see also websites like TV Cream, etc.) and anything from the 70s that isn't pop-cultural is written out. Listening to Shaft and Urban Hype on the Top 40 show, I could never have dreamt that they'd be *important*, but ...

The second side of Follow the Leader begins with a saxophone solo, which is absolutely unacceptable.

Also, mark s writing in a language I can understand shocka! (Plus: "Avant quiltpop" - nice one!)

Although when I first watched it (not knowing the above circumstances) I immediately assimilated the low tempo, dark lighting and static personas and thought "prog hip-hop."

"Follow the Leader" (the track, not the album) is however the business - one of the very greatest singles of the '80s.

Eric B. never did any "real scarthcing". He is one of the weakest DJ's which is continuosly demonstrated by his lack of control to keep up with the tempo of the song and he has never created any complex rhythms with the scratch...however his production on this album reshaped Hip-Hop starting with Marley Marl and exploding with The Bomb Squad. The James Brown well had been dried up shortly after though spawning LS Style's James Brown is Dead. Rakim introduced Islam to Hip-Hop and powerful narratives. The 1st 3 tracks on Follow The Leader still blow this album away though!

Coldcut..Coldcut...let me see...oh yeah, the guys who produced that Lisa Stansfield track. Good song!

[Rakim] Thinkin' of a master plan Cuz ain't nuthin but sweat inside my hand So I dig into my pocket, all my money is spent So I dig deeper but still comin' up with lint

So I start my mission, leave my residence Thinkin' how could I get some dead presidents I need money, I used to be a stick-up kid So I think of all the devious things I did

I used to roll up This is a hold up Ain't nuthin' funny Stop smiling, be still, don't nuthin' move but the money

But now I learned to earn cos I'm righteous I feel great! so maybe I might just

Search for a 9 to 5, if I strive Then maybe I'll stay alive

So I walk up the street whistlin' this Feelin' out of place cos man do I miss A pen and a paper, a stereo, a tape of Me and Eric B., and a nice big plate of

Fish, which is my favorite dish But without no money it's still a wish Cos I don't like to dream about gettin' paid So I dig into the books of the rhymes that I made

So now's a test to see if I got pull Hit the studio, cuz I'm paid in full [E] : Rakim, check this out, Yo you go to your girls house and I'll go to mine cause my girl definetly mad cause it took us to long to make this album. [R] : Yo, I hear what you say'n. So let's just pump the music up and count our money [E] : Yo, well check this out. Yo Eli, turn the bass down and just let the beat keep on rock'n [R] : Yo, what happened to peace. Peace!

definitive proof of their prog-rap status

I remember hearing people saying "You thought I was a donut/You tried to glaze me" before I ever heard anything off that first record (I can't even remember which cut it's from though). I also remember when the next album came out, convincing all my housemates and several friends that instead of "Rakim I say, follow the leader, Rakim I say" he was saying "Rakimitate, follow the leader Rakimitate". I'm still not sure which one it is.

Ashley's Roachclip

I'm 99.9% sure Frank Farian didn't sample the break from Roachclip for Milli Vanilli, but rather, from Paid in Full itself.

anyone know where the horn sample at 4:50 of this remix is from? (not the grunt squeal, the brass lick)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WD4mXRFhaU0

is it bobby byrd?

nope, don't think so

sounds like "Funky Stuff" by Kool & the Gang

that's it, thanks!

like many things, i know it as a common brass band quote (2:10ish):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4YfWBzrRJxA

i cannot fucking believe ethan in this thread

nooooo

What?

Boosting Trump on twitter, wtf has gotten into him?

Eric B and Rakim™ ‏@EricBandRakim 2h2 hours ago
We've taken back command of our twitter. Thanks for your help @Twitter @Support.

Hmm

They're still Eric B boosters, by all accounts.

phew! for a second there it seemed like a black person didn’t think us white liberals know what’s best for him

You are a real treat

punksishippies, how long were you on rym before they banned you? i'm just curious because i kind of want to know if we actually have lower standards than they do.

30 years old today (the album)

my all time favourite hip hop track:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fvAAETHrXv0

Reformed and playing the apollo!

Since no one else has said so on this thread: Know The Ledge is their best single.