the boss v the coug

*obv bruce has a lot more "good" songs than johnny does

mellencamp is a more entertaining personality

*obv bruce has a lot more "good" songs than johnny does

― reggie (qualmsley)

mmm dunno about that! Mellencamp 1980-1994 had an amazing run and was a far more successful singles artist.

the Boss for sure, even though I like the Coug

This is a joke

Bruce Springsteen

the boss writes a lot of songs about cars. the coug named himself after a car

treeship otm. cougs has some jams, springsteen at his best is a songwriter of the highest caliber and is genuinely insightful about how people in relationships feel & behave. if "has good singles" is the yardstick, yes indeed, the cougs has some good singles. they're trifles next to springsteen. IOW qualms otm, Springsteen has more "good" songs where the quotation marks indicate "songs that are better than the ones JCC has been able to write thus far"

I do like this as a poll though - once cougar decides on who he wants to be, it's exactly "a less ambitious version of the springsteen persona & midwestern rather than east coast"

haven't cared about Springsteen since I was a tween. Cougar has better singles = coug wins

never actually heard john cougar mellencamp before so just watched a couple of YouTube vids. seems to be a lot of clapping involved.

Springsteen is a unique figure in rock—literary but totally unpretentious. As a kid I had a copy of The River and was fascinated by it, especially the title track. (My parents had very few LPs and I was thebonly one who would play them on the dusty stereo system set up in the basemen.) There is so much longing and loss in those albums that I knew were foreign to my experience, but I could still feel it. A very important early encounter with art/imaginative identification for me.

As an idiot teenager I turned against Springsteen for a while because my parents and aunts and uncles loved him so much, and he seemed to be the poet of like, Long Island/New Jersey suburbia, which was a world I wanted to get away from. I always thought of him as a true poet though, not just an entertainer. When I returned to some of these albums in my twenties they were much better than I even remembered.

So like, nothing against Cougar, but Springsteen is just in a different league for me

Of course the boss is the best. Do you wanna get fired?

xp @ Treeesh - me too and I don't even consider myself a springsteen fan - I think the only albums I've ever owned hard copies of were Tunnel of Love & Nebraska. but just from every angle of songwriting - melody, lyrics, basic structural songwriting chops - one of these dudes is ridiculously talented, and the other's pretty good. somebody point me at Mellencamp's equivalent of "Blinded by the Light" or "Fire" - Bruce is a five-tools player, could have worked in the Brill Building if he'd been a little younger.

I hereby sentence Joan Crawford to spend 50 minutes in a basemetn listening to Scarecrow and The Lonesome Jubilee.

Springsteen's the better songwriter, both are cornballs, both have excellent bands: Coog had Kenny Aronoff for god's sake.

While they both have upbeat clap-alongs, Bruce can also go deep and dark in a way that is out of Coug’s league

I think JCM's Jackie Brown is as good as any of those dark ballads that Springsteen did on Nebraska and elsewhere.

much respect to Springsteen but like Bjork I could just never get into his voice or tunes. Shocked by the Couggy challops itt even tho I agree

one of these dudes is ridiculously talented, and the other's pretty good.

^^^^ how is this even a question

just two american kids doin the best they can

it took the boss 20 years to get as corny as the cougs got in 5

"brilliant disguise," "state trooper," "thunder road," "rosalita," "the river," come on...

Springsteen's the better songwriter, both are cornballs, both have excellent bands: Coog had Kenny Aronoff for god's sake.

― You like queer? I like queer. Still like queer. (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, October 2, 2018 1:27 PM (one hour ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

As much as I dig Springsteen, I'll take (Mellencamp-era) Aronoff over Max any day. No way could Max have pulled off the majestic drum entrance at 2:28 in "Check It Out."

I collected this top ten a year ago:

1. Hurts So Good
2. Get a Leg Up
3. Rain in the Scarecrow
4. Jack and Diane
5. Paper in Fire
6. Jackie Brown
7. Wild Nights w/Meshell Ndgeocello
8. Check It Out
9. Rumbleseat
10. Play Guitar
11. Ain’t Even Done with the Night

^^^ amazing performances and good songs, all of'em

coug vs. petty might be a better faceoff, but still

if we're arguing who had the best band between the three, petty wins in a walk

I collected this top ten a year ago:

i need a lister that won't drive me crazy

haven't heard that ndgeocello collab, instantly curious

tbh it's probably a draw. I only care about three Springsteen albums at best, maybe the same for Coog. Both continue recording shit no one cares about for the sake of touring.

lol it's a van cover??? wow

I hereby sentence Joan Crawford to spend 50 minutes in a basemetn listening to Scarecrow and The Lonesome Jubilee.

I actually did a fair bit of time with The Scarecrow when it was new, and it was the one that got me to concede that the dude's got some talent. But -- and again, I'm not a big Springsteen stan, my position here is from the standpoint of a songwriter looking at both these dudes' work -- if Springsteen wrote The Scarecrow, none of it would even get released & he'd mine the best tracks on it for stray phrases & turnarounds. As an album is just is not on his level.

As much as I dig Springsteen, I'll take (Mellencamp-era) Aronoff over Max any day. No way could Max have pulled off the majestic drum entrance at 2:28 in "Check It Out."

This is crazy talk. Listen to the last minute of "Born in the USA."

oddly, when I started to get into pop music roundabout '82 in Louisville Ky, Springsteen was not on the radio: it was Nebraska time. It was still the AOR era, pre-classic rock radio, when you heard acts that had albums out right then and you did not hear acts that did not. And Springsteen pre Born in the USA just wasn't that big in that town, so the Boss canon was not heard on local rock radio at the time. I remember hearing "hungry Heart" in like 83 and thinking it was the Romantics.

But Coug? he is the Springsteen of Louisville, being that there's a strong Hoosier presence there. 1982-1984 is American fool and Uh huh time: the hits and album cuts were slammed on rock and pop radio at the time. "Play guitar" and Floyd's "not now John" were often played with the "shits" unexpurgated on rock radio. There was a red-necky, shit kicker quality that stood certain rock artists in good stead in the southern-leaning midwest at the time, and which Coug had in spades. In the early 80s, country was not at all cool in Lville, it was something yr grandparents liked.

xpost: which is to say that the lack of radio-ready Springsteen in 82 probly was an opportunity for Coug, who had for some some time been considered to have been a credulous pawn led around by the nose by Tony Defries/billy gaff and needed to be considered credible. Also: the Boss is sposed to be a diamond geezer; Coug by all accounts is a miserable asshole.

Also: the Boss is sposed to be a diamond geezer; Coug by all accounts is a miserable asshole.

as a former Bloomington resident I can attest to the truth of this

I never want to hear a single one of his songs ever again, now that I think about it

This is crazy talk. Listen to the last minute of "Born in the USA."

― Plinka Trinka Banga Tink (Eliza D.), Tuesday, October 2, 2018 3:20 PM (twenty-seven minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

And that's something I don't think Aronoff could've pulled off.

That minute in BITUSA is my favorite Max moment, hands-down. And I don't dislike his playing generally, but he's too stiff and ham-fisted for my taste. Aronoff (from Uh-Huh to whatever the last accordion-and-violin album Coug made was) has a loose, trashy, garagey quality that I love.

Hate Springsteen, have occasionally enjoyed a Mellencamp song. Would take Seger and/or Petty over both of 'em without blinking.

Yeah. These days I'll take Petty too -- not that they have anything in common except white Midwesterners liked them.

i'll take any of them over the gaslight anthem

I'd take Springsteen for Manfred Mann's cover of "Blinded by the Light". Rarely has a cover been so much better than the original. MM puts it on another level. I only have a vague idea about Mellencamp but don't care about him.

Mellencamp is a complete nonentity this side of the Atlantic, Jimmy Buffett probably sells more, but I hate Springsteen so much I'd be tempted to vote for him anyway - except I'll do the decent thing and leave the Americans to their American Things.

Springsteen's the better songwriter, both are cornballs, both have excellent bands: Coog had Kenny Aronoff for god's sake

but springsteen had springsteen. mellencamp's guitarists were good but they weren't in the boss's league. add nils lofgren to that and it's a guitar landslide.

What would the Oz version be? Paul Kelly vs Jimmy Barnes?

as a songwriter, the coug tended to get to the hook faster than the boss did. he had more bubblegum and more garage in him. he was a good sprinter. but not sure he had the stamina for the long run like the boss did.

there is a hardcore band called john cougar concentration camp, pretty funny

Coug vs Petty is a better match. And Petty wins that. Coug is an ok songwriter and performer, but I consider him the same calibre as Bryan Adams.

oh come ON.

I suspect some of y'all, older than me, still suffer from the embarrassment of listening to him in real time in 1982-1988.

(also, Bryan Adams has several good songs, none as well-arranged or with as many good lines as Mellencamp's0.

Peaked at 9 on the Hot 100 apparently

("Secret Garden," in a re-release, for some reason, at #19).

Jerry McGuire?

Ah, yeah, that explains it.

These kind of factoids fuel rock tropes about authenticity, don't they? Classic rock song X was kept from the number one slot by... by Barry Manilow! Like going to number 2 keeps one in the underdog house.

Well, at least Bruce was kept from number one by "When Doves Fucking Cry."

the things you could say on the radio back then....

Will Gaga's soundtrack about the perils of not keepin' it real keep Greta Van Fleet from reaching the top of the mountain? The battle is eternal.

(xp) doves can fucking cry until the dawn, IIRC.

These kind of factoids fuel rock tropes about authenticity, don't they? Classic rock song X was kept from the number one slot by... by Barry Manilow! Like going to number 2 keeps one in the underdog house.

― saddest kamancheh (bendy), Monday, November 5, 2018

iirc real rockists don't even look at the charts

Automatic thread bump. This poll's results are now in.

its not enough

Good turnout.

it raised the issues that the viters cared about

Did the Coug ever appear on anybody else's record or collaborate with anybody, aside from that one Meshell Ndegeocello track?

only 13 contrarians? was this poll too contrarian?!

Joan Jett on Tumblin Down

Played tambourine on Windowlicker

suck it, coug

Joan Jett on Tumblin Down

― Greta Van Fleek (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Tuesday, November 6, 2018 7:44 AM (one hour ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

ha weird i guess maybe this is an old myth i heard years ago, not mentioned in the wiki

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crumblin%27_Down

"Peaceful World" is a song written and recorded by American rock artist John Mellencamp and India.Arie, and was featured on Mellencamp's album Cuttin' Heads.

Coug also has 5 songs with Carlene Carter, 1 with Martina McBride, 1 with a Little Big Town singer, 1 with Joan Baez

oh yeah, and Chuck D on "Cuttin' Heads"

When I saw him at Farm Aid in 1998, he had a rapper come out during "Jack and Diane".

New Jack and Diane

He produced James McMurtry's first album, Too Long in the Wasteland, and it's got that Kenny Arnoff angry country sound.

Some people say I'm obnoxious and lazy
That I'm uneducated
And my opinion means nothin'
But I know I'm a real good dancer
Don't need to look over my shoulder
To see what I'm after

love this lyric

i missed this poll but would have voted Springsteen

Cougar for me has catchy well-phrased songs & has a certain depth to his songwriting but i just don’t think he went as deep for as long as Springsteen did

also just purely on small town cred, Springsteen repeatedly nails the emptiness & longing of wishing you were somewhere else, and/or the angry caged feeling of being stuck. Mellencamp doesn’t seem to walk around in those feelings as much, it always seemed more surface observations to me or maybe just converting the negative into a bravado that’s fine but not as effective for me personally, different kinda writer too.

But yeah fuck, all the best Springsteen songs are screenplays, with characters & worlds & heartaches & questions & conflict ... there’s no competition in my mind.

love a lot of Coug but on his true classic cuts the lyrics only cut as deep as Livin on a Prayer.

ouch. tough but (mostly) fair, though JBJ never wrote a pop lyric as profound as "life goes on / long after the thrill of living is gone." That one stings more and more with each passing year

yeah idk... it would be cool if he were like 10% more artful but just off the top of my head "check it out" still manages to hit someplace pretty real

there are some great JCM lyrics and songs.

none of them even *approach* Springsteen.

"Check it Out" and "Cherry Bomb" were great singles. That was a good period for the 'coog.

The Boss' smugness usually rankles me a little more than JCM's, if that makes sense

I like both of them though and if I'm being honest have logged far more hours listening to Bruce.

Keep on cooglin’
cooglin’ how

Come on up for the cooglin’

Eh. Dumb initial question, like asking if Dryden is as good as Shakespeare, or, to fit the times, Tom Petty is as good as Dylan.

i.e I 'm gonna listen to Born in the U.S.A. and Scarecrow equally, and why not?

well, yeah

Bruce's sentimental horseshit about fuckin' JERSEY, my native soil, I've always found ludicrous

can't listen to that '70s crap

arenas helped him

gtfo w/ Dryden and Shakespeare, "populists"

You know what's even lamer than romanticizing New Jersey? Romanticizing Indiana.

they made money with their poems and plays, love mutton

Springsteen only became interesting after 1980 anyway.

by default I prefer tractors to cars (lifelong pedestrian)

xxp

xpost He himself, maybe. But the music took a shift before that.

alfred i’m afraid you’ve lost me

love them both, will shit on anyone who dislikes Scarecrow.

Shit On The Scarecrow/Piss On The Plow

Tom Petty > Dave Alvin > Pat Todd > Melonfarmer > the fuckin' Boss (I fuckin' quit)

the boss meets the coug! (aka ain't that americana for you and me)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nhppxrSzQ24

Ned to thread

Been on a Boss kick lately and ofc this is no contest

I can't stand the Coug, and Glory Days is my least favorite Springsteen song, mostly because it reminds me of Jack and Diane, but that video still made me smile.

This is a great thread. Especially all the stuff about Browning.