Integrate Your Series and Fill a Cloud-Chamber POLL: Ballot Poll for Notated Music Since 1890 NOMINATIONS THREAD

Criteria for eligibility:
- The piece of music was written in 1890 or later.
- The piece of music was conceived and completed primarily in notated, rather than recorded or oral, form. Open (e.g. Terry Riley - In C) or graphic (e.g. Earle Brown - December 1952) is acceptable.
- As per Jon, "works which are sets of smaller pieces but clearly packaged by the composer as a cycle to be performed as such should count as one work (e.g. Debussy preludes book I: a single work)". Stockhausen's Klavierstücken would all count as individual works, however.

Discussions about favourite recordings/performances are encouraged but will not be taken into account when it comes to nominating or voting. You are voting for a composition, not a recording.

Included: most Western art music, electroacoustic music that is scored (e.g. Stockhausen - Kontakte), much big band music (e.g. Ellington), significant amounts of early 20th century pop (but if you nominate "St. Louis Blues", you are nominating W. C. Handy's composition, not the Bessie Smith/Louis Armstrong recording), some film and musical scores, a lot of Zappa

Excluded: most jazz and pop since 1945, improvised music, electroacoustic music that is not scored or where an after-the-fact visual 'score' was produced as a listening guide (e.g. Ligeti - Artikulation)

I'll set a limit of 50 nominations per person.

Nominations will be accepted until 11:59 pm Eastern Time on March 11.

Could a mod add "NOMINATIONS THREAD" to the end of the thread title?

Let's start with something obvious:

Arnold Schoenberg - Pierrot Lunaire

1/50

Nominations will be viewable here: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/159pi7X3auJv4xPfuNSx-427tclquh5MHBkc40F4GIHI/edit#gid=0
Please nominate on the thread, though.

John Cage - Sonatas and Interludes for the Prepared Piano

2/50

really looking forward to this, hopefully we get a lot of ballots! Here are all of my noms, but I'm going to be seriously mining this poll for new discoveries.

Bela Bartok - Music for Strings, Percussion and Celesta
Bela Bartok - Concerto for Orchestra
Bela Bartok - String Quartet no. 1
Bela Bartok - String Quartet no. 2
Bela Bartok - String Quartet no. 3
Bela Bartok - String Quartet no. 4
Bela Bartok - String Quartet no. 5
Bela Bartok - String Quartet no. 6
Bela Bartok - Mikrokosmos
Claude Debussy - String Quartet in G minor
Claude Debussy - Prelude to the Afternoon of A Faun
Claude Debussy - Nocturnes
Claude Debussy - La mer
Claude Debussy - Etudes
Claude Debussy - Preludes (bks 1&2)
Claude Debussy - Children's Corner
Philip Glass - Music in 12 Parts
Philip Glass - Einstein On the Beach
Gerard Grisey - Les espaces acoustiques
Scott Joplin - Solace
Rued Langgaard - Sfærernes Musik
Gyorgy Ligeti - Atmosphères
Gyorgy Ligeti - Lontano
Gyorgy Ligeti - Requiem
Gyorgy Ligeti - Lux Aeterna
Gyorgy Ligeti - Études pour piano (bks 1-3)
Olivier Messiaen - Préludes
Olivier Messiaen - L'Ascension
Olivier Messiaen - Quatuor pour la fin du temps
Olivier Messiaen - Trois petites liturgies de la présence divine
Per Norgard - Voyage into the Golden Screen
Per Norgard - Symphony No. 2
Per Norgard - Symphony No. 3
Per Norgard - Libra
Maurice Ravel - String Quartet in F
Maurice Ravel - Rapsodie espagnole
Maurice Ravel - Gaspard de la nuit
Maurice Ravel - Valses nobles et sentimentales
Maurice Ravel - Boléro
Steve Reich - Drumming
Steve Reich - Four Organs
Steve Reich - Music for Mallet Instruments, Voices and Organ
Ottorino Respighi - Pines of Rome
Jean Sibelius - Symphony No. 4
Jean Sibelius - Tapiola
Igor Stravinsky - Firebird
Igor Stravinsky - Petrushka
Igor Stravinsky - The Rite of Spring
Igor Stravinsky - Les Noces
Igor Stravinsky - Agon

50/50

Alban Berg - Lulu
Alban Berg - Lyric Suite
John Cage - Imaginary Landscape no. 1
John Cage - In a Landscape
Morton Feldman - Rothko Chapel
George Gershwin (with Dubose Heyward and Ira Gershwin) - Porgy & Bess
Olivier Messiaen - Vingt Regards sur L'enfant-Jesus
Olivier Messiaen - Turangalîla-Symphonie
Anna Thorvaldsdottir - In the Light of Air
Kurt Weill (with Bertolt Brecht) - The Rise and Fall of the City of Mahagonny
Kurt Weill (with Bertolt Brecht) - Threepenny Opera
Anton Webern - Symphony op. 21

12/50

Luciano Berio - Sinfonia
Steve Reich - Different Trains
Steve Reich - Piano Phase
Erik Satie - Gnossiennes

16/50

Gabriel Faure - Requiem in D minor (1893 church version)
Lili Boulanger - Clairières dans le ciel
John Tavener - Towards Silence
Heitor Villa-Lobos - Bachianas Brasileiras No. 1
Sofia Gubaidulina - Sieben Worte
Francis Poulenc - Concerto for organ, timpani and strings in G minor
Arvo Pärt - Summa
Duke Ellington - The Far East Suite
Unsuk Chin - Šu for sheng and orchestra
John Williams - Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade (original soundtrack)
Germaine Tailleferre - Concertino for harp and orchestra

11/50

Imogen Holst - Mass in A minor
Gustav Holst - The Planets
Benjamin Britten - War Requiem
Benjamin Britten - Serenade for tenor, horn and strings
Laurie Spiegel - East River Dawn
Iannis Xenakis - Pléïades
Yamashiro Shoji (with Geinoh Yamashirogumi) - Akira (original soundtrack)
Sofia Gubaidulina - Silenzio
Arvo Pärt - Stabat mater for choir and string orchestra
Marilyn Mazur - Jordsange (Earth Songs)
Duke Ellington - Black, Brown, and Beige
Edvard Grieg - Bell-Ringing (orchestral version arranged by Anton Seidl)
Edward Elgar - Sea Pictures
Lili Boulanger - Psaume 130: Du fond de l'abîme
Jean Sibelius - Jedermann (Everyman) (incidental music for play)

26/50

Weirdly enough it looks like I'll have time on my hands this weekend so I'll compile a list.

A few things (or questions) from me:

- Anything obscure and I'll try and upload it - can I do that? But in my most instances I'll try and check whether youtube has it. Otherwise its pointless as I need to give you all a chance to hear it.
- Braxton's For Alto is notated isn't it? Or open form? I'm sure its hugely informed by improvisation. We'll need a cut of that, no composer matches his compositions for saxophone.
- I think we should ban Zappa for a LOL but there you go.

Hildur Guðnadóttir ‎- Without Sinking
Sergey Rachmaninoff - All-Night Vigil
Leoš Janáček - Glagolitic Mass
Galina Grigorjeva - Nox vitae

30/50

I'd love to nominate Vangelis' Heaven and Hell, but I don't really know whether it was notated..? I guess the choral parts must've been, at least.

Also, what's the judgment on modern arrangements of traditional melodies? Is something like Alice Coltrane's string arrangement of "Hare Krishna" valid?

I wondered about stuff like Terry Riley's Rainbow in Curved Air, or Steve Reich's tape pieces -- none of it notated, but pretty big in the sphere we're polling

I like the "conceived and completed primarily in notated, rather than recorded or oral, form" criterion and tempted to argue it should be applied strictly. OTOH "Come Out" and "It's Gonna Rain" both regularly performed in concert halls, as are Stockhausen's tape pieces...

Yeah, I think a strict limitation to notated music is good, because otherwise the poll would open up to stuff like electronic music and (improvised) jazz, becoming way too over-reaching.

And I don't want to see yet another poll with Aphex Twin in the top 20... (Though I guess that one Philip Glass orchestration of him is fair game according to the current rules.)

Vangelis has always composed by recording his improvisations. For things like the choir in h&h yeah somebody had to notate his material for the performers. But I'm inclined to say Vangelis = uncannily notated-sounding but not notated.

Here's another edge case: scelsi. He would improvise and have his assistant notate it from the tapes.

I don't want to assault this thread with edge cases though, that kind of talk can eventually become stymying.

Thanks for the info, I'm fine with leaving Vangelis out in that case.

Charles Koechlin - The Jungle Book
Miriam Gideon - Steeds of Darkness
Maurice Duruflé - Prélude et fugue sur le nom d'Alain
Maurice Duruflé - Requiem
Mirjam Tally - Iha ongi õis
Olivier Messiaen - La Nativité du Seigneur
John Tavener - The Protecting Veil
Elodie Lauten - The Death of Don Juan
Benjamin Britten - Cello Symphony
Sofia Gubaidulina - The Canticle of the Sun
Hubert Parry - An English Suite, for string orchestra

41/50

Yeah, the criterion is whether the music is notated, not whether it gets played in concert halls, or whether it gets included in the same books and survey courses as notated music, or whether it was composed by someone who also composes notated music. It's a relatively objective criterion, not a social category or artistic evaluation.

We could argue for days about whether Aphex Twin or Miles Davis should be categorized as 'art music', etc.

Also, thanks for nominating, everyone! Great noms so far.

well, a lot of Miles Davis stuff, esp pre fusion era, was notated. I'm treating this poll basically as a classical music poll, because if I think a lot about jazz, I could easily double or triple the size of my ballot (and then it kind of loses meaning for me -- haha, also most of my own music is notated, and I'm sure there are other rock/pop artists who can say the same)

Yeah, I was think of the fusion stuff with that comment. Sketches of Spain is fair game, as is U Totem or any other notated pop/rock music. The criterion has to do with how the music is created more than what it sounds like.

I was wondering if anyone was going to list 50 Tin Pan Alley tunes.

I'm not sure if I'm too much of a dilettante to properly participate in this, but my first nomination:

Cornelius Cardew - Treatise

Dom's nominations are all in the spreadsheet now.

Braxton's For Alto is notated isn't it? Or open form? I'm sure its hugely informed by improvisation. We'll need a cut of that, no composer matches his compositions for saxophone.

Does anyone know the answer to this? I know Braxton has done plenty of notated (if open-score) music but, somehow, I thought this album was free improvisation?

Harry Partch - The Wayward
Frederic Rzewski - Coming Together
Leo Brouwer - El Decameron Negro

Anything obscure and I'll try and upload it - can I do that?

Fine with me.

any other notated pop/rock music.

What are more examples? Zappa, Dominique, Slyde. I should probably know the answer but did Steely Dan do this?

(and obv U Totem)

Busy with work deadlines right now but I'm going to nominate a fair amt of Zappa. In the spirit of the poll I'm going to avoid things that, as much as I love them, really do seem to have been written strictly as jazz pieces (eg "Blessed Relief"). In fact, here's my start:

Frank Zappa - Lumpy Gravy
Frank Zappa - Holiday in Berlin

2/50

of bands I know, Fred Frith (and Art Bears/Henry Cow -- tho much of this was done later in order to play live), Thinking Plague, Zs (I remember seeing them ca 2007 or so, and it was just the band facing each other, buried in their music stands), just saw some sheet music that Tatsuya Yoshida posted on Facebook the other day of Ruins tunes

There's probably a lot more than you think, really

oh, and bands like Mr Bungle, Sleepytime Gorilla Museum, Naked City -- there's an alternate canon to be compiled out there called "conservatory prog" ;)

OK, wow, I always thought of Lumpy Gravy as a musique concrète thing. Apparently, it was originally a scored orchestral piece that Zappa ended up taping, chopping up, and re-editing due to a contract dispute?

There's probably a lot more than you think, really

None of those examples surprise me that much. All are totally within the bounds of this poll. (Art Bears/Henry Cow might not fit based your description.) I didn't know Mr. Bungle did this but it makes sense.

Also, what's the judgment on modern arrangements of traditional melodies? Is something like Alice Coltrane's string arrangement of "Hare Krishna" valid?

I would lean against including these (e.g. Berio - Folk Songs) most of the time but there could be a case where the composer has added enough that it deserves to be nominated as a composition in its own right.

I cannot admit art bears into the pool because I have this down to 50 choices finally I think, and they are my favorite prog band

Someone else nom them

Gentle Giant sound as if they must have been notated

Alice Coltrane - Going Home
Peeter Vähi - Maria Magdalena, oratorio based on the Coptic codex
Charles Mingus - Epitaph
Elizabeth Brown - Seahorse

45/50

ok, here's 39 for you

airat ichmouratov - string quartet no. 2
mont campbell (national health) - zabaglione
dmitry shostakovich - op. 87 preludes and fugues
alexei stanchinsky - piano sonata in e flat minor
andre jolivet - concerto pour percussion

alfred schnittke - concerto for choir
alexander scriabin - sonata no. 9
andrzej panufnik - symphony no. 9
magnus lindberg - cello concerto
arnold schoenberg - concerto for string quartet and orchestra (after handel)

bela bartok - sonata for two pianos and percussion
ben johnston - suite for microtonal piano
carl orff - catulli carmina
conlon nancarrow - study for player piano no. 3
david maslanka - crown of thorns

einojuhani rautavaara - piano concerto #1
eric ewazen - marimba concerto
joseph schwantner - velocities (moto perpetuo)
harry partch - and on the seventh day petals fell on petaluma
harry partch - barstow

josef matthias hauer - apokalyptische phantasie
karel husa - apotheosis of this earth
karol szymanowski - violin concerto no. 2
bela bartok - violin concerto no. 2
george antheil - ballet mecanique

frederic rzewski - the people united will never be defeated!
manuel de falla - harpsichord concerto
henryk gorecki - harpsichord concerto
maurice ravel - miroirs
claude vivier - zipangu

steve reich - city life
jean sibelius - symphony no. 7
dmitry shostakovich - symphony no. 5
caroline shaw - partita for 8 voices
rodion shchedrin - sotto voce concerto for cello and orchestra

pavel haas - string quartet no. 2 "from the monkey mountain"
ruth crawford seeger - 3 chants
francis poulenc - sextet for piano and wind quintet
witold lutoslawski - cello concerto

anybody know if comus' "malgaard suite" was notated? whenever lindsay cooper gets involved i start suspecting notation...

Woo hoo rushomancy you just freed up a spot on my 50 thanks!

(Bartok 2pno Perc sonata)

Sweet list btw

Husa's Apotheosis... is intriguing. I've not knowingly heard him before.

Quite looking forward to this poll, even if I just end up lurking.

jon: thanks! i just threw a lot bunch of random stuff with the "classical" genre tag from my library in (i skew towards 20th century in my tastes anyhow). dominique freed up three spots on mine (stravinsky's les noces, ligeti's etudes, and sibelius's tapiola).

for pieces with multiple revisions, do we have to specify which revision we're talking about, or is that getting too far in the weeds?

Hm, that's interesting. I'm going to say that revisions don't need to be specified but I'll adjust that if e.g. it turns out that there are two contingents who really want to vote for the different versions of "El Polifemo de Oro".

Heitor Villa-Lobos - Douze études pour guitare

3/50

20/50

olivier messiaen - chronochromie
olivier messiaen - et exspecto resurrectionem mortuorum
witold lutosławski - string quartet
krzysztof penderecki - stabat mater
karlheinz stockhausen - stimmung
karlheinz stockhausen - prozession
luciano berio - laborintus 2
györgy ligeti - volumina
john cage - variations ii
john cage - fontana mix
mauricio kagel - musik für renaissance-instrumente
roberto gerhard - collages (symphony no. 3)
iannis xenakis - anaktoria
toru takemitsu - cassiopeia
harrison birtwistle - tragoedia
harrison birtwistle - triumph of time
carla bley - 3/4 for piano & orchestra
robert crumb - ancient voices of children
edgard varèse - ionisation
moondog - witch of endor

i do believe these all fit the criteria (...though not totally sure about prozession)

~George~ crumb

argh! *shamefaced*

Anton Bruckner - Symphony No. 9
Arthur Honneger - Symphony No. 2
Arthur Honneger - Symphony No. 3 "Symphonie Liturgique"
Gustav Mahler - Symphony No. 3
Gustav Mahler - Symphony No. 4
Gustav Mahler - Symphony No. 5
Gustav Mahler - Symphony No. 6
Gustav Mahler - Symphony No. 7
Gustav Mahler - Symphony No. 9
Erik Satie - Parade
Erik Satie - Relâche
William Walton with Edith Sitwell - Façade
Sergei Prokofiev - Symphony No. 1 "Classical"
Cornelius Cardew - The Great Learning

that was one of the questionable ones: could only find the one reference to a graphic score & not sure how reliable that is... no mention in the lp notes about a score used, so i have no problem with its being excluded.

Leo Brouwer - El Decamerón negro

Duplicate. You have one more nomination, cock chirea.

Radigue - Naldjorlak (for cello, only heard about a couple of mins of it, go with the gut instinct)

listening to a ton of Sibelius lately, and coming to the conclusion I can only handle him for about an hour before I start to get fed up, and need to put on Varese or Stravinsky or something. For a curmudgeonly alcoholic, he sure beat around the lush prettiness bush a lot.

Ha, I don't think it would occur to me to listen to Sibelius for more than an hour at a time. His software is pretty good, though [ / rimshot].

yeah, you can get through all of his symphonies in the course of the work day. And then come to hate him.

you guys are utterly insane IMO. what does beating around the lush prettiness bush mean? Pretty much all of his work is beautiful, yes, but that description makes it sound like you're sitting there waiting for something important to happen and there is pretty much never a moment when something important ISN'T happening in the symphonies or tone poems (confession: I do think sym 2 beats around the lush prettiness bush)

the incidental music for the theater is where he allows himself to be merely luscious and pretty, but he's always so concise in that music.

well, it's not a great description, I admit. After a while, I feel like his music is predictable -- lush prettiness -> sudden dramatic interjection -> drawn out consideration of interjection -> back to lush prettiness -> repeat. Also, although I actually like his harmony, after a while, it just feels like eating too much sugar. I feel *sick* of it, aesthetically speaking. There is a lot of reveling in certain moods and harmonies, and to be honest, it does begin to sound like music made by someone who might have been drunk when he did it, where all the moods and lushness wash over the ears in a soothing way. Like I say, I like it for about an hour, and then I start to get annoyed, over-saturated.

By contrast, I never feel this way listening to Debussy, who to me, seems like the closest analog to Sibelius in a classical vein that's closer to where I come from. I can listen to him, and though I'll eventually want to hear something else, it's not because I'm just totally over what he's doing, rather an organic need for something else.

And keep in mind I nominated two Sibelius pieces! It's not like I hate the guy.

In this interview, Wendy Carlos said that Digital Moonscapes was notated but Beauty was not so I am excluding the latter. I will include the Clockwork Orange score for now, since I'm guessing that Carlos was probably notating things at that stage. Does anyone know for sure about this one?

Karlheinz Stockhausen - Mikrophonie II

51/55

I need to confess something: until now, I thought Nino Rota was a woman named "Nina" [ / did not study film music].

xpost

What parts of the Clockwork Orange soundtrack weren't adapted from existing classical music or songs? Wiki lists something called "Timesteps" by Carlos, but it seems to be the only thing not taken from a classical piece. (but I can't remember other incidental stuff that Carlos might have provided...)

There's this, which includes some more original incidental music by Carlos, although about half still seems to be adaptations.

Federico Torroba - Castles of Spain

52/55

Youtube for the Stockhausen

Wait, how did we miss this?:

Bela Bartok - Allegro Barbaro

53/55

Especially with Keith Emerson in our thoughts this week!

final 5 + 2 substitutes:

niccolò castiglioni - gyro
harrison birtwistle - chronometer
leo brouwer - sonata pian e forte
sylvano bussotti - per tre sul piano
roberto gerhard - concerto for orchestra
lejaren hiller/robert baker - computer cantata
hans werner henze - compases para preguntas ensimismadas

I decided to include "Timesteps" rather than the Clockwork Orange score since the latter is not really a complete original composition. If you would rather nominate something else, please let me know, calzino.

That is fine, it was one of them moments where straight after Submit Post I thought "oops, I shouldn't have nommed that one".

One more day!

Some things I'd still like to see myself (with only two nominations left):
Leo Brouwer - Canticum
Stephen Dodgson - Partita
Frank Zappa - The Grand Wazoo
John Cage - Concerto for Prepared Piano and Orchestra
John Cage - Seventy-Four
James Tenney - Water on the Mountain... Fire in Heaven
Glenn Branca - Symphony no. 3

Leonard Rosenman - Fantastic Voyage (film score)
Les Baxter - Quiet Village
John Williams and Stomu Yamashta - Images (film score)
Gil Evans - Sunken Treasure
Sergei Prokofiev - Symphony no. 3

55/55

sund4r I've only nommed 20-odd so put me down for the ones you listed even tho I have Zappa issues

been enjoying this thread

nothing to add that didn't also come up on this one: what are the most significnt classical works of the last 15-20 years?

Does that mean you're nominating everything on that thread?

And much thanks NV!

I was wondering where you were Milton Parker!

And if NV is covering all of those, I will also nominate these to complete my 55. :)

Antonio Carlos Jobim/Newton Mendonca - Desafinado
Luiz Bonfa/Antonia Maria - Manha de Carnaval

I think those two were originally notated anyway. Will confirm for sure before the spreadsheet is finalized. Everything is up to date in any case (unless Milton really was nominating everything on the other thread). How is the playlist coming along?

I really fell behind on the playlist. It's a lot more work than I expected and a lot more people contributed nominations than I expected, and also I was in Seattle for a week. Let me attack anew and make a sober assessment of the task.

Ha, it seemed like an unimaginable amount of work tbh!

i have visited that nation, the locals are a mess

Less than an hour left for last-minute nominations.

Very excited about this list!

Does that mean you're nominating everything on that thread?

I'd add them all anyway. Why not? (Even though I have no recollection now of two of the pieces I mentioned ha!)

Assume this is closed - can you post your .xls Sund4r as I'd like to have a look.

The spreadsheet has been publicly available the whole time: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/159pi7X3auJv4xPfuNSx-427tclquh5MHBkc40F4GIHI/edit#gid=0

750+ items - let the madness begin :)

I'm making much better progress on the playlist now. Believe it or not, before yesterday I was building it using the iOS version of Spotify. For this particular kind of playlist desktop is tons faster. Will announce when finished.

Awesome!

Has anyone discovered anything from this list? I've been occupied with FB challenges the last couple of days tbh but I'd encourage anyone who doesn't know it to check out Vivier's Lonely Child: sometimes I think it's my 'new music' OPO.

Still setting up the voting but the deadline will be six months from the nomination cut-off so probably around Sept 18. Ballots can include up to 100 pieces and can be ranked, unweighted, or a mix.

Thanks - haven't begun yet but now have a deadline.

I'll post about three pieces at the weekend...or at least I'll set myself a goal.

i think i've discovered stuff from the list. hard for me to tell because lists are starting points and i keep going on tangents. was ginastera's guitar sonata on the list? i discovered that recently.

vivier is good indeed, maybe the 20th century equivalent of gesualdo (come for the lurid life story, stay for the tunes). i don't much care for any of the other spectralists i've heard (looking at you, grisey) but vivier is quality.

was ginastera's guitar sonata on the list?

Pretty sure this would have been among my first nominations.

Yeah you nominated that
Feeling a lot of regret this morning that I didn't nominate nyman's 'Memorial'. It was one of those I remembered when I was in the middle of something and then forgot. Entry of wordless soprano still gives me chills.

So, when does the voting start? Or did I miss the voting thread?

Sept 18 will be the deadline for voting. I haven't started a voting thread yet. I hope to have this set up soon.

Too bad we didn't nominate any Norma Beecroft.

I have so many regrets

No Elgar #2! How could I have let that happen.

Malcolm Arnold #7!

One of Christopher Gordon's film scores...

Voting thread: Dedication to Polls and Voters: Notated Music Since 1890 - Voting and Discussion Thread