Elliott Smith - Cash Cow or Evil Sonuvabitch?

Heatmiser were a great band. Because of the *other* guy.

We're still friends ... I just don't listen to her musc recommendations any more.

Never heard Heat Miser, so I can't comment on that.

And then I read Mike's post, and you know, Alexis has a point.

That pretty much sums it up for me.

Good and fair question. *thinks* Well, like RATM, my first direct exposure to him solo outside of Heatmiser was live, when he ended up as the opening act to the Tindersticks in late 1997 (this was just before the Good Will Hunting-related hype kicked in, I think). Nicole was at that show as well and would have her own thoughts, but I think we were both fairly bored with his Ever So Tender and Sensitive Star presentation on the stage and his lapping up of the screams of adulation from up front. That, however, is just the concert instead of the music itself, but I remember thinking really very little of the music at that time.

Repeated encounters with his work haven't helped any. I actually think he can do great in collaborations -- I've mentioned Heatmiser, then there's his work with Lois, who I adore. But him on his own just makes me either shrug or bark with annoyance.

He also seemed quite a nice chap when he stood next to me and ordered a drink at Bowlie, so that gives him brownie points.

Among my purchases were Either/Or, which I have always coveted ("Say Yes"), and I'm listening to S/T for the first time, although I have heard him play the songs live many times. I don't like the Dreamworks stuff nearly as much.

Elliott seems like an oddball. Has anyone seen the documentary about him, Parallel Lines, I think it is? Anyway, he's cute, so there. :P

Does this mean he'll go away now that Jack White is here?

Elliott Smith - (Got my) Cash, Sonuvabitch.

cool thread

yeesh

yeah, i'm kind of at a loss here

great historical perspective-

cool thread

XO sounding like one of the greatest things ever made today

This is the true follow-up to Odessey And Oracle

lol wtf was wrong with like the first ten posters on this thread. get more fiber and listen to cool tunes by a troubled guitarist ffs

I may delete the minidisc I made of him.

^lmao

good work defending him early on JCLC! SOME WERE TRUE

I once downloaded an Elliot Smith song on limewire. Listened, thought it was mislabeled and it was actually the “okaaay let’s go” kid.

"Waltz #2" is so beautiful, songwriting doesn't get better than that

I'll rep for "baby Britain," what a catchy tune

Figure 8 is even fucking better. Holy shit. It is almost like people couldn't get their heads around this so they denied it had happened

Figure 8 is the one I listen to the most these days because it feels like the least gloomy of his records — though it is certainly gloomy enough, haha.

It feels like a lot of younger (Gen Z) musicians and artists hold him in high esteem, which makes me happy.

"Waltz #2" is so beautiful, songwriting doesn't get better than that

from the bridge through the end is just so devastating -- the focus gathers, the changes in the bridge are like this harbinger of "in the place where I make no mistakes / in the place where I have what it takes" -- listening to him is painful for me now, he was truly the best of us

if you haven't seen this incredible clip of him silencing the smug future host of AFV in this extremely 90s wacky morning TV show it's truly an incredible time capsule

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dwsSbAKs3yo

Figure 8 is even fucking better.

I'm trying to remember who the Dreamworks A&R guy was who I knew a tiny tiny bit, like through email, me thinking maybe I could get a bite of that major label exposure all my peers seemed to be getting, and he knew I liked E.S. and he put a copy of the Figure 8 advance in my hand outside a show in SF, maybe during NoisePop when it was ChangeMusic? I had high hopes but at the time it seemed like a mess compared to XO, and Either/Or, and that devastating s/t on KRS. I think his work in Heatmiser is still generally underestimated; it's still so raging up until Mic City Sons and then it becomes so clear where he was going, you can really hear what's in his head. These little turnarounds that just make the song come alive, these melodies that just float. He should be living in a comfortable place away from the world counting his W's, reflecting on all the strangers who've taken solace in his work over a long career. God damn it.

the s/t is just a pure thing, he's one of those guitar players that seems simple until you dig into it, he had such an idiosyncratic approach, deceptively odd

great phrasing too, like the way he hangs the end of the lyric "he's acting dumb/that's what you've come.....to expect" or in Clementine the way he sings "what if she thinks so/but just didn't say so?"

in a couple of hours Figure 8 has gone to being one of the most important albums. what the fuck. i was told, but i had to make myself believe. this is beyond staggering, this is full psychedelic progressive pop songwriting of the first order

figure 8 is unreal yeah. he was so so so so so good. i dusted off "independence day" from x/o for a few weeks earlier this year, that one's always been a favorite - so much between innocence and experience articulated in the barest of lyrics. the actual chords and melody... i don't think i've heard songwriting that communicates on that level before. just a total miracle.

Oof I felt in physical pain for him on that morning show. He really did not want to be there, but I love the contrast with that fucking puppet vibing and everyone looking moved while he performs.

haha yeah i can't really watch that clip it's too real

i've revisited figure 8 a few times in the past few years and every time i am just blown away, way more than i was at the time, when it seemed more like xo mk 2. idek how to describe it other than it's like near-constant sonic invention meeting up with the most perfect melodies ever written. anyway "la" is stuck in my head again

if you haven't seen this incredible clip of him silencing the smug future host of AFV in this extremely 90s wacky morning TV show it's truly an incredible time capsule

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dwsSbAKs3yo

― Blues Guitar Solo Heatmap (Free Download) (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Thursday, June 27, 2024 8:29 AM

thanks for this. about 90 seconds into the song, i bursted into laughter. totally surreal. what a perfect microcosm of the sentiment of this revive. he does seem more beloved than ever by new fans and folks who remember his passing.

i fully support this.♡

i have always been a casual fan, but i remember when he died and it was certainly news. but because of how he died and his perceived persona, i remember it was an instant punchline for a lot of people. i was working at tower records and writing for okayplayer at the time and so was very in tune with THE DISCOURSE. i didn't know his music well enough, but i knew i liked from a basement a lot when it came out because i was paying closer attention. it was around the same time i was getting into twee/c86 stuff and he seemed to share a lot of the same emotional dna so of course i loved him, but in retrospect only unfortunately. it is indeed remarkable that his records were just getting better and better with every new one. he deserved ☆a lot☆ better.

how beautiful is “Angeles”

the enemy is within
don't confuse me with him
the truth is otherwise
stupidity tries!

that morning show clip is remarkable to me not for the deep 1995ness of it, which is what people usually comment on, but for how he draws in the people who will respond to what he's doing -- including the host, who's asking the "funny" questions he's supposed to ask; but you can feel his actual curiosity, what's the deal with this guy, why am I talking to a guy who clearly is ambivalent about doing this -- but they connect a little and then you can watch the guy responding to the song. ES's timing is unreal, it's like he's got a great drummer living in his skull, and those seventh chords right before he heads back to the tonic...they're just immensely satisfying, they're super NARRATIVE, they pull you in or pull you in deeper, and the unforced agility of the melody as it develops - as the camera travels around you can see the people who're going, oh, shit, this is really something (and the ones who haven't paid close enough attention to get drawn in).

I dunno about you, but I think Elliott Smith is a genious. Anybody who can be so idiotic to hate someone so much obviously isn't a fucking rocket scientist. If you don't like it, leave it alone, ass fucks.

― Danny, Monday, 20 August 2001 10:00 (twenty-two years ago) bookmarkflaglink

Angeles is incredibly fun to play on guitar.

For the post a controp thread: waltz #1 > waltz #2

Don't care for his vocal timbre in #1, the lyrics are questionably juvenile, but it's the prettiest damn melody and instrumental he ever drummed up. Fight me

It's the 1-4 of either/or for me. The guitar following the vocal melody with the mid-era beatles-esque chords backing it in speed trials. The stupid snare drum on Alameda. The cringe, disney-cute open tuned guitar of ballad of big nothing. The walking bass note in the chorus of between the bars, finishing with a major to minor change of the same chord (essential element to any classic song)

I dunno, when I play Elliott Smith straight-faced in my mind, I hate him. This stuff sucks when it's self-serious. Lyrics are narcissistic, music just a complete rip-off of rubber soul-magical mystery tour but with dated 90s production... (like tell me pictures of me isn't just every song on sgt. Peppers rolled into one?)

But then when I listen to him with a sense of humour, recant my cynical attitude, and just enjoy the bops... he's pretty bloody fantastic ain't he???

re: that clip posted above - i'll be honest, i'm on that ATV host's side. he had a job, he's doing a shitty nardwuar but is that literally the worst thing in the world? ES is just hanging him out to dry and the host still politely sits and vibes with him while he performs.

someone please load the elliott smith Morning Radio show clip ASAP because that must be good.

i remember trying to learn some song of his on guitar and after a few cracks at it thought- "this guy is playing these lines and singing as well?!"

I'm trying to remember who the Dreamworks A&R guy was who I knew a tiny tiny bit, like through email, me thinking maybe I could get a bite of that major label exposure all my peers seemed to be getting, and he knew I liked E.S. and he put a copy of the Figure 8 advance in my hand outside a show in SF, maybe during NoisePop when it was ChangeMusic? I had high hopes but at the time it seemed like a mess compared to XO, and Either/Or, and that devastating s/t on KRS. I think his work in Heatmiser is still generally underestimated; it's still so raging up until Mic City Sons and then it becomes so clear where he was going, you can really hear what's in his head. These little turnarounds that just make the song come alive, these melodies that just float. He should be living in a comfortable place away from the world counting his W's, reflecting on all the strangers who've taken solace in his work over a long career. God damn it.

― J Edgar Noothgrush (Joan Crawford Loves Chachi), Thursday, June 27, 2024 8:40 AM bookmarkflaglink

Are you talking about Luke Wood? He was one of the "indie" Dreamworks A&Rs.

I don't think so much I'm not sure -- it was so long ago.

*"but," not "much"

the last 4 tracks of FABOAH have ended me

how. how did he achieve this. what a sicko

shooting star into memory lane probably the most genuinely unhinged, brilliant sequencing ever imagined

That host guy seemed familiar so I finally looked him up. Tom Bergeron, also host of America’s Funniest Home Videos. Which I never watched myself but often heard coming from another room.

He was also the host of Dancing with the Stars

I have the same expression on my face listening to that performance as the woman's at 03:50 in.

Yeah, I love the way everybody shuts up and is spellbound when he plays in that video and some others that I saw linked there.

Reminds me of something a friend told me about a Jonathan Richman show he was at where the crowd was talking loudly over the performance so Jonathan instructed the band to "play softer" and it totally worked.

Reminds me of something a friend told me about a Jonathan Richman show he was at where the crowd was talking loudly over the performance so Jonathan instructed the band to "play softer" and it totally worked.

I heard that same story about Yo La Tengo.

I also did it once myself a hundred years ago when played shows and... it didn't work.

Heh. Probably only works for certain kinds of acts tbh

So I used to sort of only like a few of Elliott's bigger "hits" and thought his playing and writing was too fussy and gimmicky or something, wishing he would drop the one-man-band thing but now I think I mostly get it and don't have any such reservations anymore.

I still do like when Pete Thomas shows up though.