Define "old school"/"classic"

How much time needs to pass before music moves into "old school" or "classic" status? Is this a sliding scale or do you have fixed eras in your mind that you consider to be "old school" or "classic"?

In 2004, my students referred to Titanic as old school.

I think these things usually break up at defining points

Like, I like to think of the "old school" rap boundary moving from the first Run-DMC album to, later, The Chronic.

I still think of Biggie as "new school" so w/e

for me, classic = the epitome or outstanding example of a genre or art form while old school = the founding works or genesis of an evolving genre

I was talking recently with a friend (and somehow thought I started a thread about this topic, but I guess I didn't?) about how we both grew up with moms playing "classic rock" radio, and how a lot of that stuff was actually not all that old in the late 1980s when we were listening to it, even though it seemed immensely old to us. E.g. Physical Graffiti is only about four years older than me, so when my mom was listening to songs from it and I was ten, it was only a 14-year-old record, i.e. only about as old as, say Amnesiac is today, or Discovery, or The Blueprint, yet none of those records feel "old" to me.

classic rock = pre-punk/before 1976
old school rap = ended around the time Mr. Ness became Scorpio, i.e. Run DMC kick-started the new school

in my mind old-school rap = pre-NWA

the urban adult contemporary/gospel hybrid station here converted to a new format last year that bills itself as "throwback hip-hop and r&b". in radio-programming-land the format seems to be known as "classic hip-hop" and is rather popular recently. according to these programmers the definition of "classic" is apparently "from 2005 or earlier" -- in addition to a lot of 90s fare i hear "hate it or love it" and the college dropout singles all the time on it.

another station, which officially has an urban oldies format, bills itself as "old school... and today's r&b!" (the latter part was added after the other station converted formats and it started subsuming some of the urban ac (but not gospel!) staples into its programming, like kem, ledisi, anthony hamilton, jill scott etc.) here "old school" appears to mean "from the 70s or 80s or maaaaybe 90s". occasionally they'll throw in ashanti's "foolish" or ginuwine's "differences".

anyways my personal usage: "classic" = something great, outstanding, regardless of release year or w/e; "old school" = meaningless term

hardly anything released after 1965 is referred to as a "Golden Oldie" but "Old School" continues to eat through time to take in whatever came out ten years ago

i think it all varies? it is really more of a relative thing, some things are on a "sliding scale" and some are more fixed. i mean there are plenty of "classic rock" songs from the 80s past m coleman's deadline that i think are pretty commonly regarded as "classic rock"

i was born in 83 and there are plenty of people my age who call biggie/pac old-school rap, i don't necessarily do the same but i don't begrudge them

there are plenty of people my age who call biggie/pac old-school rap

btw these are not rap or music nerds i am talking about to be clear

My local "hip hop and hits!" station, which is easily my favorite station in the area, does their "Back in the Day Buffet" daily around noon. Nothing earlier than 1993, and last week they played something from Tha Carter III, which is only 7 years old.

i mean i think there are a decent amount of people who would call any 90s rap "old school" and again i am assuming we are talking about how people generally use these terms to describe periods of music, i am not assuming that we are doing a hardcore rap nerd chronology of various rap eras

i mean there are plenty of "classic rock" songs from the 80s past m coleman's deadline that i think are pretty commonly regarded as "classic rock"

It does feel a little weird when songs that hadn't been released yet when Classic Rock was already a format enter the CR canon.

I heard Fuzzy Logic ft. Egypt's 'In The Morning' (from 2009) on a Kiss FM old-skool radio show two years ago. Part of me was thinking that the transition to old-skool is quicker than ever, the other part of me was thinking that this is just part of getting old.

I started this thread due to a discussion with a friend on Facebook about "Buddy Holly" being used in a minivan ad making her feel old; I responded with "what makes me feel old is when the local hip-hop station starts their 'old-school' block with Juvenile and Master P" and that made me wonder what "old-school" actually meant to people. I then started thinking about a lot of music I considered "classic rock" when I was growing up (Rush, Led Zepplin, AC/DC, Black Sabbath, The Doors, etc etc etc) and how some of the specific songs I heard on the "classic rock" station were barely five years old when I was hearing them.

It's an interesting perception thing, seeing how people slot stuff into these frames of reference based on when they first heard them, and I was curious if there was actually any consensus about what these terms mean.

know it when i hear it - filthy beats and huge vibes

I then started thinking about a lot of music I considered "classic rock" when I was growing up (Rush, Led Zepplin, AC/DC, Black Sabbath, The Doors, etc etc etc) and how some of the specific songs I heard on the "classic rock" station were barely five years old when I was hearing them.

Yeah this is exactly what I was talking about upthread, and having that thought alone also made me see my parents a little differently, like it helped me picture them as, at the time, people approximately my age listening to music from their college and post-college years rather than big old grownups listening to *old* music.

10 years since Andy Carroll scored his first goal for Liverpool, still shown around the world today, weird to think he was on the same pitch as Daft Punk that day

Most of the dinosaurs were old school, both in their disdain for warm bloodedness, and in their tackling. Yet many dinosaurs of the Cretaceous period received their schooling at La Masia, and were on the earth at the same time as the aeroplane

From memory it seems like the term "classic rock" was introduced pretty sneakily in the '80s, whereby one day you might be listening to a regular AOR station and the next day it had become a Classic Rock station, though the playlist was essentially unchanged

this is relative to the genre in question imo

yes, completely relative. In my lifetime, I've seen "old school" hip hop go from Sugarhill Gang and Run DMC stuff, to Public Enemy and NWA, and now to Biggie/Tupac era stuff. I guess next up is Outkast and Ludacris?

Interesting to me is what actually sticks. Like, what kids are talking about Sugarhill Gang anymore? In the classic rock angle, plenty of people still talk about the Beatles and Led Zeppelin, but a band like The Police, who were practically saviors for AOR/classic rock radio in the 80s, are almost totally ignored. Can a defunct "come back"?

Ha, just heard the Police the other day on the "classic rock" station. They actually get a fair amount of airplay here, though it's the usual suspects ("Message in a Bottle," "Roxanne," "Don't Stand so Close to Me"...and that's pretty much it).

I hate the Police so this is a good thing imo

I think the Police def still have fans (of the type who listen to Classic Rock radio) but yeah it doesn't seem like younger people would care about them--but then again they're also too young to have been turned off by Sting's solo career

ugh i hate the police

The guy across from me at work listens to a "classic rock" station all day and I've heard a lot more Guns N' Roses than I would have expected based on the CR stations (New York used to have two) I remember from the 80s. Also, Van Halen's "I'll Wait" has somehow become classic rock, even though it's basically a synth-pop song with David Lee Roth on vocals. Weird.

i mean stone temple pilots are played on classic rock stations

"old school" is everything up until Kool Moe Dee says "put that ba-diddy-ba bullshit on hold" in the first round of his battle with Busy Bee

For me, "old school" = everything released before I was born, and from birth up until my early teens, and "new school" = everything after that.

1986!

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/4/46/BackToTheOldSchool.jpg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TJ_pMvY1IEM

it's relative. it's a youth thing. when i was growing up (born in 83), old school meant like lowrider funk and gap band and zapp.. now tupac is old school. n-sync is old school.

3 dollar bill yall is old school

I'm taking it back to the old school
'Cause I'm an old fool who's so cool

I say Skoal to those that don't have schools!

I recently realized I'm comfortable calling stuff from the 90s old school, or at least up til about 96/97 or so. Like "Back & Forth" is old school to me, but "One in a Million" isn't.

The old school lunch on the rhythmic station here (hosted by Sir Mix-a-Lot! not that he has any discretion over what the Clear Channel overlords want played) only plays stuff from like 1999-2008 and that trips me out. Then I remember when I started listening to that station in the mid-late 90s, the old school lunch would play like "Just a Friend" and "Kiss You Back" and "Boom I Fucked Your Boyfriend" which were all only a handful of years old, so it's all relative. The adult rhythmic station here bills itself as "throwbacks" although they occasionally use the term "old school" (plus their "classic hiphop Sunday"). They play mostly stuff from the 90s and 2000s with a sprinkling of 80s but also stuff as recent as like "Blurred Lines" or "Happy".

I don't listen to the radio much but my wife does when she's in the car and has recently put the local "old school R&B and hip hop" station in rotation and they play all sorts of really old shit. my wife insists she hears Frankie Smith's Double Dutch Bus "at least once a day" for ex. And are *always* ready to cue up "More Bounce to the Ounce". maybe this is kind of a bay area-specific thing tho

i hear "more bounce to the ounce" here all the time too. but not "double dutch bus" sadly :( :(

this thread title keeps making me think of this song:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mnl7Q_IBXbw

which I find slightly corny even though it's pretty good --