i just don't get the hatred for NIN

And I NEVER played D&D.

Then, along with that, regardless of the level of success he's experienced, many argue that he's merely appropriated the styles of others (i.e. Ministry, Skinny Puppy, etc. etc. etc.). That he made millions off of it while those artists he borrowed heavily from continue to wallow in "cult favorite" territory is another bone of contention.

Then lets remember his tortured persona. After a while, anyone who insists on beng perpetually emotionally plagued, bothered and angst-ridden is going to come across as somewhat false sooner or later. The arguable emotional albatross around Trent's neck has made him a very rich, successful man. I'm not sure how we're supposed to believe he's still the angry volcano of self-loathing that he started out to be this many years down the line.

Also, there's the vitriol towards his peers. Why does he care what idiots like Fred Durst, Billy Corgan, Courtney Love, etc. etc. etc. have to say about him? That only makes him seem petty and competitive and careerist.

Also, let's not forget: he gave the world Marilyn Manson.

That all said, shenanigans aside, Reznor is a wildly capable musician with a remarkable ear. Underneath the scary armour-plated exterior, Nine Inch Nails' music is overflowing with pop hooks and melodies that go right for the jugular. The man knows what he's doing as far as the very "craft" of songwriting is concerned. Personally speaking, if he just ditched some of the stylistic pretentions and the lyrical fixations, I think he'd redeem himself thoroughly.

and i think i have the same problem as brock. i can understand why people don't like nin, but my own love for him is beyond my own comprehension. well he is a hotty. i think i'm just a sucker for cheese-bag industrial beats.

Easy, he's Depeche Mode for America. And that's brilliant! :-)

Any feud with Courtney is self-explanatory. And with Corgan, I think he always looked at him as a measuring stick for competition.

Now if they could just get Trent to stop playing Quake, maybe we'd see another album before 2005.

If the twin track you mean is "at the heart of it all," there is a beaumont hannat remix of Bjork's Hyper-Ballad which sounds remarkably similar.

Am I alsy the only one who thinks it owes more stylistically to Prince than to Ministry et al?

I like NIN a great deal, but the thing is, there are very few appropriate times to listen to them...they're hardly a "last-CD-before-going-to-sleep" kinda thing, more like a "we're-mad-at-each-other-so-let's-put-on-The-Downward-Spiral-and-shag" kinda groove.

The production on most of his stuff is so outstanding...no one really talks about what he does as far as sampling live drums (and lots of other stuff) and combining them with programming, it manages to be organic while still sounding like industrial.

Also he's good at writing songs in odd time signatures that are so catchy that you don't notice that they are odd, which is always brilliant.

Surely he's the Pop Will Eat Itself of the Us of A?

Who sells out shows
Wherever he goes
Whose hatred pays the rent?
The angry young man
For industrial fans
It's Trent!
Trent!
Trent!

It's Tre-ent, Tre-ent
He's moody, he's angst-filled, he's mean!
It's Tre-ent, Tre-ent
He's every young gothie's dream!

Unless you've got a nail wedged in your foot I can't imagine that everything in life leaves you in a searingly painful funk that you can only express through high school-level poetry.

"Closer" does indeed rock, but way more in an INXS kinda way than a Prince way. I mean, isn't "Need You Tonight/Mediate" a definitive pre-NIN suite?

YES!!!