nu-garridge

I don't know where you think the polyrhythms are gone 'cos that stuff is rhythmically among the most whacked-out/intricate stuff in garage at the moment (cf. Musical Mob's "Pulse X"!). If you're talking about the Zinc/Hype post-jungle wing of breakbeaty garage then I reckon that's a totally different issue; I've always maintained an open-minded dislike for it (apart from a couple of exceptional tracks) and the fact that Darqwan seems to be more comfortable in that pond these days annoys me. I definitely agree that this wing is largely trying to turn garage into latter-day drum & bass, and I think that's the one direction that garage does not need to go in.

the beats still seem rooted to the boom-bip (or whatever it's modern-rave equivalent) which works in hip-hop coz of the cadences of the MC but can be flat without (maybe that's why Elephant Man lifts 'Log on').

Breakbeat garage has got the bounce, that seems feminine to me (altho' the tunes are pretty one-dimensional).

As for Horsepower, i do think they are rather skippy and too cloudy and ephemeral feeling to be straight dirge. The emphasis seems to be on skitters and dub-style reverb and space rather than neuro-funkiness.

But drum & bass is post-97 is definitely *less* sophisticated than pre-97 - the beats and the basslines are very very simple (albeit painstakingly produced) and the whole style is locked into one-bar-repetition monotony (I'm not saying that's definitely a bad thing, but as a general requirement it's unhealthy - this is my issue with breakbeat garage as well).

The "sophisticated" jungle - the sort of jungle that Horsepower Productons, El-B and Zed Bias remind me of - is all '94-'97 (ie. pre-"death of jungle"): Dillinja's "Angels Fell", Roni Size & Die's "11.55", Origin Unknown's "Truly One", Dom & Roland's "The Planets", Lemon D's "Metro", Hidden Agenda's "Dispatch #2", Source Direct. *This* was the sophisticated jungle (and yes it's more techy towards the '97 end there I'll admit), and this style disappeared pretty comprehensively when the two-step d&b beat took over.

The break between Horsepower Productions and Source Direct (who are otherwise quite similar in their intricacy and rhythmic perscipacity) is that HP are totally dub-derived whereas Source Direct have a pronounced post-techstep coldness to their work. I would never call Horsepower tracks "cold".

"I think I'm gonna have to listen to some of these tracks a little more closely (only managed to download 'gorgon sound' and the snippets on dubplate.net aren't really enough) but i'm sure that these trax aren't feminine in the slightest, they're not really impetuous, skippy 'pop and lock' trax like Dem 2 have done"

Um, yes they are. Horsepower Productions and their compatriots are *clearly* taking their cues from Steve Gurley and Dem 2 more than any other precedent in garage, and that particular continuum can be quite obviously contrasted with the anti-Dem 2 sound of the breakbeat producers (The Wideboys and Darqwan might be two examples of different mediating positions between the two camps, the former being the populist example and the latter being the anti-populist example). "Gorgon's Sound" has one of the most bubbly garage rhythms I can think of, very Artful Dodger-ish!

"the beats still seem rooted to the boom-bip (or whatever it's modern-rave equivalent)"

I disagree completely.

"Breakbeat garage has got the bounce, that seems feminine to me"

Again, I disagree completely.

Despite the often genius of Horsepower productions (still the best bass sound in music) There seems to be something lacking from new releases that make me nostalgic for 1998. I think it has something to do with potential...a few years ago, the garage sound was still so elastic and amorphous that every new track seemed to be itself speculative. I had never really heard a type of music before that was so unsure of its own dimensions yet so aggressively progressive. Garage now has become far too stratified into the all-too familiar zone of club-land dance-culture whereas its proto-bubblings, typified by Dem2, Club Asylum, dj luck etc seemed to play around with the notion of regenerating electronic pop by importing jungle style rhythmic science into classic song formulas...

There's been some *excellent* stuff though - eg. The Henchmen, Sticky, Menta, the D'n'D mix of "Standard Flow", Babu Stormz's "Electricity" etc. etc. I just wish I could obtain more of it on cd, or at the very least mp3.

The other interesting aspect is that garage is still so very *black*-sounding, so despite the fact that its audience has shrunk significantly I still think the next hardcore/jungle/garage paradigm will come from *within* garage (like jungle was born out hardcore, or 2-step out of speed garage) as it's pretty much just the larger white crowd who have stopped paying attention

A few months ago a Pay As You Go Cartel comp was promised which looked good, but it never seemed to emerge

listen to their weekly shows - there's some really good stuff about at the moment

Um, are any of the people who like Horsepower Productions actually sick of all the other stuff?

Part of my excitement about the album (tempered by obtaining it - it's great but not brilliant) was just being able to get a consistent garridge single-artist album, but that said it's never going to be as good as the best compilations.

I know that there's lots of good garage around; it's just that, unlike with Horsepower, I can't hear it. The Dreem Teem show is all very well except when you're in fucking Australia (not your fault though Paul!).

Dizzy Rascal - "I Love You"
http://www.cagerecords.com/html/cageframe.htm
soundclip under Garage new releases

Jginga - "Only Fools & Horses"
http://www.juno.co.uk/sgarage.htm
cos the Cage Records clip for that one doesn't work (for me at least)

the full version is at the link i posted in the looking for garage? thread.

unfortunately, the site is down right now.

"i love you" remains my fave pop single of 2002

Desert Eagle Disc's "Bigger Better Deal" is pretty good too.

If I ever heard more than random ten-second snippets of "I Love You" I think I might grow to love it.

Okay, I understand that's the sort of stuff that most 2-step fans loathe. So anyway, yeah, this totally rocks and I doubt I'll be tired of it any time soon.

There's a really nice remix of I Luv You on a gamelan/chimes type vibe...

reynolds pretty much smacked it with his "MC tools" surmise; what shocks me is the sheer amount of these types of spare tunes and their endless variations cf pulse x,y,44, eskimo beat, now the mario beat. the more recent musical mob and tunes have been, well, more musical, and undeniably well produced and detailed, but still maddening as erm 'songs'. i am firmly awaiting mindcrushing mantronix style bside dubmixes though

... a bit like 'grinding' really. because i think this is real intuitive flipside to missy's (ok not just missy's) 80s revivalism... all this uk garage rap is madly starting to sound like a rebirth of pre 86 hiphop to me

i'll develop this hunch soon

(yes that k-rob)

dizzy rascal should be in my top 10, but i didn't hear it until a month before the year ended so it didn't seem fair. speaking of top 10s, has OT Crew done anything else other than that "Dubplate" I went on about on nylpm a few months ago?

also, i am guilty of quite digging bingo beats 2, even though it gets boring as fuck in the last half. i was still crazy to put it in my top 10 though.

i am too, and my post earlier on this thread i think was really just me being apologetic because of it.

teebon e? any more info?

uptwon's forum might know. i thin kez and other such luminaries post on there so they generally know whats goion on but the tend to take the piss. http://www.uptownrecords.co.uk
i'll ask around. i have this on mp3 on my computer, but i cnat upload it. i tried to upload it to gabba.net but it didnt seem to work

FORWARD>>
>>THE FUTURE SOUND OF THE UNDERGROUND
THURSDAY 3RD APRIL >>

>>BENNY ILL
HATCHA>>
>>J DA FLEX B2B >>ORIS JAY
>>MC CRAZY D
>>£5 GENERAL ADMISSION
GIRLS FREE BEFORE 12>>
FROM 10 >> 2
Plastic People >> 147 Curtain Road >> London EC2 >> nearest tube > Old Street >> www.dubplate.net >>
for info call 020 7247 7252 >> or email info@badmanagement.org.uk >>
>> check out www.sleazenation.com magazine this month, free Oris Jay/J Da Flex CD + article on FWD inside>>

Frankly, it's amazing how much it's able to ignore what's happening on their doorstep. For me, in Amsterdam (not that far from Londen, really), it's frustrating how little UK garage is stocked in the dance shops (it used to be much more a few years ago). All these tunes I cannot buy! They don't seem to want my euros... I don't think the London producers realise how many people outside their own little circle would love to hear the music. And it's not just DJ's... How difficult can it be to regularly release CD's with the latest tunes?

sigh, if only, eh?

but whatev