Dominique Leone and Ryan Pitchfork I'MA CALLIN' YOU OUT!

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GHOST IN THE MACHINE OVER DIRTY MIND ?!!! IMA KILL YOU!

― James Blount (James Blount), Tuesday, 19 November 2002 04:53 (twenty-two years ago)

Alert the Hague - http://www.pitchforkmedia.com/top/80s/index2.shtml

― James Blount (James Blount), Tuesday, 19 November 2002 04:53 (twenty-two years ago)

haha i love how our beloved mark richard-san sneaks in e2-e4 (kinda overrated anyway what w/the treacly santana guitar dribbled over the end...what, no cybotron or daf?) and the next record...THEY MIGHT BE GIANTS.

― jess (dubplatestyle), Tuesday, 19 November 2002 05:01 (twenty-two years ago)

Every record on that list is either ranked too high or too low. Sub-trifean at best.

― James Blount (James Blount), Tuesday, 19 November 2002 05:04 (twenty-two years ago)

Weird. The timing made me assume that Pitchfork had set about revising their canon (in light of post-punk, electroclash, discover/rooty, etc.) but it seems as though the canon has survived mostly unscathed.

― vahid (vahid), Tuesday, 19 November 2002 05:05 (twenty-two years ago)

If by 'the canon' you mean 'the Police' then yeah.

― James Blount (James Blount), Tuesday, 19 November 2002 05:06 (twenty-two years ago)

heehee, i know what the top five are, shall i reveal on this thread and blow their wad for them?

― jess (dubplatestyle), Tuesday, 19 November 2002 05:08 (twenty-two years ago)

bluebell knoll over treasure? i think not

― electric sound of jim (electricsound), Tuesday, 19 November 2002 05:09 (twenty-two years ago)

1. The Dream of the Blue Turtles

2. Zenyatta Mondatta

3. ...Nothing Like the Sun

4. It takes a Nation of Millions to Hold Us Back

5. Every Breath You Take: The Singles

― James Blount (James Blount), Tuesday, 19 November 2002 05:10 (twenty-two years ago)

Do it jess, make us fall in love with you all over again.

Jess revival in 2003!

― Nicole (Nicole), Tuesday, 19 November 2002 05:10 (twenty-two years ago)

james i kiss you.

― jess (dubplatestyle), Tuesday, 19 November 2002 05:11 (twenty-two years ago)

anyway, i was sworn to death by ethiopian leg lock by a certain heavenly listening, chicago resident who shall remain nameless if i posted the list.

― jess (dubplatestyle), Tuesday, 19 November 2002 05:16 (twenty-two years ago)

I just want to say that the little blurb on the Leonard Cohen record (?!?!?!?!?!?) is one of the funniest things I've ever read not written by Gavin of Stylus Magazine fame.

"Yet who else sings lines as piercing as "It's Father's Day and everybody's wounded," or, "Let me be somebody I admire"?"

Hahaha "IT'S FATHER'S DAY AND EVERYBODY'S WOUNDED". God that is fucking deep!

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Tuesday, 19 November 2002 05:16 (twenty-two years ago)

If the #1 record is NOT Daydream Nation by Sonic Youth then Pitchfork will have completely failed in their quest to be as boring as humanly fucking possible.

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Tuesday, 19 November 2002 05:18 (twenty-two years ago)

That's okay, reading The Dream of the Blue Turtles and nearly choking on a glass of water made up for it.

― Nicole (Nicole), Tuesday, 19 November 2002 05:20 (twenty-two years ago)

the absolute BEST is the sting behind the music when he says "dream of the blue turtles" over and over and over in that very dry, soft, serious sting-way.

― jess (dubplatestyle), Tuesday, 19 November 2002 05:21 (twenty-two years ago)

like "come to Butthead"?

― James Blount (James Blount), Tuesday, 19 November 2002 05:22 (twenty-two years ago)

Mr. Krushchev said we will bury you
I don't subscribe to this point of view

― Nicole (Nicole), Tuesday, 19 November 2002 05:22 (twenty-two years ago)

"a certain heavenly listening, chicago resident" - Brian Urlacher?

― James Blount (James Blount), Tuesday, 19 November 2002 05:23 (twenty-two years ago)

I WONDER WHAT NUMBER ONE WILL BE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
?????????????????????????????????????????????
~!@!@#!!@!@!@@!!@!@!@!@#!@!@

― d k (d k), Tuesday, 19 November 2002 05:24 (twenty-two years ago)

also, branford marsalis talking about the shit that sting got for his ALL BLACK BAND. yes, anyone who said that the days of the firebrands of 60s jazz black nationalism were dead never dug on "fields of gold."

― jess (dubplatestyle), Tuesday, 19 November 2002 05:25 (twenty-two years ago)

I can't hate on Branford too much; he did that great solo over the film version of "Fight the Power" and used to play "Black Dog" when he was the bandleader on the Tonight Show. Plus he never laughed at Leno's jokes.

― James Blount (James Blount), Tuesday, 19 November 2002 05:27 (twenty-two years ago)

shit, i forgot that was branford on "ftp".

― jess (dubplatestyle), Tuesday, 19 November 2002 05:29 (twenty-two years ago)

also, he gave the david s ware quartet enough money to release an album with a sub-talvin singh cover.

― jess (dubplatestyle), Tuesday, 19 November 2002 05:30 (twenty-two years ago)

plus "Buckshot Lefonque", oh, wait

― James Blount (James Blount), Tuesday, 19 November 2002 05:31 (twenty-two years ago)

branford
A) rules
B) was in stings band way before 'fields of gold'
C) actually made sting's band sound GOOD

― chaki (chaki), Tuesday, 19 November 2002 05:32 (twenty-two years ago)

(josh has asked me to clarify that he didn't just hand david ware a big sack with a dollar sign on it, but via the record company he was A&R for.)

― jess (dubplatestyle), Tuesday, 19 November 2002 05:33 (twenty-two years ago)

jess I kiss you

― Josh (Josh), Tuesday, 19 November 2002 05:34 (twenty-two years ago)

up next: pitchfork's season at the lincoln jazz center

― jess (dubplatestyle), Tuesday, 19 November 2002 05:35 (twenty-two years ago)

Branford showed a lot of visible contempt and disgust for Leno, which was cool.

Why he didn't show a similar lack of enthusiasm for the poet in the red leather thong, the world may never know...

― Nicole (Nicole), Tuesday, 19 November 2002 05:35 (twenty-two years ago)

"top 100 lefty white guys playing jittery new wave reggae of the 80s"

― jess (dubplatestyle), Tuesday, 19 November 2002 05:37 (twenty-two years ago)

Plus: Branford played on Shanice's "I Love Your Smile"

― James Blount (James Blount), Tuesday, 19 November 2002 05:37 (twenty-two years ago)

my contempt grows ever outward like ripples in a tide pool.

― jess (dubplatestyle), Tuesday, 19 November 2002 05:38 (twenty-two years ago)

But anyway...GHOST IN THE MACHINE OVER DIRTY MIND?!!!

― James Blount (James Blount), Tuesday, 19 November 2002 05:39 (twenty-two years ago)

When is Ethan going to be here to talk about how there are as MANY Police (JESUS!), Meat Puppets (WTF?), Mekons (GOOD LORD) and ELVIS COSTELLO (KILL ME NOW) records as there are HIP HOP records on this LIST? WHERE ARE YOU ETHAN?

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Tuesday, 19 November 2002 05:42 (twenty-two years ago)

This is what the pitchfork top album award statuettes will look like.

― Nicole (Nicole), Tuesday, 19 November 2002 05:45 (twenty-two years ago)

An error page?

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Tuesday, 19 November 2002 05:45 (twenty-two years ago)

sam chennault is ethan with the lowjack turned on so schrieber can reign him in when necessary.

― jess (dubplatestyle), Tuesday, 19 November 2002 05:46 (twenty-two years ago)

It's all these browser conflicts, innit?

― Nicole (Nicole), Tuesday, 19 November 2002 05:48 (twenty-two years ago)

I didn't tell you the top five, Jess! I only guided you to guess the #1, which I think anyone who's ever read Pitchfork should be able to get right in two to five tries.

― nabisco (nabisco), Tuesday, 19 November 2002 05:54 (twenty-two years ago)

IN THAT CASE:

#5 - Public Enemy - It Takes White Boys To Keep Us In Print
#4 - Pixies - Papa Ooh Mau Mau
#3 - Sonic Youth - Sister
#2 - Pixies - Doolittle
#1 - Sting - Dream of the Blue Turtles

― jess (dubplatestyle), Tuesday, 19 November 2002 05:58 (twenty-two years ago)

What?!?!? No Phil Collins?!?!

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Tuesday, 19 November 2002 06:01 (twenty-two years ago)

#6 - Mike And The Mechanics

― jess (dubplatestyle), Tuesday, 19 November 2002 06:01 (twenty-two years ago)

And where is DIRE STRAITS dammit?!?!

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Tuesday, 19 November 2002 06:02 (twenty-two years ago)

#7 - V/A - UHF o.s.t.

― jess (dubplatestyle), Tuesday, 19 November 2002 06:03 (twenty-two years ago)

Repo Man soundtrack in the hizzouse!

― Jody Beth Rosen (Jody Beth Rosen), Tuesday, 19 November 2002 06:05 (twenty-two years ago)

#8 Jandek - The Beginning

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Tuesday, 19 November 2002 06:05 (twenty-two years ago)

#9 Whitney Houston - Whitney Houston

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Tuesday, 19 November 2002 06:07 (twenty-two years ago)

#8 - token native tongues record

― jess (dubplatestyle), Tuesday, 19 November 2002 06:07 (twenty-two years ago)

#11 - derek bailey - aida

― jess (dubplatestyle), Tuesday, 19 November 2002 06:07 (twenty-two years ago)

Skipping 180 messages at this point... Click here if you want to load them all.

ooooh i love you too jb you wanna hook up sometime this week

― s trife (simon_tr), Wednesday, 20 November 2002 05:00 (twenty-two years ago)

no im 4real but like email me cuz im going out now

― s trife (simon_tr), Wednesday, 20 November 2002 05:02 (twenty-two years ago)

Oh-kay, so I just gotta ask the OBVIOUS fucking question: IF that Leonard Cohen quote was all about intonation then what fucking difference did the lyrics make? Why even bother quoting them? Did someone else sing the lines "It's Father's Day and everybody's wounded" or "Let me be somebod I admire" and DID they not sound as "piercing" when they sang them? Don't play freshman English semantics with me, Chris. If I misinterpreted the reviewer's original intent (and I'm not so sure I did, but I offer it as a possiblity) then I did so because he so generously left himself open to such misinterpretation.

As for the rest of your critique, Chris, hahaha well we can't all be Jess now can we? I'll keep doing what I do (being amused by the endless amount of hysterically bad music criticism which is available for FREE on the world wide web and making snide comments about said criticism) and you can keep doing what you do (writing that criticism and being annoyed by assholes like ME who just don't understand). Okay, maaaaan.

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Wednesday, 20 November 2002 05:04 (twenty-two years ago)

todd: to be honest I've seen worse lists than Pitchfork's *ducks*

trife: where, when?

― James Blount (James Blount), Wednesday, 20 November 2002 05:08 (twenty-two years ago)

'Top Ten' what? It's all methodology. If you want 'favorites,' just browse through all the threads that have cropped up here on ILM in the past few days. 'Best' involves coming up with criteria: quality, quantity, popularity, past knowledge, forward vision, influence, etc. and those are made problematic by their interrelations: an album full of dance music, to generalize, has a slightly different set of goals than a jazz or metal album.

To toss one into the ring: I'd definitely say "Thriller" matches all of the stuff above.

― Dare, Wednesday, 20 November 2002 05:09 (twenty-two years ago)

Alex, a more general reason for including particular song lyrics (or other succint descriptors) is that they 'strike a chord' -- if you're familiar with the part in question, it suddenly replays itself in your mind. It's an extra-textual effect ... agreeing with the claim is optional, but with the quote (a sample), you've got it cued right up in resident memory.

― Dare, Wednesday, 20 November 2002 05:14 (twenty-two years ago)

But what if you haven't heard the song? "It's Father's Day and everybody's wounded" is a pretty meaningless line outside of the context of "First We Take Manhattan" (which, as far as I can tell, is about the fantasies of an aging ex-revolutionary). And how does one get a sense of the song based upon one odd, not-particularly-quoteworthy lyric and no explanation?

― Jody Beth Rosen (Jody Beth Rosen), Wednesday, 20 November 2002 05:24 (twenty-two years ago)

* "Leonard Cohen's inflections have a way of working wonders on you, and his lyrics were tight."

* "Leonard Cohen's inflections have a way of working wonders on you, as with the trembling 'nothing like banging your mom in the backseat ... '"

― Dare, Wednesday, 20 November 2002 05:28 (twenty-two years ago)

Haha well the quotes he chose inspired me to laugh hysterically, Chris. They did not cause me ponder how "piercing" they sounded the last time I heard that particular album (which was a long time ago, haha probably when I was a freshman in college). Maybe he should have picked other one if he didn't want to provoke giggles, eh? Unless he wanted me to remember how Cohen's voice made such ridiculous lyrics sound um well jeez like fucking ridiculous lyrics sung by a guy who apparently gargles gravel. In which case, I guess he succeeded, but it doesn't make it any less amusing.

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Wednesday, 20 November 2002 05:35 (twenty-two years ago)

You make Gottsching sound really good, Mark.

I was listening to that Boredoms album last night.

(Every record ever is better than I'm Your Man BTW.)

― sundar subramanian (sundar), Wednesday, 20 November 2002 05:49 (twenty-two years ago)

"his lyrics were tight"

Didn't you say that the LYRICS were largely unimportant and this quote was all about INTONATION? If * #1 is the REAL quote than why is my original laffing at the "deepness" (read: "tightness") so invalid again?

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Wednesday, 20 November 2002 05:57 (twenty-two years ago)

Where have I been? Avoiding these threads mostly cos I had loads of work to do.

None of the Top 10 albums are bad exactly and many are fabulously good (I haven't actually heard Paul's Boutique all the way through, though). They don't make me want to go and look at Pitchfork's list in any more detail. Ryan has advertisers to please and clearly wanted a few hits; also, list-making is fun - both good reasons for raking over these particular coals. I am delighted though that this list provides further evidence for CONOR'S LAW: "In any given Top 10 poll, the No.9 entry will be the token one."

― Tom (Groke), Wednesday, 20 November 2002 09:39 (twenty-two years ago)

Pitchfor in "not indie enough" shockah.

― Sterling Clover (s_clover), Wednesday, 20 November 2002 20:37 (twenty-two years ago)

Yeah, but look at all the metal dudes. How many are jel pseudonyms?

― bnw (bnw), Wednesday, 20 November 2002 20:47 (twenty-two years ago)

or siegbran's?

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Wednesday, 20 November 2002 21:51 (twenty-two years ago)

My favorite letter was the one that started with "You guys ever heard of Peter Gabriel?"

― Nicole (Nicole), Wednesday, 20 November 2002 22:01 (twenty-two years ago)

I liked that one too.

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Wednesday, 20 November 2002 22:04 (twenty-two years ago)

I always thought of Leonard Cohen's lyrics as a little funny -- they're funny & serious at the same time. I love the lines cited & they make me laugh. I thought that was the "right" way to hear Leonard Cohen!

― Mark (MarkR), Thursday, 21 November 2002 00:03 (twenty-two years ago)

The full quote: "You guys ever heard of Peter Gabriel? He was pretty popular in the '80s and made four great albums...That's where Paul Simon got the idea to steal from African musicians."

yeah! that's telling them! "my favorite musician stole from African musicians first!" show 'em whatcha got!

― M Matos (M Matos), Thursday, 21 November 2002 00:07 (twenty-two years ago)

"WHAT ABOUT 13 MOTHERFUCKING SONGS????!!!!!!!!!?????!!!!"

Since when do Fugazi fans type like Dew-addled Bizkitites?

― Nate Patrin (Nate Patrin), Thursday, 21 November 2002 00:28 (twenty-two years ago)

A few letters down:

"Anyways, great list! I'm glad you guys are man/woman enough to risk the mockery of the (annoying) hardcore punker set and recognize that Thriller and Purple Rain are both insanely good albums!"

B-B-B-BUT 13 MOTHERFUCKING SONGS, DUDE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

― Nate Patrin (Nate Patrin), Thursday, 21 November 2002 00:30 (twenty-two years ago)

Maybe cuz Bizkit are Dew-addled Fugazi-ites?

Also, 13 songs is so good that it's absence almost made me write to them in all caps. 'cept I don't give a shit.

― Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Thursday, 21 November 2002 00:45 (twenty-two years ago)

every third indie kid at my school quotes pitchfork like scripture, and internalizes the style so i'm already disaffected by this list.

where are the goddamned bad brains records ?

― mike (ro)bott, Thursday, 21 November 2002 04:09 (twenty-two years ago)

I should read these letters, but I fear that will give grist to the mill of my eventual autobiography, Now Let Us Hate.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Thursday, 21 November 2002 06:33 (twenty-two years ago)

Hey that's Pete Bagge's bio!

― James Blount (James Blount), Thursday, 21 November 2002 06:36 (twenty-two years ago)

What a fine man he is, then! And also one of the best pop music crits around, easy.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Thursday, 21 November 2002 17:12 (twenty-two years ago)

three months pass...

Ryan is a jackass, that much I know for sure. Anyone who treats potential writers the way he does is not fit to be running a website.

― Nicole (Nicole), Friday, 7 March 2003 04:10 (twenty-two years ago)

what brought this up?

― jess (dubplatestyle), Friday, 7 March 2003 04:17 (twenty-two years ago)

prime blount.

― g.cannon (gcannon), Friday, 7 March 2003 05:41 (twenty-two years ago)

I never saw this thread before, but I'm thankful for the revival as I got to read that bit about the Peter Gabriel letter! Many laffs ensued.

― Mr. Diamond (diamond), Friday, 7 March 2003 08:18 (twenty-two years ago)

yes this thread is precisely why we need blount back

― jess (dubplatestyle), Friday, 7 March 2003 08:22 (twenty-two years ago)

yeah, I agree, he's one of the posters I really enjoy. plus he's always up at an ungodly hour like me.

― Mr. Diamond (diamond), Friday, 7 March 2003 08:33 (twenty-two years ago)

although i shouldn't underestimate the contributions of alex in sf. and of course that fucker (cough cough)

― jess (dubplatestyle), Friday, 7 March 2003 08:36 (twenty-two years ago)

Oh you mean 'Thatfuckerjessharvell'? Yeah he's a fave poster too.

― Mr. Diamond (diamond), Friday, 7 March 2003 08:45 (twenty-two years ago)

what brought this up?

I just heard a horror story yesterday, and I wanted to warn writers out there not to waste their time writing for a publication that would treat people so poorly.

― Nicole (Nicole), Friday, 7 March 2003 13:22 (twenty-two years ago)

What was the horror story?

― Lord Custos Epsilon (Lord Custos Epsilon), Friday, 7 March 2003 15:35 (twenty-two years ago)

Dish! Dish!

― jaymc (jaymc), Friday, 7 March 2003 15:38 (twenty-two years ago)

(Nicole, hit me up email-style with the D-I-R-T, yo.)

― Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Friday, 7 March 2003 15:41 (twenty-two years ago)

I don't want to further upset the person who was dealing with the Pitchfork corny indie motherfucker by spilling the details without their permission, but just consider yourselves warned.

― Nicole (Nicole), Friday, 7 March 2003 15:59 (twenty-two years ago)

Did it involve inappropriate use of a teddy bear?

― Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Friday, 7 March 2003 16:01 (twenty-two years ago)

That makes me a sad panda, Dan.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Friday, 7 March 2003 16:16 (twenty-two years ago)

Has this thread turned into Chunklet now?

― nabisco (nabisco), Friday, 7 March 2003 17:01 (twenty-two years ago)

should we do a best albums of the 90s list?

― jess (dubplatestyle), Friday, 7 March 2003 17:06 (twenty-two years ago)

(i'm only doing it if blount comes back tho)

― jess (dubplatestyle), Friday, 7 March 2003 17:06 (twenty-two years ago)

four years pass...

this is my favorite 80s list ever

― strongohulkington, Tuesday, 22 May 2007 13:45 (eighteen years ago)

ten months pass...

PAGING DOMINIQUE LEONE

If your band needs a place to stay in Eugene next Wednesday email me thru here.

― sleeve, Friday, 28 March 2008 02:42 (seventeen years ago)

did Blount ever make Dominique and Ryan their cards?

― Mackro Mackro, Friday, 28 March 2008 04:00 (seventeen years ago)

does dom have a 'band', I thought it was just him?

― akm, Friday, 28 March 2008 04:05 (seventeen years ago)

he's listed as playing with two other people here (i.e playing with him, not on the bill). I actually did a double take at the show listing... "could that be...?" then the bio confirmed it.

― sleeve, Friday, 28 March 2008 14:35 (seventeen years ago)

yes, band is corey fogel (mae shi, gowns, jackie o motherfucker), maryclare brzytwa (fred frith) and curtis mckinney (frith, kevin blechdom)

― Dominique, Friday, 28 March 2008 14:46 (seventeen years ago)

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