cupid & psyche 85 vs provision

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the former is my favourite "new" (ie to me) old record of the year; should i bother getting provision or will it just disappoint me?

― toby (tsg20), Wednesday, 6 November 2002 13:32 (twenty-three years ago)

P is no C&P85, for sure. But get Songs To Remember if you don't have it already.

― Jeff W, Wednesday, 6 November 2002 13:52 (twenty-three years ago)

I second Jeff's nomination of Songs To Remember.

― Stewart Osborne (Stewart Osborne), Wednesday, 6 November 2002 13:55 (twenty-three years ago)

I think 'Provision' may be better than 'Cupid & Psyche'. 'C&P' is a rare formalist treat of a record, it's true, busting out like an exploding cuckoo clock, but (whisper it) 'Provision' has better songs (search, especially, the extended version of 'Oh Patti' with the long Miles Davis solo. Nice.).

― Jerry the Nipper (Jerrynipper), Wednesday, 6 November 2002 14:06 (twenty-three years ago)

If you havent got the idea, please please if you don't know Songs to Remember buy it now. He still had the lyrical cleverness of his post-punk structuralist past, but had discovered he could make beautiful music too. It's a wonderful record. And it contains Faithless, which makes me legless.

If only someone had thought to stick together the two sides of the the 12" version of Faithless as an add on to the recent CD reissue. It would knock even the Miles Davies Oh Patti into a cocked hat.

― jon (jon), Wednesday, 6 November 2002 15:37 (twenty-three years ago)

I always found _Provision_ terribly disappointing (but what wouldn't be after the wonderment that's C&P85?). I actually really like "Tinseltown to the Boogiedown" from the album that came out a couple of years ago.

Somebody really, really, really ought to do a Scritti Politti singles compilation to give a home to "Jacques Derrida," "The 'Sweetest Girl,'" "Skank Bloc Bologna," the insane cover of "She's a Woman" with Shabba Ranks being Shabba Ranks all over it, etc.

Green, incidentally, was one of my two or three favorite interviews I've ever done. A very smart, very interesting guy.

― Douglas, Wednesday, 6 November 2002 15:39 (twenty-three years ago)

He lives somewhere near Abergavenny now, I believe? The man has a healthy sense of priorities to live somewhere like that and quietly go about making dense funky music.

oh yes, a singles comp with full 12" versions. yes please.

― jon (jon), Wednesday, 6 November 2002 15:42 (twenty-three years ago)

Provision took a long time to grow on me but grow on me it has. I don't rate it higher than C&P85 - better songs than "A Little Knowledge" or "The World Girl"? Pfff! - but C&P85 is one of my favourite ever records so no surprises. Provision does have some great songs on - and yes the Davis Oh Patti is sumptuous - and also lots of great moments. ("Tell us about it Green" gets a smile every time).

Lots of records get damned with "Oh it's just [name of predecessor] part 2" and Provision rightly gets called C&P 85 part 2. BUT there are few records that deserved a part 2 more!

― Tom (Groke), Wednesday, 6 November 2002 15:43 (twenty-three years ago)

YES, Toby - what the estimable Jerry said - get Provision now, it's their best! The others are fantastic I agree, but Lovesick, Oh Patti and Philosophy Now are the best 3 songs Scritti ever did. The precision tooled funk is even crisper and more bamboozling than on '85, too.

― Dr. C (Dr. C), Wednesday, 6 November 2002 15:49 (twenty-three years ago)

i will get provision this evening, then (there's a copy for $8 that i've been eyeing up for the last 7 weeks). i borrowed a tape of "songs to remember" from my phd supervisor just before coming here but only had the chance to hear it once; i'll get into it in the new year i'm sure. i've also picked up anomie and bonomie but have yet to hear it (mostly cos i suspect it's going to be shit).

― toby (tsg20), Wednesday, 6 November 2002 16:38 (twenty-three years ago)

**there's a copy for $8 that i've been eyeing up for the last 7 weeks**

Fantastic! Toby=the inverse N. Raggett.

Enjoy it Toby, it's a good 'un.

― Dr. C (Dr. C), Wednesday, 6 November 2002 20:41 (twenty-three years ago)

can i be the only person on planet earth to think that songs to remember was a big pile of doggy doodoo (aside from the BIG HIT SINGLES, of course)?

― jess (dubplatestyle), Wednesday, 6 November 2002 20:52 (twenty-three years ago)

I have to say that I think Anomie and Bonhomie is probably my favourite of his records, surpassing even C & P 85 or Provision.

It's quite a treat listening to him rocking out. Being Green he's not quite Fred Durst, preferring to rock out in a lovely limpid way which won't frighten the neighbours.

He's one of the few Brit's who've managed to incorporate hip hop without it seeming tokenistic, key being that he's happy to let Mos Def or Lee Majors take the mic while he has a supporting role. Quite smart really as it brings his extraordinary voice even more into relief when it appears on the track.

It's also one of the most sumptuous records of recent years, you can feel the quality of those ever so expensive session players.

― Billy Dods (Billy Dods), Wednesday, 6 November 2002 21:22 (twenty-three years ago)

Hmm interesting stuff Billy - I've passed on A+B a few times, even though you can get it secondhand for a couple of quid virtually anywhere. Next time I'll pick it up.

― Dr. C (Dr. C), Thursday, 7 November 2002 10:34 (twenty-three years ago)

i must give A+B a listen later. and i must get provision, too - i went to the shop half an hour after it closed last night :-(

― toby (tsg20), Thursday, 7 November 2002 15:58 (twenty-three years ago)

i did get cupid and psyche but i only gave it a quick listen on side 2 (really cheap copy, 2 quid). i will listen to this more.

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Thursday, 7 November 2002 16:30 (twenty-three years ago)

yeah julio do - it took me a few listens to really grasp how fucking amazing it is.

i have provision in my hands now...

― toby (tsg20), Thursday, 7 November 2002 23:50 (twenty-three years ago)

I want to know about the really early warped punk dubby stuff I keep hearing about. That said, I enjoy "Cupid & Psyche 85", and I've heard far less flattering things about "Provision".

― donut bitch (donut), Thursday, 7 November 2002 23:52 (twenty-three years ago)

"provision" is *amazing*. i'm really not sure which of it and c&p 85 i'd take; probably c&p, but the extended version of "oh patti" (amongst other things" makes it a tricky one. i certainly can't see how people can love c+p and not this, too...

― toby (tsg20), Tuesday, 12 November 2002 18:55 (twenty-three years ago)

I just realized like a bolt: Scritti Politti (well, C&P 85, all I've heard) invoke in me the very same, very strange, very difficult-to-articulate sense of strangeness and wonder that Steely Dan do! I want to explore this a little further when I have more time and mental energy, but what do you all think of this comparison?

― Clarke B., Wednesday, 13 November 2002 08:43 (twenty-three years ago)

I think they have a similar combination of anally retentive and funky, a similar feeling of something being very very worked at auntil the air is sucked dry from it, but that this very process gives it some of its beauty. plus both understood how to talk about philiosphoy while seeming to talk about love. nice one.

― jon (jon), Wednesday, 13 November 2002 11:15 (twenty-three years ago)

eleven months pass...

revive! a year on, i agree with the nipper; provision is actually better than c+p. and as for 'oh patti'... mmm.

― toby (tsg20), Monday, 10 November 2003 15:32 (twenty-two years ago)

c+p85 was an album i'd only ever heard of thru ILM, i got it earlier this year and have spent the last 6 months convinced that it is the greatest thing ever recorded. i am in love with it. got songs to remember as well and like it a lot but it's clearly not in the same league. and now you people tell me that provision is supposed to be EVEN BETTER??? i can't take it ooooh how exciting!

― pete b. (pete b.), Monday, 10 November 2003 15:57 (twenty-two years ago)

serously though why doesn't this thread have 600 answers or something c+p85 should be owned by everyone in the world go and buy it and then say here what you think.

― pete b. (pete b.), Monday, 10 November 2003 15:58 (twenty-two years ago)

Yes, Provision is STILL the 14th greatest album ever made.

― Dr. C (Dr. C), Monday, 10 November 2003 15:59 (twenty-two years ago)

i have never been wronger about an album on ilx than i was about c+p85

― goato mountington (dubplatestyle), Monday, 10 November 2003 16:06 (twenty-two years ago)

what did you under-praise it? because the opposite is not possible

― pete b. (pete b.), Monday, 10 November 2003 16:15 (twenty-two years ago)

no i hated it!!

― goato mountington (dubplatestyle), Monday, 10 November 2003 16:24 (twenty-two years ago)

there's an earlier thread where i got into an argument with tom about it, re. the quality of their earliest records, which resulted in his famous "the sound of scritti politti is the sound of green gartside getting better in bed".

― goato mountington (dubplatestyle), Monday, 10 November 2003 16:25 (twenty-two years ago)

haha, that's a great line, but c+pt85-era green gartside already fucks me six ways to sunday, i'm not sure i could cope with the excitement if his technique has improved on provision, i'd be like barbarella in the orgasmatron

― pete b. (pete b.), Monday, 10 November 2003 18:01 (twenty-two years ago)

"Philosophy Now" is perhaps my favorite of their songs, but I still haven't picked up the full album of Provision. I need to rectify this.

― Broheems (diamond), Monday, 10 November 2003 19:20 (twenty-two years ago)

Did you ever get A+B, Doc?

― Billy Dods (Billy Dods), Monday, 10 November 2003 22:21 (twenty-two years ago)

No! I've seen it for a couple of quid loads of times and haven't picked it up yet. Still rate it?

― Dr. C (Dr. C), Tuesday, 11 November 2003 09:12 (twenty-two years ago)

I would still say I prefer "Cupid & Psyche". Maybe the songs on "Provision" are a bit similar to each other to really hold up.

But "Provision" is still an underrated gem well worth checking out. "Oh Patti" is easily their best ballad.

― Geir Hongro (GeirHong), Tuesday, 11 November 2003 13:55 (twenty-two years ago)

"Cupid & Psyche" is one of the greatest albums ever recorded. I second (or third) the qualitative comparison with Steely Dan - there's a similar "sheen" to the music and an almost obsessive workmanship they share. Indescribable, really. I never warmed up to "Provision", though. (I think Miles is an over-rated prick so maybe that had something to do with it.) I'll have to gove it another listen. I still haven't heard any of the the early Scritti stuff or "Songs to Remember".

― Larry Tremblay, Tuesday, 11 November 2003 21:02 (twenty-two years ago)

You could say Scritti Politti is like Steely Dan, only with more keyboards and computers.

― Geir Hongro (GeirHong), Tuesday, 11 November 2003 21:04 (twenty-two years ago)

Doc, yup still rate it and definitely worth 2 quid, or maybe 3 at a stretch. Still a little surprising and thrilling to hear feedback on a Scritti record, and more so when he's effing and jeffing. At the end of the day despite the guest mc's, the geetars and what have you it's still a Scritti record. As usual a luxurious bubblebath of a record too, albeit with fewer bubbles and the water a little hotter than before.

― Billy Dods (Billy Dods), Sunday, 16 November 2003 22:24 (twenty-two years ago)

seven years pass...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9StuttacQoU

― Gus Van Sotosyn (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Friday, 10 December 2010 02:30 (fifteen years ago)

Shocked this didn't get a 25th anniversary deluxe reissue...

― Gerald McBoing-Boing, Friday, 10 December 2010 04:28 (fifteen years ago)

nine months pass...

i just reread rip it up and start again and he says of c&p that

...the Scritti sound was so advanced it actually influenced the next wave of mideighties black pop, records such as Janet Jackson's Control.

as a fan of c&p and control i'm interested in this. can anyone expand upon this claim? have, say, jam & lewis ever said anything about this?

― fit and working again, Wednesday, 21 September 2011 19:13 (fourteen years ago)

It wouldn't be surprising if Jam and Lewis dug C&P, but there's no obvious reaction to C&P in what they were producing in late '85/'86.

― A Chuck Person's Guide to Mark Aguirre (Andy K), Wednesday, 21 September 2011 19:22 (fourteen years ago)

It's not like their sound got dainty all of the sudden. Even the ballads on Control were more a continuation of what they had done with SOS Band, Cherrelle, etc.

― A Chuck Person's Guide to Mark Aguirre (Andy K), Wednesday, 21 September 2011 19:28 (fourteen years ago)

"advanced" lol

i hear a lot of post C&P stuff in the 80s that sounds a lot like C&P and i'm sure most of it is influenced by the studio tech and musicians around at the time than it is by that album specifically.

― Louis Jaha (Noodle Vague), Wednesday, 21 September 2011 19:30 (fourteen years ago)

i guess this is a technology thing maybe? what is c&p doing that hadn't been done before?

― fit and working again, Wednesday, 21 September 2011 19:33 (fourteen years ago)

― fit and working again, Wednesday, 21 September 2011 19:34 (fourteen years ago)

Reynolds' line always made me frown too, until I remember how deep Arif Mardin's connections were (he later produced Chaka Khan, with whom Green also collaborated) and the growing affordability of technology.

― Anakin Ska Walker (AKA Skarth Vader) (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 21 September 2011 19:37 (fourteen years ago)

The only records from "the next wave of mideighties black pop" that resemble C&P (that I can think of) were produced by people like Full Force, Leon Sylvers, Jam and Lewis, the System, and James Mtume -- all of whom were established prior to C&P. Gartside and Gamson produced Chaka Khan's "Love of a Lifetime," but that was probably facilitated by Arif Mardin.

xpost

Mardin and Chaka were working together as early as '78, when she signed to Warner.

― A Chuck Person's Guide to Mark Aguirre (Andy K), Wednesday, 21 September 2011 19:39 (fourteen years ago)

oh right!

― Anakin Ska Walker (AKA Skarth Vader) (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 21 September 2011 19:40 (fourteen years ago)

not digging at you mister fit and working i just think advanced is an unhelpful word in this kind of context, and the whole (partial) sentence hinges on overloading the importance of one album on contemporary producers who were undoubtedly listening to lots of other stuff at the same time

and I was gonna say Arif Mardin is a key element here, again i don't buy that C&P in itself was the crucial landmark that the narrative's making out.

― Louis Jaha (Noodle Vague), Wednesday, 21 September 2011 19:42 (fourteen years ago)

i believe love of a lifetime was completely produced by green and gamson.

― fit and working again, Wednesday, 21 September 2011 19:44 (fourteen years ago)

Destiny boasted 67 producers.

― Anakin Ska Walker (AKA Skarth Vader) (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 21 September 2011 19:46 (fourteen years ago)

i wonder how influential No Jacket Required was on Control

― Louis Jaha (Noodle Vague), Wednesday, 21 September 2011 19:47 (fourteen years ago)

Speaking of '85/European records that affected black/American records, I'd like to hear Quincy Jones talk about A Secret Wish.

― A Chuck Person's Guide to Mark Aguirre (Andy K), Wednesday, 21 September 2011 19:48 (fourteen years ago)

Ska Walker, are you sure that's not the musician count? Good lord.

― A Chuck Person's Guide to Mark Aguirre (Andy K), Wednesday, 21 September 2011 19:50 (fourteen years ago)

four months pass...

C&P 85...I guess

― Cane it for the original white tees (admrl), Thursday, 26 January 2012 21:56 (fourteen years ago)

"Provision" sucked, sold it pronto. C&S is so classic, I had "Wood Beez" pop into my head just today.

― Gerald McBoing-Boing, Friday, 27 January 2012 00:52 (fourteen years ago)

two weeks pass...

I listened to C & P in its entirety back in the day, for about three months...and never listened to again. It was too good.

Still, I'll give Provision a try.

― โตเกียวเหมียวเหมียว aka Trucks of my Tears (Mount Cleaners), Friday, 10 February 2012 21:22 (fourteen years ago)

Report back afterwards! I rarely take a "this sucks" position but "Provision" was a *colossal* letdown at the time, it made it's compromises and mediocrity that much more painful.

― Gerald McBoing-Boing, Saturday, 11 February 2012 17:38 (fourteen years ago)

I don't know, "Oh Patti" and "First Boy in This Town" are really good - though to me they almost seem more of a piece with White Bread, Black Beer than with C&P?

― with hidden noise, Saturday, 11 February 2012 17:54 (fourteen years ago)

man, Provision has got plenty of great songs. love the singles, love All That We Are, etc. of course it comes up short compared to C&P - what wouldn't?

― jabba hands, Sunday, 12 February 2012 00:58 (fourteen years ago)

"Oh Patti" is devastating.

― Exile in lolville (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Sunday, 12 February 2012 01:45 (fourteen years ago)

two years pass...

"first boy in this town" is a little gem

― kobaïas fünke (clouds), Monday, 24 November 2014 04:41 (eleven years ago)

provision is 100 percent great

― emo canon in twee major (BradNelson), Monday, 24 November 2014 05:04 (eleven years ago)

five years pass...

"perfect way" always leaves me breathlessly happy

― i am a horse girl (map), Sunday, 26 April 2020 22:21 (five years ago)

This whole album is a balm

― X-Prince Protégé (sonnyboy), Sunday, 26 April 2020 23:44 (five years ago)

yeah it's just the best

― i am a horse girl (map), Monday, 27 April 2020 00:27 (five years ago)

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