NEO FOLK (???)

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So I was reading this article in the guardian about German neo-nazi goths at the weekend and cackling at their general absurdity. Apparently, though, they like to listen to something called 'neo-folk' which I thought sounded kind of interesting:

"As its name implies, neo-folk draws on the musical heritage of Bob Dylan, Joan Baez and other protest singers of the 1960s and 1970s. Some German groups dig further back into the past, updating and reworking traditional folk tunes. The acoustic guitar is central to its music, which also features flutes, cellos and violins. Yet neo-folk is anything but folksy. Punk has had an influence on its evolution and much of the music could be described as industrial. Unusually extensive percussion sets are typical of the genre. Another characteristic is that gentle melody-making can all of a sudden give way to something much more visceral: the lead singer of Darkwood seized hold of a pair of heavy drumsticks and beat out an intimidating tattoo on a bass drum. It was like Japanese Kodo drumming, but with the rhythms of a Prussian parade ground. The drumming rose in a crescendo, then ended as abruptly as it had begun, prompting the loudest cheers of the night. "

So, anyone heard any? Recommendations?

― Jacob, Monday, 18 November 2002 12:30 (twenty-three years ago)

Death In June is very popular in those circles.

― Siegbran (eofor), Monday, 18 November 2002 12:45 (twenty-three years ago)

A band on the blatantly fascist side of things would be Lord Wind, moody slavic folk melodies with bombastic timpani, somewhat soundtrack-ish. But the article refers mostly to the whole World Serpent/Tesco related scene of Death in June/Current 93/Blood Axis/Darkwood/etc toys with nazi imagery in a way that borders on an ironic/artistic fashion (with S&M/bondage references et al) but this approach still makes them popular with the boys in brown. Prophecy Productions has a large roster of dark neo-folk bands (Empyrium, Tenhi, Naervaer, Of The Wand And The Moon) but these are not nazi related.

The neonazis somewhat flock from scene to scene, so it seems. They tried punk, they tried (black) metal, they tried gabber, but the whole socially conservative point of view never really fitted in with either. Folk is the latest fad, and from a historic point of view probably the most logical thing for them.

― Siegbran (eofor), Monday, 18 November 2002 13:16 (twenty-three years ago)

Random thoughts from someone who knows nothing about the subject (me):

I thought the article was unfair.

The main picture on the first spread looked good but was not a photo of the people the article was about, as was admitted in the caption.

The writer seemed happy to confuse goths (or gothics), Nazi/fascists and satanists and offered at best anecdotal evidence for whatever his point was.

Daniel and Manuela Ruda clearly aren't pleasant people and their story is interesting, if you like that sort of thing, but there are many 'normal' people who do terrible things. They were married, does that mean they were Christians too?

Has anyone here heard anything by "Bloodsucking Freaks". Is it just me, or if you were going to spread a political message wouldn't you choose music with words rather than grunts? Oh hang on, I've heard Napalm Death.

Would anyone here consider themselves a goth? Are they in it for more than the eyeliner?

Mortanius, despite his stupid name, seems reasonable in what he says. The naysayers employed by the writer remain anonymous.

What exactly is a "Black Sun" ? Sounds like it could be one of those symbols people wear jsut because it looks nice. I'd no idea what it looks like or what it means.

― meirion john lewis (mei), Monday, 18 November 2002 13:27 (twenty-three years ago)

I just don't know where to even start. Although I think there are probably certain themes worth thinking about here, this is the 2nd time I know of in a matter of 2-3 months that The G has had a tabloid-quality go at Goths - has some editor there recently been dumped by their gothy shag-partner or something?

I know ppl who are into this stuff, and there's been a monthly club playing such material for about 12-18 months around these parts, but I'm not into it myself - 'Toroidh' is the only name I can remember for you to Google. From other posts I'd say Seigbran seems like Da Man in all matters of music like this, so he is almost certainly OTM in both his recs and his evaluations.

― Snowy Mann (rdmanston), Monday, 18 November 2002 14:04 (twenty-three years ago)

Yes, but what does it sound like?

It's intriguing because it's a whole musical axis that sounds utterly alien to me, so I want to check it out, but not if it just sounds like Clannad, if you see what I mean...

― Jacob, Monday, 18 November 2002 16:16 (twenty-three years ago)

Siegbran's post gives you the best idea. There are homepages for all the bands he talks about, explore and study! I actually have some Current 93 with me at work here today.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Monday, 18 November 2002 16:23 (twenty-three years ago)

In defence of the piece, I think the writer does make it fairly clear that the gothic scene and the neo-nazi scene are two different groups with only a slim margin of crossover. The problem is, this exposes his introduction as something of a sensationalist hook. 'What is this hidden Satanic Nazi Vampire evil at the heart of goth?' it pertains to thunder, before going on to conclude that um, there is none, actually - at least, none *we* can prove.

Still, it feels like there is at least some substance to this story, which surely marks it apart from the whole crock of Marilyn Manson Kills Kiddies For Satan stories that appear occasionally in the US media.

― Jason J, Monday, 18 November 2002 16:43 (twenty-three years ago)

Yes, but what does it sound like?

Somewhere between ritualistic/Dead Can Dance-like ethno-rhythms, traditional folk music (acoustic guitars, flutes and what have you) and the occational venture in some more noisy/industrial territory.

― Siegbran (eofor), Monday, 18 November 2002 16:57 (twenty-three years ago)

Also, the singing is often quite bad in an overemoting self-important kind of way: Death In June's neo-nazi art terrorist stylings being especially noteworthy here.

― J0hn Darn13ll3 (J0hn Darn13ll3), Monday, 18 November 2002 17:04 (twenty-three years ago)

Isn't there sometimes some semi-Wagnerian bombastic orchestral sampling stuff knocking about in there too?

― Snowy Mann (rdmanston), Monday, 18 November 2002 18:16 (twenty-three years ago)

The But, What Ends When the Symbols Shatter? album is still a very, very good album. Anyway, this is also an interesting attack on Doug Pearce of Death In June and his "aesthetic fascism as pornography" approach.

― Siegbran (eofor), Monday, 18 November 2002 18:17 (twenty-three years ago)

http://www.adl.org/hate_symbols/processed_new_images/Sumwheel3.gif

This is a sunwheel. While it is an old pagan symbol with no particular nazi history, neonazis use this as a (discreet) alternative for the (banned) swastika. Though loads of people probably wear these symbols on necklaces/etc without knowing the current neonazi connection.

― Siegbran (eofor), Monday, 18 November 2002 23:07 (twenty-three years ago)

one year passes...

Dead Raven Choir would probably fit into this clique from a strictly musical point of view, but, since he is originally from Poland, he would probably puke bile at the idea of being associated in any way w/ nazis, neo- or otherwise.

― John Bullabaugh (John Bullabaugh), Sunday, 1 February 2004 19:23 (twenty-two years ago)

that relatively new dead raven choir "sevenfold songs of death" cd is amazing, but totally outside the scope of this question. but if you've ever wanted to hear "yellow rose of texas" performed as a droning black metal/noise hybrid...

― el sabor de gene (yournullfame), Monday, 2 February 2004 00:11 (twenty-two years ago)

since he is originally from Poland, he would probably puke bile at the idea of being associated in any way w/ nazis, neo- or otherwise.
There's a surprisingly sizable nazi-movement in Poland though. Or, if not sizable, at least loud.

― Øystein H-O (Øystein H-O), Monday, 2 February 2004 02:19 (twenty-two years ago)

It was through a black metal fanzine, in fact, that he met Manuela, after placing an ad that read: "Black-haired vampire seeks princess of darkness who despises everything and everybody and has bidden farewell to life."

You have to admire them for being so over the top there's really no way to effectively make fun of them.

― fortunate hazel (f. hazel), Monday, 2 February 2004 03:41 (twenty-two years ago)

two years pass...

There was a feature on some Neo-Folk box set in terrorizer a few months back. Not knowing the background to it made me feel uneasy about it though. Yeah it had scott walker and stuff on it, but i've heard too many bad things about neo-folk being full of neo-nazis.

I have noticed that Terrorizer doesnt really take a political stance with this when readers write in defending some of black metals right wing politics. I'm not sure thats a good thing.
So basically i'm asking- is there really a neo-nazi/fascist background to all this stuff or just a few of the bands?

Sorry about my poor english.

― Patric, Monday, 13 March 2006 02:45 (nineteen years ago)

Patric, your English is better than that of plenty of the people hear who speak English.

How do In Extremo (i.e., "Die Verrucketen Sind In Der Stadt*, 1998) fit into this?

― xhuxk, Monday, 13 March 2006 02:57 (nineteen years ago)

"but i've heard too many bad things about neo-folk being full of neo-nazis."

neo-nazis don't actually leap out of your cd player when you are listening to the stuff though. don't be scared.

― scott seward (scott seward), Monday, 13 March 2006 03:02 (nineteen years ago)

Patric, your English is better than that of plenty of the people hear who speak English.

WOCKA WOCKA

― team jaxon (jaxon), Monday, 13 March 2006 03:52 (nineteen years ago)

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