Metal Machine Music, C or D

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I love Lou Reed, but even he would say it's a D. He once said something along the lines of, "anybody who can get through the entire album is a better man than I"

But do people actually like this? I saw in another thread two people owned it. WHY?

― David Allen, Wednesday, 6 November 2002 18:58 (twenty-three years ago)

side three is my favorite.

― jess (dubplatestyle), Wednesday, 6 November 2002 19:00 (twenty-three years ago)

I've listened trough it, and I say it is classic, but mostly because of how mysterious it is. And how it's not intended to be listenable, and people are saying "Oh my, it's so unlistenable" and they are right, it is.

― A Nairn (moretap), Wednesday, 6 November 2002 19:06 (twenty-three years ago)

b-but it's very listenable! much more so than say, merzbow!

― jess (dubplatestyle), Wednesday, 6 November 2002 19:11 (twenty-three years ago)

What was unlistenable then has become not so extreme now comparatively speaking. MMM is a classic, even if just one tossed off to get out of a record contract.

― jack cole (jackcole), Wednesday, 6 November 2002 19:22 (twenty-three years ago)

Is it relevant that Lou Reed didn't put any effort into it? Or did he?

― RPK (Rahul Kamath), Wednesday, 6 November 2002 20:13 (twenty-three years ago)

one or two of the Frank's APA people own it and like it. They say that if you like uncompromising extreme music it's your man. I've never heard it.

― DV (dirtyvicar), Wednesday, 6 November 2002 20:16 (twenty-three years ago)

You like to write about music, can you describe what it sounds like?

― Mark (MarkR), Wednesday, 6 November 2002 20:20 (twenty-three years ago)

I find MMM a lot less listenable than Masonna or whoever. I'm not a particularly big fan of noise in general but I find the really dense stuff somewhat more interesting texturally, even when there's not much going on...um..."musically". I find MMM monotonous and very difficult to listen to. I couldn't listen to more than 10 minutes, it really disturbed me. I find early Whitehouse similar in some ways. It's not especially "noisy" compared to a lot of stuff, it's just really tedious, unpleasant music.

Having said that, I think it's a classic if only for the fact that he got away with it. How on earth did a major label let him put that out at that time? What was he thinking? Definately ahead of its time......

― James Annett, Wednesday, 6 November 2002 20:23 (twenty-three years ago)

Jess: side three is the total conventional choice. The scooby selection is side two. (haha remember scooby tracks? those were great!)

― Sterling Clover (s_clover), Wednesday, 6 November 2002 20:44 (twenty-three years ago)

I think it's very pretty-sounding and, yes, side C was always my favourite.

― sundar subramanian (sundar), Wednesday, 6 November 2002 21:06 (twenty-three years ago)

Is it perhaps "harder" to listen to because there aren't any "hey dig this CRAAAAAZY NOIZE!" signifiers to help you "understand" it?

I think it's pretty beautiful, too.

― Clarke B., Wednesday, 6 November 2002 21:35 (twenty-three years ago)

I guess I'll just have to buy it.

― Mark (MarkR), Wednesday, 6 November 2002 21:40 (twenty-three years ago)

Get it on vinyl.

― sundar subramanian (sundar), Wednesday, 6 November 2002 21:48 (twenty-three years ago)

Why this adoration for side C? I've always understood it to be more or less the same the whole way through.

― Ian Johnson (orion), Wednesday, 6 November 2002 22:46 (twenty-three years ago)

I bought it on vinyl mint for $5 and later traded it away. Even though I'd never play it, I do wish I still had it. Good liner notes and some good photos of Reed, too.

― Sean (Sean), Wednesday, 6 November 2002 23:22 (twenty-three years ago)

get it on 8-track, like a real man would.

didn't we do this one already, btw? i'll say what i always say - classic. lou reed could've just done VU and MMM and then died for all i care.

― your null fame (yournullfame), Thursday, 7 November 2002 00:14 (twenty-three years ago)

Clarke: Why the harsh tone (har har...). I was respoding to Jess' comment that MMM is more listenable than Merzbow and his ilk. "Noise" (in the sense of a sound that's unpleasant) is pretty subjective. I didn't like MMM, not because I didn't understand it, but because it made me feel physically ill. I found it quite literally "unlistenable". It seemed to me that the album was aiming for some kind of primal gut-level reaction, so I guess I "got" it. Is there really anything more to "understand"? Doesn't it just run on with little variation? Am I really missing out? I don't think there's great depth to the "NOIZE CRAZZIES" either, but they don't make me want to throw up so they win. The only other album that's given me the same feeling is Lydia Lunch's Beirut Slump record (although curiously, I like all her other rock stuff).

― James Annett, Thursday, 7 November 2002 00:19 (twenty-three years ago)

my take on MMM is basically that it sounds good. i downloaded it in the napster days for the freak factor, and subsequently decided that it was as good for relaxing to as whale song or those machines that emit white noise when yr trying to go to sleep. also, lou looks like a rock and roll robot on the cover, always a plus.

― jess (dubplatestyle), Thursday, 7 November 2002 00:28 (twenty-three years ago)

rememebr on newsradio when joe made the white noise machine for dave and dave became a hippy

― chaki (chaki), Thursday, 7 November 2002 00:32 (twenty-three years ago)

Listening to it at home alone-Dud
Listening to it at an extremely loud volume whilst driving around town with all the windows down-Classic

― brg30 (brg30), Thursday, 7 November 2002 00:42 (twenty-three years ago)

I enjoy MMM. The only modern noise artist I like more is Prurient.

― Dave Fischer, Thursday, 7 November 2002 02:20 (twenty-three years ago)

I've never heard it. I feel like I ought to have done. Isn't it, like, the diametrical opposite of "4.33"? Or is it more like that track at the end of Hit To Death In The Future Head? I'm intrigued now.

― Charlie (Charlie), Thursday, 7 November 2002 03:22 (twenty-three years ago)

if Lou Reed couldn't stand it, why's he coming over to perform it live at the Royal Festival Hall?

― Denise Lambert, Thursday, 7 November 2002 08:11 (twenty-three years ago)

I listen to it every 6 months or so. Good record, bit overlong.

― Tom (Groke), Thursday, 7 November 2002 09:57 (twenty-three years ago)

i love it, it sounds like seagulls and stopped me from massacreing my next door neighbour veitnamese boys who were too noisy yet to o ld to fuck.

― Queen G (Queeng), Thursday, 7 November 2002 10:52 (twenty-three years ago)

guess what? i *still* haven't found my copy!!

i think my actually hearing it again will be a harbinger of the end times

(it is pretty)

― mark s (mark s), Thursday, 7 November 2002 12:44 (twenty-three years ago)

yeah, its good, but i need to get it on vinyl. i think i'll play it more regurlarly then.

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Thursday, 7 November 2002 12:45 (twenty-three years ago)

haha LR said it wz up there with XENAKIS!! (so i win)

― mark s (mark s), Thursday, 7 November 2002 12:45 (twenty-three years ago)

his interview with lester bangs on this rec was one of the funniest things interviews evah!

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Thursday, 7 November 2002 12:50 (twenty-three years ago)

I'd agree with jess - it's relaxing if you play it at low-ish volumes. I think it'd do your head in if you played it loud all the time.

I think it's intersting that it was so obviously a piss-take but people still find their own level of actually really liking it.

― James Ball (James Ball), Thursday, 7 November 2002 16:25 (twenty-three years ago)

but was it a piss take?

even if it was- its quite nice to know that great music can be made in those sorts of circumstances as well. not a profound point but there it is.

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Thursday, 7 November 2002 16:28 (twenty-three years ago)

not a big fan of the Flaming Lips, but I once read an interview with Waynce Coyne I think (can't find it now) where he said something funny along the lines of when people describe music as incredibly avant-garde and experimental and noisy what they are really sayi8ng is it is very boring. Anyway, this pretty much applies to MMM imo. Though I haven;t listened to it for a long time and never all the way through...

― g (graysonlane), Thursday, 7 November 2002 17:00 (twenty-three years ago)

I think it's intersting that it was so obviously a piss-take but people still find their own level of actually really liking it.

ehh. it seems pretty damn detailed for a pisstake; some attention was paid to structure and texture even if it was only for the time required to fill all of the tracks up.

― your null fame (yournullfame), Thursday, 7 November 2002 17:05 (twenty-three years ago)

I haven't ever heard it. Sounds interesting.
An artist could work an a piece of music really hard and for a long time, and still have it turn out as a piece of shit. So, it stands to reason that an artist could work on a piece of music really quickly and without much effort (a pisstake) and still have it turn out well. The ends justify the (lack of) means. The effort is irrelevant.

― Nick A. (Nick A.), Thursday, 7 November 2002 17:08 (twenty-three years ago)

actually nick just because p !-> q, that doesn't imply that ! (!p->!q)
only that q !-> !p

― Sterling Clover (s_clover), Friday, 8 November 2002 08:00 (twenty-three years ago)

When I say it stands to reason, I mean by my own highly sophisticated and often misunderstood personal rules of logic, not by "society's" "accepted" "logic."
Whatever. I still think that the effort is irrelevant. How do you measure effort?

― Nick A. (Nick A.), Friday, 8 November 2002 15:49 (twenty-three years ago)

Geez, how much effort does it take to write something like "Dirty Blvd"?

― sundar subramanian (sundar), Friday, 8 November 2002 18:47 (twenty-three years ago)

MMM is fun. MMM is nice to zone out to. MMM takes a lot of patience to listen to unless you're just letting it wash all over you. I like MMM. Tom is OTM.

― J (Jay), Friday, 8 November 2002 18:50 (twenty-three years ago)

measuring effort:

if it has been given an E, then it must have entailed effort

― mark s (mark s), Friday, 8 November 2002 19:12 (twenty-three years ago)

dirty blvd vs. street hassle vs. mmm.

― Sterling Clover (s_clover), Friday, 8 November 2002 19:14 (twenty-three years ago)

Whether or not we can precisely measure effort, its relevance depends on the listener. To certain kinds of prog fans, effort is very relevant.

― charlie va (charlie va), Friday, 8 November 2002 19:15 (twenty-three years ago)

Charlie, that sounds suspiciously like an argument for subjectivity, which you gave me shit for using as an exuse a few months ago. The tables have turned, motherfucker!

― Nick A. (Nick A.), Friday, 8 November 2002 19:23 (twenty-three years ago)

Ok, let me see if I can do this right: Charlie in "Everyone's entitled to their own opinion" shockah!

― Nick A. (Nick A.), Friday, 8 November 2002 19:30 (twenty-three years ago)

What are you talking about Nick? Please point me to the thread where I did this!

― charlie va (charlie va), Friday, 8 November 2002 19:44 (twenty-three years ago)

Oh please, like I have the time for that. I only have time to mock you.

― Nick A. (Nick A.), Friday, 8 November 2002 19:48 (twenty-three years ago)

Nick, you responded to my post in like three minutes. Of course you have time for that.

What happened is that you were defending objectivity-- that's what I was calling you out for.

― charlie va (charlie va), Friday, 8 November 2002 19:54 (twenty-three years ago)

I told you I had time to mock you - that only takes three minutes. Doing a search takes longer.
I actually tried to search but couldn't find it. So I guess we'll never know. Nope, never.

― Nick A. (Nick A.), Friday, 8 November 2002 20:15 (twenty-three years ago)

Hmm. I was having this conversation with someone recently. I love MMM. The reports of it being a dud are really overblown. I think Reed wanted to distance himself from such a critical backlash so as not to tarnish his "Legacy". But MMM is really a masterpiece of sorts. A brutal and relentless assault on all your senses. There is no "give" to it. No melodies, or chorus, just a raw singular wash of sound. In a way MMM is the forefather of My Bloody Valentine's Loveless. There is layers of guitars and tones and so much texture to MMM. Reed made a complex record intentionally. You have to play it really LOUD and ignore it. Trust me, when its playing and your doing the dishes, suddenly a small snippet will jump out at you and blow your mind. I like side four too :)

Lydia Lunch and Merzbow are great too.

― Juan (Juan), Friday, 8 November 2002 20:52 (twenty-three years ago)

Yes because along with Sally Can't Dance and The Bells and Mistrial Reed's legacy is more untarnished than ever.

― Sterling Clover (s_clover), Friday, 8 November 2002 21:00 (twenty-three years ago)

eight months pass...

Man, I listened to MMM before I fell asleep last night, and had the weirdest dreams I've had in years. I might try it again tonight for science.

― J (Jay), Wednesday, 23 July 2003 21:23 (twenty-two years ago)

I just bought MMM on vinyl last night, per Sundar & mark s recs. (isn't it supposed to sound better on vinyl?) Took me a long time to find it. It was easy to like right away, though I don't think I'll ever listen to it for an hour straight. It has a certain warmth to it, doesn't have the apocalyptic sense of a lot of noise music. Reading what Lou has to say in the liner notes, also thinking about Take No Prisoners, it seems like his whole mid-'70s career was an attempt to answer the question, "What happens when you take an intelligent, creative, arrogant guy and give him unlimited access to methamphetamine? (or, as he calls it, "Vitamin M")

― Mark (MarkR), Wednesday, 30 July 2003 12:28 (twenty-two years ago)

Well I have it on vinyl? Does it make any difference? Lou Reed's entire career in the 1970s is really one of the oddest in the history of rock music.

― Dadaismus (Dada), Wednesday, 30 July 2003 12:49 (twenty-two years ago)

five months pass...

bomp

― bomp, Sunday, 18 January 2004 22:08 (twenty-two years ago)

Bomp bompity bomp indeed. My vote is for classic, but not the CD cos they mastered it all wrong and it sounds shit. If you can slow it way down there's loads of strange little melodies AND it lasts longer!
Anyway, here's Lou himself from some interview I found :

In fact, he feels vindicated as a result of a serious German orchestra, Ensemble Zeitkratzer, last March performing the seemingly unperformable Metal Machine Music with concerts in Berlin and Venice, at which he played along for the final movement. “It was a staggering thing to see that live.”BMG’s Buddah imprint last year released domestically on CD for the first time Metal Machine Music, remastered by renowned engineer Bob Ludwig, who originally mastered the vinyl album for quad. Reed adds, “And yeah, after 25 years, to have that rereleased, mastered properly, that was wonderful vindication. I’m tired reading that I did that to get out of a contract."

― udu wudu (udu wudu), Sunday, 18 January 2004 22:58 (twenty-two years ago)

Lou Reed: always so full of shit.

― may pang (maypang), Sunday, 18 January 2004 23:18 (twenty-two years ago)

When I'm listening to it, Metal Machine Music becomes my favourite album. Comparing it to other albums seems pointless. It sounds like it wants to be compared to Durham Cathedral or the internet.

Saying it's overlong, is like saying a jar of coffee is overlong. Its length seems to be dictated by a) its packaging and b) the fact that there's always going to be enough for you to use...

...cos its an album to use, not listen to. Although its a bit of a cliche, it really cleans out your head. It seems to speed the world up so fast you can see all the epochal things happen REALLY SLOWLY, it seems to let you see the world spin and the seasons change in extreme slo-mo. Put it on when you're doing ironing, and the ironing flies by, but the intensity of each moment seems to drag, as if their was a rip current in your speakers.

Part of me likes it as NOIZE, the Lester Bangs kinda justification of it, for its horribleness, but as people have said it's not all that horrible. This reason is mostly to do with its ability to annoy people, especially when I'm being a dickhead.

Part of me likes it as if it was feedback at the end of a career, like VU or The Who or every single band do feedback at the end of a gig. Except its not at the end of a career.

I HATE it, in the way people seem to approach it as a 'ha, bet that pissed off the Transformer fans'. Although I HATE it even more when people pretend to treat it - Reed included - as if it was a tune whistled by Stravinsky's computer.

Unfortunately, Metal Machine Music is what it is. You wouldn't be able to pull this kinda waffle out of me for any other album, even the my favourites of all time.

― Jim Robinson (Original Miscreant), Sunday, 18 January 2004 23:22 (twenty-two years ago)

>If you can slow it way down

seconded, it sounds incredible slow. you don't need vinyl for multiple speeds anymore though, I love my Numark CDN-88.

― (Jon L), Sunday, 18 January 2004 23:29 (twenty-two years ago)

http://www.paylesselectrical.co.uk/fridge.gif >>> http://www.mwe3.com/archive/pastreview/2000/decimages/LouReedLrg.jpg

― may pang (maypang), Sunday, 18 January 2004 23:39 (twenty-two years ago)

Chicago did it better (and earlier, and with wit) on their first LP. Free Form Guitar.

― harveyw (harveyw), Tuesday, 20 January 2004 12:06 (twenty-two years ago)

Is the locked groove on the chicago rec as beautiful as it is on MMM.

Lou's liner notes are very witty.

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Tuesday, 20 January 2004 12:47 (twenty-two years ago)

The reissue version I have (RCA Germany) there is no locked groove.

I was going to use part of it on-stage Turkey for a cabaret dance troupe "Space" production, but we never made it that year.

― mark grout (mark grout), Tuesday, 20 January 2004 16:33 (twenty-two years ago)

yeah the locked groove is on the LP only. I've had a CD of it.

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Tuesday, 20 January 2004 17:13 (twenty-two years ago)

eleven months pass...

this is remarkably *un* white noisy i think having heard it just this week. it sounds rather like ice cream van chimes and seagulls. admittedly i only heard the first 20 minutes, but i was shocked at how, compared to, say 'mushroom' by JAMC it's pretty and almost background music-y. a sort of klf CHILL OUT version of what i was expecting.

why was this such a big deal at the time? hadn't there been feedback records and gigs before? didn't 'live in totonto' era plastic ono band do this sort of stuff only way more pretentiously?

on a box set in what, the early 90's i think, there was a clip from MMM, but does anybody know which 'track' off the cd that clip came from? i think i recall reading that lou chose that bit himself so it'd be cool 2 see which bit. maybe it was just a bit plucked at random.

i tell you it's just the job this record if you've had a 5 month out and out pop phase.

― piscesboy, Monday, 27 December 2004 13:03 (twenty-one years ago)

two months pass...

Super Roots 5 kills the pants off metal machine music:

http://www.bulletsofautumn.com/boredoms/bores028.jpg
http://www.bulletsofautumn.com/boredoms/bores028b.jpg

Released in 1995
WEA Japan - WPC2 7518 - ( CD )
No western release

1. GO!!!!! 64:19

One super long hardcore ambient trance style track lasting over sixty minutes.
Another of Eye`s successful studio freestyle experiments, the only word spoken being "Go!".
It revs up, kicks off, throbs relentlessly and as you start to get lost in the waves it changes chord. And off again into the brainwash. You really do notice the chord changes, like listening to hardcore thrash in slow motion. You want to smash the shit out anything in a mosh style frenzy and at the same time a tantric rock god calm overwhelms you. This is so good with headphones, I cant even imagine how good it must sound seeing it live! I originally thought to myself 'how can anyone possible make a track work for a whole hour?' Once I was in there I didnt want to come out! It is a cd with only one track but damn!! what a track!
There are sleeve notes but as they are written in Japanese I cant read them. And I really need them on the computer to attempt to translate them. Damn my english speaking brain!

Listening to this in the dark with headphones maxed out is the most frightening/disorienting thing I have ever done. Its a total counterpoint to Vision Creation Newsun, the blackest sounds from beyond some event horizon at the center of the galaxy. Stars being ripped apart, tidal effects, neutron stars, planets being cooked by supernovas.

― Dr. Eldon Tyrell (ex machina), Wednesday, 23 March 2005 22:50 (twenty years ago)

this sounds absolutely mindblowing. but it also sounds like it has an inherent beauty; something i don't recall MMM possessing at all.

― grimly fiendish (grimlord), Wednesday, 23 March 2005 23:14 (twenty years ago)

MMM has so much inherent beauty! wtf dudes!

that cover art that jon posted kicks the ass of MMM's cover art tho

― geeta (geeta), Wednesday, 23 March 2005 23:20 (twenty years ago)

Well, hmm. This sounds interesting.

― Bimble... (Bimble...), Thursday, 24 March 2005 01:52 (twenty years ago)

http://www.bulletsofautumn.com/boredoms/bores044.jpg
http://www.bulletsofautumn.com/boredoms/bores044b.jpg

― Dr. Eldon Tyrell (ex machina), Thursday, 24 March 2005 02:03 (twenty years ago)

that's the cover of 'super roots 7' isn't it? i love that one!

― geeta (geeta), Thursday, 24 March 2005 02:28 (twenty years ago)

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