why rap and violence

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what are the major reasons there seems to be more violence connected with rap music and culture than with other musics or cultures ( other than economic factors)

― ep, Wednesday, 13 November 2002 10:25 (twenty-three years ago)

Dunno. Rap v sXe? Rap v military bugle calls? Is it a lame cop-out if I say the question is ridiculous without even trying to answer it? I hate it when other people do that on this board, now I'm doing it myself. Dammit.

― dave q, Wednesday, 13 November 2002 10:41 (twenty-three years ago)

i said 'seems' you pussy

― ep, Wednesday, 13 November 2002 10:42 (twenty-three years ago)

'seems' to WHO? tho

― dave q, Wednesday, 13 November 2002 11:08 (twenty-three years ago)

to the general public maybe daveq? i think this might be a dated talking point now though - with the empthasis in hip hop today being more about hedonism than actual violence

to address your point though, granted there may be an element of institutionalised racism in the rap=violence thing but i'd say a large portion of hip hop in the charts for the last 15 years has carried a sense of aggression and menace in it musically if not verbally from hustlers to gangsta rap to thug playas, with one of the top 3 subjects in hip hop lyrics traditionally being about bigging your own (and your homies) ego up whilst simultaneously condemining or even threatening your critics and haters (from Ice T's 'COp Killer' to the Dre/Eazy E fracas right down to Eminem's jibes at Moby). i guess the vocal/lyrical factor coupled with the imagery of the accompanying videos and promotional artwork (generally reflecting the rappers as big, hard and pissed off) is the main thing, because in most forms of music there are examples that feature a degree of menace/fear/anger/hate (techno, heavy metal, sonically sharp/raw/intense music) so to single out a lot of hip hop for that would be wrong.

i was thinking about how last week everyone was talking about how Run DMC were so anti-violence and advocates of peace and goodwill generally, yet a lot of their work was very tough-sounding, raw and 'threatening' even - and whats more aggressive than 'ITANOMTHUB'? the misconception of rap=violence seems easy to make as a result.

― stevem (blueski), Wednesday, 13 November 2002 11:56 (twenty-three years ago)

you can make 'violent' music without advocating violence of course - too many people did not make the distinction perhaps

― stevem (blueski), Wednesday, 13 November 2002 11:58 (twenty-three years ago)

Death Row Recs. Blame ole Suge. heh

― nathalie (nathalie), Wednesday, 13 November 2002 12:16 (twenty-three years ago)

Maybe it 'seems' more violent to the general public because rappers forego any humility or self-justification, and brag all the time. Like, if somebody makes a career about bragging about how they don't take any shit and kill people for nothing etc then why should anyone give a shit when somebody ices THEM? This goes for all dead rap stars btw, fuck 'em. Except Jam Master Jay of course.

― dave q, Wednesday, 13 November 2002 12:42 (twenty-three years ago)

(perhaps the 'general public' likes to treat hip-hop like a pitbull in a cage, just wind it up and make it angrier and angrier until it kills something so you can shoot it?)

― dave q, Wednesday, 13 November 2002 12:45 (twenty-three years ago)

but i strongly suspect that the three people who shot Tupac, Biggie and Jay were all major listeners of hip hop and it also seems likely they'd been in contact with said victims prior to the shootings, mixing in similar circles/involved in similar/linked areas...certainly not your average legit man on the street. its hard to envisage perhaps because how could they do that as it would have such a damaging impact on the scene/community - so they didnt care about it in that respect but i dont think you can blame 'the general public' or 'the media' for what to me seems like problems hip hop's figureheads tend to bring on themselves

― stevem (blueski), Wednesday, 13 November 2002 14:33 (twenty-three years ago)

Ten years ago, the elusive "THEY" had attached violence to metal bands like Judas Priest and Iron Maiden and Slayer, and there were even court cases implicating those bands.

I've said it before and I'll say it again...the "image" associated with modern hip-hop is no different than the "image" associated with hard rock 10-15 years ago.

Violence has been a problem since long before the first MC flowed to his/her first breakbeat. Anyone who tries to attribute violence to music is just playing a retarded game of pin the blame on the muso a la PMRC/Tipper Gore.

― nickalicious, Wednesday, 13 November 2002 14:44 (twenty-three years ago)

i think the image is different because there is probably still an element of racism or at least racism-influenced thinking/action inherent in the industry, the media and the audience. i'm sure this has an effect on hip hop and black music you didnt have with heavy metal, though the implications for bands like Judas Priest and later Marilyn Manson were serious, no heavy metal performer got assassinated after all.

― stevem (blueski), Wednesday, 13 November 2002 14:50 (twenty-three years ago)

ethan I love you!!

― Josh (Josh), Wednesday, 13 November 2002 16:18 (twenty-three years ago)

Well, to a certain extent, I'd blame the media, who love to equate Hip Hop with violence to further discredit and demonize it (in much the same way they've done to Punk Rock and Metal).

But you also have to factor in Hip Hop's (dwindling?) obsession with street credibility and "realness". If you are constantly striving to save face when proving your cabable "hardness," you're invariably going to have to put your money where your mouth is at some point and summarily hurt someone, right? Thus -- violence.

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Wednesday, 13 November 2002 16:30 (twenty-three years ago)

ep once you discount economic (and race) factors there are no explanations for anything!

― Sterling Clover (s_clover), Wednesday, 13 November 2002 16:34 (twenty-three years ago)

b-but what about love?!

― jess (dubplatestyle), Wednesday, 13 November 2002 16:38 (twenty-three years ago)

("why are music writers afraid to talk about love?")

― jess (dubplatestyle), Wednesday, 13 November 2002 16:38 (twenty-three years ago)

I've said it before and I'll say it again...the "image" associated with modern hip-hop is no different than the "image" associated with hard rock 10-15 years ago.

There's less make-up and big hair associated with hip-hop now, and there was less gang violence and shootings associated with hard rock 15 years ago.

But no-one's attributing violence to hip-hop - people are pointing out that in the minds of most people, the association exists, and asking why.

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Wednesday, 13 November 2002 16:43 (twenty-three years ago)

It's cos rap sounds better when delivered with venom and bite. It's much easier to talk that way if you're talking about violence. Hence more songs about violence.

Duh.

― Jacob, Wednesday, 13 November 2002 16:45 (twenty-three years ago)

no i think rap sounds just as good just talking about love and sex, music or other issues and it doesnt need venom in this respect - i think Pharrell sounds better and more convincing talking about those subjects rather than talking about violence for example, Busta Rhymes is in the middle, Chuck D would be at the other end - horses for courses i guess

― stevem (blueski), Wednesday, 13 November 2002 16:55 (twenty-three years ago)

Okay, but if you look at rap's roots in freestyle battles, obv people there aren't going to be talking about love and sex, they're going to be cussing each other. MCs learn the craft by using verbal violence on one another, so the parameters of 'good' rap are fixed early on as being 'good'=aggressive.

― Jacob, Wednesday, 13 November 2002 16:59 (twenty-three years ago)

jess -- love doesn't explain anything. it exists to be explained itself.

(/bad aphorism generator)

― Sterling Clover (s_clover), Wednesday, 13 November 2002 17:05 (twenty-three years ago)

I haven't felt like rap has been popularly associated with violence for a long time. Today certainly far less than in the early-mid 90's. This popular perceptual change has reflected back at hip-hop so now most of that references violence much less, too. I mean, sure you have people like the Clipse, but the content of their lyrics just seem like affectations, like they're removed from it, like it's only used to set a mood as a backdrop to the production, which is central (as opposed to, say, tracks off the Murder Was the Case sndtrk., in which the violence felt clear and real and frightening).

― Dan I., Wednesday, 13 November 2002 21:05 (twenty-three years ago)

Hold up: you guys are all talking about violence among rappers, or in rap music itself. But Ethan's question is tremendously unclear as to what, exactly rap "culture" means -- does it have to do with the people actually involved with rap, or rap's "central" or hardcore fanbase, or people who are interested in rap in general, or the general image and behavior the public mentally associates with it, or what?

― nabisco (nabisco), Wednesday, 13 November 2002 22:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Alternate answer: rap was still an impressionable young genre right when the crack epidemic hit its core audience.

― nabisco (nabisco), Wednesday, 13 November 2002 22:02 (twenty-three years ago)

two weeks pass...

― Josh (Josh), Sunday, 1 December 2002 07:50 (twenty-three years ago)

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