do you have tinnitus ?

Needs 'not yet' option.

fuck.

yes, a lot, it's a fucking pain

also totally unrelated to my music listening, however.

Oweirdchars : what caused yours ?

there is no cause

my coping with this is documented in painful detail here: Shakey Mo's thread of misery

okedoke .. sorry .. missed that.

I think mine was an anxiety symptom. I don't have it much anymore.

Should be a "don't think so" option; I notice something very minor every once in a while. I've never been one for gigs or clubs though, and obviously I'm pretty pro quality rather than volume at home.

quite a bit, much of it probably just attrition but i think a lot comes from when i saw not mbv not dinosaur jr not swans but the fucking flaming lips in their balloons and confetti phase. a few days of having everything sound like it was pitched up a tone or two

mine kicks in more when stressed.
of course the worst times are after a booze fuelled gig night, but those are few and far between these days.
so, i guess i am lucky given my age and noise excess.
to have it kick in without rhyme or reason must be infuriating.
i have always blamed my low level groove on too much on-u sound/1987 swans gig, but the fact is, it was probably my love for my pseudo-walkman in 1987, and i was one of very few back then.
the next generation of adults are truly f&cked.
and deaf.

Some, based on too much time spent in small practice spaces with idiotic fucking guitarists who stand right in front of their amps turned up to welding levels because they can't hear it properly as the sound whistles past their calves pointed straight at me on the other side of the room. Dicks.

Moved to a new place recently. Old place was about half a block from the interstate, and traffic noise was a constant background drone. No traffic noise at the new place; for the first few nights, and occasionally since, I'll have a faint ringing in my right ear, which the traffic noise either drowned out or otherwise had masked. Since the ringing comes and goes, and never gets worse, I'm ok with it.

I also got a hearing test done just before moving to the new place, and the audiologist said I have "perfect hearing," which I absolutely should not have (years of drums, guitar, and bass, plus all of the above with headphones and without earplugs for a number of years).

sounds like you have had a lucky groove MBJ !
if i am in a place of ambient silence then i get to hear a never ending FAX styled drone.
i have decided to accept and love my drone, but the fact is it's always there ...

voted "yes - a lot, but i accept it for the life i have lived .."

a stupidly loud Gary Numan show a year or so back has created even more permanent damage in my left ear, a more low-pitched fluttery sound, not like the typical tinnitus whine.

I got a temporary low frequency hum in my left ear after listening to music one night a few years ago, it was the first time I'd experienced such a thing and that shocked me enough into listening to music at reasonable volumes on headphones.

in the daytime it's okay, at night it's an issue once or twice a year - I've spent a few near-sleepless nights due to tinnitus. despite using earplugs since age 13, ugh.

I have a mildlish ringing/whistling in my ears that is fairly easy to ignore - notice it mostly when I'm wearing ear plugs, funnily enough.

Pretty much always wear ear protection at gigs these days, after seeing Maryanne Amacher give an ear-piercing live performance a few years ago that left me with very loud ear whistling for three or four days afterwards - really thought I'd fucked my hearing for good, so when it subsided I resolved never to risk it in that way again.

Good to hear that you got a second chance, Ward. I wrongly decided last November that a Nils Frahm show didn't merit the need for earplugs. Both ears have been ringing ever since then. Word: if the bass frequencies are making your clothes move, it's prolly a good idea to protect your hearing.

Am just happy that the hyperacusis stopped after about three months. That was a particular bitch to endure.

I have it, right around the frequency of crash cymbals/microphone feedback (gee, wonder where I got it?), and it is not generally a problem unless I hit a trigger frequency. A nice microphone feedback blast will have me miserable for at least a half day; one big surprise was that I had to get the hell out of an unamplified classical flute recital at intermission recently -- I was getting increasingly annoyed at the loud air conditioning when it occurred to me that there wasn't any air conditioner running at all that cold evening. A bummer because I had been enjoying the concert.

I have it; a very high-pitched, low-level tone that I hear more if I plug my ears with my fingers or if I'm in a very quiet room. Since I've mostly given up going to non-jazz shows, and wear earplugs when I do, I don't really foresee it becoming more of a problem in later life than it already is.

"yes - a little, but it's ok .." but every time I have a cold or go to a gig I spend a few days in the "yes - a little, buts it's becoming a concern .." category, feeling regretful and wondering if I might have to stop seeing live music at all one day soonish.

And yes, I wear earplugs at gigs (mostly).

I have it, right around the frequency of crash cymbals/microphone feedback (gee, wonder where I got it?)

it's my understanding the low frequencies are what cause the most actual hearing damage. I have the "4k notch" that's most common; I found my tinnitus unbearable when it first set in, had a total mental collapse. it was devastating. now it's much worse but I bear it gladly!

not yet. I go to loud rock shows pretty infrequently (though my ears have suffered many a noise set) & wear earplugs when I do.

now it's much worse but I bear it gladly!

more info please.
why gladly ?
as i have said, i have come to accept my low level drone, so far it has remained persistent for years, if it got worse, then i am not sure how i would cope.

it's my understanding the low frequencies are what cause the most actual hearing damage.

I'd heard this too. John Entwistle incurred more hearing damage than Pete Townshend. But unlike Townshend, instead of turning down or altering his setup (or going public about the dangers of loud music), he kept turning up and using bigger/louder equipment to compensate for what he could no longer hear. In the five or six years before his death, he was stone deaf.

I'm not that deaf! The tinnitus is pretty minor and frequency-specific in my case.

more info please.
why gladly ?

well, it's really the only way, for me -- I feel about it like I feel about a scar. I had the fun I wanted to have, this is part of that, I would probably do it the same way again. getting tinnitus was an incredibly difficult emotional experience for me and accepting it as part of how I am -- the way I'd gladly bear a missing digit and learn to work around it, incorporate it into how I worked -- was important for me.

above that, though, I turned the corner when I learned that the texture of some instruments, especially piano, sound incredibly different to me now that I'm missing a lot of information at & around 4k: they sound better. I hear piano as I never did before, and experience some chord constructions (major sevenths especially) as much bigger than I did before. they just sound denser, richer, than they did. I guess there's a possibility that's not related to the tinnitus but to changes in taste...but honestly, two months into it I sat down at the piano and just happened to play a maj7 and it landed on me like this giant revelation from God. it had a texture I'd never heard before, even though I've been playing maj7s for years. once that happened I began to listen to stuff with a curious ear for how it was registering for me, and noted that an absence in my hearing meant (again, for me, I don't know if this is true for anybody else) basically a new playfield in some ways. it's still a loss! but it's an interesting loss to me now, which is all the difference.

above that, though, I turned the corner when I learned that the texture of some instruments, especially piano, sound incredibly different to me now that I'm missing a lot of information at & around 4k: they sound better. I hear piano as I never did before, and experience some chord constructions (major sevenths especially) as much bigger than I did before. they just sound denser, richer, than they did. I guess there's a possibility that's not related to the tinnitus but to changes in taste...but honestly, two months into it I sat down at the piano and just happened to play a maj7 and it landed on me like this giant revelation from God. it had a texture I'd never heard before, even though I've been playing maj7s for years.

this makes sense - a lot of dissonant/clashing harmonics occur around 4kHz when you're working with fundamental frequencies around the mid-range of the piano, so cluster harmonies become more sonorous if those frequencies are attenuated

I'm not 100% sure about that but it rings true (iykwim) to me

also seventh chords are just the greatest generally

I like how Leo Fender in the 80s was losing his hearing but still designing pickups. One theory is that his hearing problems led him toward ever brighter and treblier sounds. He was convinced that what musicians wanted was more high end, but it may have been because that was all he could hear. Richard Smith writes in The Sound Heard Round the World" "Leo's reliance on diminished hearing led to pickups that sounded too shrill."

His background was with Country pedal steels and lap steels, where twang is king, then moved on to the twangtastic Telecaster, whose bridge pickups are definitely on the trebly end - some, painfully so. He didn't play guitar but knew what he liked, and what he liked was twang.

Some was apparently just plain stubbornness. Smith again: "He had problems taking advice if he had already set his mind on some feature or tone... several musicians preferred a pickup with less highs... more often than not Leo made the instruments he preferred, and they sounded the way he liked.... [while at G&L) Leo believed players needed even more highs than the Telecaster produced."

I have a high pitched ring that I hear at night when everything is quiet. Otherwise I never noticed it.

I always stuff some tissue paper in my ears at gigs.

the only time i stuffed tissue into my ears was at a mark stewart/mafia gig.

bloody glad i did ..

I actually have some mid-range dips, which I'm told is unusual, in addition to the dreaded NIHL.
Generally avoid obscenely loud stuff, unfortunately found myself at Metz at SXSW with no earplugs. Ugh.

practicing (rock music) loudly in a small room with a hardwood floor, close proximity to the crash cymbal would exacerbate the condition substantially.. that, in combination with loud amps. but it was the cymbals that usually had me wincing. and then all of the shows attended over the years until i started using protection (a little over ten years ago). I often get the sort of 'drop out' in one ear, followed by a high pitched sound that gradually diminishes.

I was so concerned about seeing MBV several years back that I purchased ear muffs (for shooting), and used them along with ear plugs for the "holocaust" part of you made me realize.

it was a pleasant body massage. I've read that your ears can become damaged by simply exposing your body (face, etc.) to loud sound, not just your ears.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyperacusis

i often wonder if this is the case, as my friends who play/practice rock music regularly do not seem to experience the same sensitivity. i usually have to plug my ears to impede the squeal of bus breaks, or passing ambulance sirens etc.

bus brakes, rather. apologies for the quintuple post

I get chills when I see the work 'hyperacusis' and I think of poor Jason DiEmillo of Asuza Plane.

http://www.buzzfeed.com/joycecohen/noise-kills-when-everyday-sound-becomes-torture#.otjAlwPAX

wow. thank you for posting that

whenever I get sad about all the shows I never went to growing up I try to remember how lucky I am to have at least OK hearing now because of it.

no - by some miracle despite having been at several of the loudest concerts in the history of music and spending my entire adult working life in extremely loud environments i don't have it.

my hearing however is bad.

xp i missed the minutemen twice at the seventh street entry when i was in the first flush of my fandom and it's prob the biggest concert regret of my life. BUT i was told D's telecaster was ridiculously ridiculously loud so maybe my tinnitus would be even worse if id made those shows...

Only attended two concerts that left my ears ringing before I invested in audiophile earplugs. Fortunately, those two were Curve and MBV, so no regrets.

It was Fuck Buttons in 2010 that got me to get high quality ear plugs.

What bugs more than the tinnitus is the noticeable attenuation/loss of hearing around the 6-8khz band in one ear.

PARDON?

(never gets old)

After years and years of punishment (Swans, On-U, MBV, Merzbow, Astro, Sunn, a million other things) and only the odd very light and short burst of tinnitus, after seeing Jiri Wehle (a Czech pensioner singing quiet fairy stories) and Afework Nigussie (an Azmari guy on solo masenqo) a couple of weeks ago I have been left with a blocked feeling in my left ear which makes everything sound like it's underwater. I'd read somebody else's similar story before, that it was something innocuous that caused their first big hearing problem, so it's earplugs from here on it for me.

I suffer from moderate tinnitus and hyperacusis, my symptoms can vary from totally unnoticeable to "so bad I can't get out of bed" on any given day. It's a struggle but I'm dealing with it.

I just want to point out that the Buzzfeed article above is quite negative and may not be the best introduction to the subject for someone with recently developed hearing problems -- I would quite seriousl post a warning by the link.

One of the major issues with tinnitus is the difficulty of getting proper practical advice -- between your GP being "lol deal with it" and sensationalist Daily Mail/Buzzfeed articles about suicide, it can make you feel rather hopeless when there's actually good information out there. (e.g. this book.

I've had a low-level ringing in the ears for about 10 years now. The ENT said it's just damage to the "hairs" in the ear and it won't go away. What I worry about is it getting worse--I know at least one person who has it so bad that he can't really hear much beyond the noise in his ears. Apparently, it drives some people to suicide.

I've had the ringing in my ears for about 15 years now and presume it is tinnitus but haven't talked to a GP about it. It's at it worst when I'm surrounded by silence or stressed. I put the radio on at low volume when I go to bed, usually bbc ws or r3 and it doesn't interrupt my sleep. The damage is all from a period when I didn't wear ear defenders at work, by the time I did start using them it was already too late.

I think Daniel Ash is the one who finally pushed me over the edge.

kind of amazed how much we just tolerate this. outside of Sufjan Stevens every single concert I've been to has been way too fucking loud. I was at my company Christmas party this weekend and the band was so loud my Apple Watch was telling me to get away from them despite being like 400 feet away. We did go and dance when they did "Superstition" but my ears were ringing for two days after. so like, what about all the people who were watching the band for an hour? it's wild.

What?

We had a mariachi band play in our backyard last weekend, for my wife's bday (they were great) – I came outside wearing these bulky black ear protectors, like you'd wear trackside at a NASCAR race. I know I looked silly... but they were loud! Like 95 db or more, for an hour.

Hearing aids definitely help, although cost is an issue. The Canadian government covers some of it, and my insurance covered some more; still had to pay $3,200 out of pocket. If the tinnitus bothers me, I put them in and it goes away; also the tinnitus is less frequent when they're not in. And, uh, they help you hear better.

Is that a hearing aid, or solely Tinnitus Noiser?

It's always been bewildering me why so many concerts are this loud. It's definitely far louder than it was in the '60s, something I've asked engineers who worked in rock and pop music at that time. Like I get that rock music is typically played louder than anything else, but the gulf has become ridiculous. When I went to see Superchunk this summer, I had good ear plugs in and it still sounded REALLY loud. A friend who was with me had no hearing protection, and his ears were ringing badly the next day. (His hearing was already damaged from years of shows, but having early on-set of tinnitus doesn't somehow shield your hearing from further damage.) I went to see Kurt Elling last week and sat in the very front row. Didn't need any hearing protection at all - volume was perfect. I imagine it's possible that Superchunk needed it louder for themselves - a middle-aged rock band that's toured regularly for decades probably doesn't hear that well at this point - but a jazz vocalist for a variety reasons probably has good hearing into middle-age and probably never has anything amplified to the point where it starts to overwhelm their own voice.

also wanna point out this isn't just a "getting old" thing, I have always felt this way. my first "real" concert was the Moody Blues at the age of 18 (lol) and the main thing I remember was some of those guitar solos just searing into my head. it was actually physically painful, and it sounded like garbage because it just drowned out everything else. it was a good show otherwise though!

It's always been bewildering me why so many concerts are this loud. It's definitely far louder than it was in the '60s, something I've asked engineers who worked in rock and pop music at that time.

The Who show I saw in 1989 was one of the loudest I've ever seen (based on the minute or so when I had to change out my earplugs). But later Who shows -- 2006 and 2022, specifically -- felt like I almost didn't need earplugs at all. So maybe it depends on the act.

A problem I run into a lot, though, is when drums are miked in small rooms. They're drums. We can fucking hear them.

voted "yes - a lot, but i accept it for the life i have lived .."

a stupidly loud Gary Numan show a year or so back has created even more permanent damage in my left ear, a more low-pitched fluttery sound, not like the typical tinnitus whine.

― sleeve, Thursday, June 18, 2015 5:14 PM (seven years ago)

this has improved significantly but I still get it sometimes

re: excessive volume, I read a great David Mancuso quote recently where he said something like "if you can hear the system and not the music, either it's too loud or you need a better system"

we were going to see mclusky this month but the show was canceled because of the lead singer's tinnitis/hyperacusis. really hope he gets better, what he's dealing with sounds really horrific.

an announcement x pic.twitter.com/FUYFl4qvlA

— falcotronic (@shit_rock) November 25, 2022

yeah ears are weird, in high school I had tinnitus in my right ear which was odd because I hadn't been anywhere particularly loud. but it really did affect me, my head was cocked a lot because otherwise the uneven sound would annoy me. it bothered me enough that I had to sleep with a fan or some ambient noise at least up until my first year of college. and then I just one day noticed it either wasn't there anymore, or my brain had adjusted to the point where I dont think about it anymore

Is that a hearing aid, or solely Tinnitus Noiser?

I'd never heard of the second thing till your post; I think they're just hearing aids (?).

Also: movie theaters! I now take my musician's ear plugs whenever I see a film, because they are all so loud. And I don't even mean action films--even non-explodey stuff like Bones and All or The Menu were uncomfortable at the two theaters I saw them at. In fact, I think my hearing troubles started when I saw the Grateful Dead documentary in the cinema a few years ago; in addition to to the volume, the treble was really cranked up and I left the place with my ears ringing. I regret staying with my hands over my ears rather than simply leaving.

i measured the db level with my iphone during a trailer last time i was in a theater - think it reached high 80s / low 90s briefly during explosions.

Anyone have any (musician’s) earplug recommendations? I damaged my hearing practicing waaaaay too loud with a headphone amp and a Sunn O))) distortion pedal. Go figure. Ever since it’s been a persistent 8kHz whine.

It got so bad I even joined the Columbia ketamine tinnitus study! Which was pretty wild as experienced go — imagine getting medical grade ketamine intravenously while in an MRI machine — but also, sadly, didn’t make any difference at all.

etymotics is the go-to for earplugs, imo.

Also: movie theaters! I now take my musician's ear plugs whenever I see a film, because they are all so loud. And I don't even mean action films--even non-explodey stuff like Bones and All or The Menu were uncomfortable at the two theaters I saw them at. In fact, I think my hearing troubles started when I saw the Grateful Dead documentary in the cinema a few years ago; in addition to to the volume, the treble was really cranked up and I left the place with my ears ringing. I regret staying with my hands over my ears rather than simply leaving.

This elderly person sat next to me at EO, the new Jerzy Skolimowski film, and when they showed all the promo stuff before the movie, she immediately said out loud "oh no...it's too soft!" which I totally did not agree with, but she went over to an usher and told them. When the movie starts, it's clearly pushed up, and unfortunately there are stretches of loud, intense music that were so fucking loud my ears started to buzz - I actually had to put my fingers over my ears.

I've asked for theater volume to be lowered once or twice. I feel like a dick when I do things like this... usually I just put a hood & hands over my ears and suffer

I've been tempted to do that at some restaurants in my neighborhood. They're all designed in that Millennial industrial style, where the ambient music just bounces around on metal ceilings or white concrete walls and it seems impossible not to sit by a ceiling speaker. If I have to raise my voice to give an order to the server, it's too loud!

I read once that some places do that on purpose, to discourage lingering so there's a higher table turnover. Cruel, IMO.

I just took 280 Y7s to a pantomime and fuck ME was it loud. Every time the performers encouraged the kids to scream, I had to cover my ears.

And yes, I am questioning my life choices.

I helped some friends shoot an amateur video almost 15 years ago. It wasn't especially loud but I remember being sick that night. The next day my ears were ringing non-stop and I was concerned / mildly depressed for three weeks. After that I was checking it periodically / getting used to it. I started taking precautions. After a year or two I wasn't sure anymore what was tinnitus and what is basically the normal sound of your body (blood circulating etc), I couldn't remember what silence was before. Right now, I can't say if it never went away, if some of it is left, if the ear cured itself. I'm just grateful it's not to the levels some people have it.

etymotics is the go-to for earplugs, imo.

I don't *think* this is tinnitus but a) wasn't sure where else to put it and b) was wondering if anyone had or does experience this...

I've always listened to lots of music and have seen well over 300 bands over the years. I wore some form of headphones/earphones every day for the best part of 20 years. So I'd be the perfect candidate for some form of tinnitus/hearing degradation I guess. My ears don't ring, as such, but I do experience a particular kind of discomfort in certain circumstances, which means I'm not really listening to much music at all.

Broadly, gigs are still fine (when I go to them) and, say, the cinema is fine. It's when I listen to music in a confined space - particularly the car, playing at home or in my classroom - or on headphones for an extended period (say, over 30 minutes) that I suffer and it feels like a kind of pressure inside the ears or a thickening of the eardrums. It's not painful, as such, but it is debilitating and I know when it occurs it'll be three days of feeling disconnected and I won't be able to listen to much of anything at all.

Anyway, I was wondering if anyone had any experience or idea of what I can do. I've had problems with wax build-up, and have this treated every year or so but this particular phenomenon can come on anywhere within that cycle. The last time I had the wax removal I had an ear test and was told my hearing was broadly fine for my age.

Post is down to all the amazing lists on ilm and the frustration at not being able to listen to any of them (certainly not with any real interest or freedom)!

Apologies if this was tmi or gauche in any way. I was hoping someone might say, 'oh, that sounds like this, here's a solution'. I should speak to a doctor/audiologist.

It doesn't sound like tinnitus--I've never felt pressure--but does sound like something brought on by hearing loss...not an expert! But you many need to look into hearing aids.

definitely talk to a doctor or hearing specialist, yes

my experience of tinnitus and mild hearing loss is that it's purely an auditory thing and quite different from wax-related issues -- but i am definitely recommended not to listen to music on headphones any more (unfortunately)

I have experience my tinnitus as pressure, early on, but I think that was because my mental health went straight into the toilet during those early months of tinnitus. see an ENT if you can!

I've had wax in ears before, about 15 years ago at least and it didn't ended up hurting a lot and all I could hear was like high pitched squealing. The nurse wouldn't syringe my ears and I had to drop almond oil in my ears several times a day for weeks until it cleared it. The nurse said that syringing ears risks permanent hearloss.

(there's also an ear wax thread: is everyone allowed their own ear wax thread? )

Thanks y'all. I've been through the wax cycle about five times by now; I'm probably due another visit and I can ask about the wider issues while I'm there.

yea that doesn't sound like tinnitus to me. it does sound like something that probably could be diagnosed but you kinda have to get lucky with the right doctor in these situations

on a similar note I'm wondering if I just have sensitive hearing because I've had times where I've been in a bar and music would be playing extremely loudly - like to the extent that you'd have to yell to talk to the person next to you - and nobody else seems to be bothered by it. after like 10 minutes I have to step outside. is it me...?

I was cooking dinner last night and listening to music on a Bluetooth speaker; the speaker was sitting on a worktop and I could feel it was affecting me even at low volumes. It's not pain but an accretion of pressure - like the ears becoming clogged with cotton wool or something. Argh. Anyway, I'll speak to the docs.

I'm with you on that frogbs. I'd have a certain tolerance and then want to leave.

That sounds maddening.

reply to thread title: I didn't until you reminded me

on a similar note I'm wondering if I just have sensitive hearing because I've had times where I've been in a bar and music would be playing extremely loudly(...)

Some of us must have a hypersensitivity thing... just something like dropping ice cubes into a bowl can make me wince. I have a heavy aluminum ice cream scoop (it was a gift, lol) that makes a particularly hash ringing sound if it hits the countertop that f's up my ear for like 20 mins...

I know some ppl wear special earplugs out & about, to reduce high frequencies or something (at least I've seen them advised on Instagram), but I'd feel kind of silly going that route. I have thought about taking earplugs next time I go to a movie though. (I used to be "triggered" fairly easily by environmental noise, to the point it was interfering with my life... it's actually gotten better since the incident last winter that I wrote about upthread. Maybe it was a blessing in disguise.)

you can get pretty nice earplugs, molded to your own ears, with very specific characteristics eg cutting the volume by 50% but without distorting the EQ of what you're hearing... i imagine some people on this thread know a thing or two about those.

I just heard it pronounced "tín-nit-tus" recently when I'd been hearing tin-EYE-tis forever.

Those with ear discomfort, do you get accompanying jaw issues as well?

I only notice how bad my tinnitus ringing is when I'm in a completely silent room, it's quite horrifying to think this is actually going on all the time!

ha same

left ear 24/7, right ear is infrequent

I find myself turning towards people with my right ear to hear them more clearly, I'm clearly due for a tin ear trumpet

My sister-in-law has been struggling with it in both ears for several years, and is trying this treatment: https://www.lenire.com/what-is-lenire/

She's 4 weeks in and noticing improvement. Supposedly around 6 weeks is when most folks really notice a big difference.

^ same, left ear rings 24/7, maybe a little in the right one, hard to tell. Kind of amazing how quickly I got used to it at the onset. I can now go weeks without even thinking about it, even though I know it is there. And yes, my jaw pops when I chew, which I have been told can be related to the ringing but is not in itself problematic.

(Referring to xxp, of course.)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x2x2X4-NEto