what in the name of all that is holy do people mean by "blue-eyed soul"!?

Message Bookmarked

Bookmark Removed

seriously. i keep seeing this phrase and don't know quite what it means. or if its good bad or neither.

― Sterling Clover (s_clover), Tuesday, 19 November 2002 19:59 (twenty-three years ago)

boz scaggs

― mark s (mark s), Tuesday, 19 November 2002 20:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Van Morrison

― Clay, Tuesday, 19 November 2002 20:02 (twenty-three years ago)

White people pretending to be all Motown.

― hstencil, Tuesday, 19 November 2002 20:02 (twenty-three years ago)

Robert Palmer!

btw, a friend of mine invited me to see Boz Scaggs tomorrow! It's some high-ticket benefit with free food and booze! Yes, I'm going!

― Sean (Sean), Tuesday, 19 November 2002 20:04 (twenty-three years ago)

rare earth!! oh wait...

― mark s (mark s), Tuesday, 19 November 2002 20:04 (twenty-three years ago)

longer answers plz. i mean does it just mean "whiteboy trying to sound black"?

― Sterling Clover (s_clover), Tuesday, 19 November 2002 20:07 (twenty-three years ago)

vanessa williams

― gygax!, Tuesday, 19 November 2002 20:11 (twenty-three years ago)

is teena marie blue eyed soul?

justin timberlake?

beddingfield?

xtina? dion? elvis? gene vincent? craig david? usher? britney?

― Sterling Clover (s_clover), Tuesday, 19 November 2002 20:11 (twenty-three years ago)

in the uk in the mid-70s it meant palmer and scaggs and the average white band and early hall and oates, and — maybe — todd rundgren: anyway, white foax doing eg philly style soul or (70s-style) motown, which at the time was not approved of by the mainstream rock papers (rather than stax-atlantic type "authentic" soul)

it wz a sophisticated minority taste, and wz basically a term of approval: apotheosis = possibly young americans, which recast it as an avant garde "rock" move

― mark s (mark s), Tuesday, 19 November 2002 20:12 (twenty-three years ago)

i think initially it meant "white boy ACTUALLY SOUNDING BLACK" (as opposed to eg jagger or plant or joe cocker or — in my opinion — van morrison): it denoted scholarly and deep understanding of an actually happening black music scene (or some such), manifesting as seamless self-negating mimicry

i'm not sure i can see a reason to use it of anyone today, seeing as it has a bunch of fairly dumb assumptions and long-exploded built into it (= "can blue men sing the whites" yada yada)

― mark s (mark s), Tuesday, 19 November 2002 20:17 (twenty-three years ago)

i think it was sort of applied to that shelby lynne record of a few years back (i am...), but perhaps only in the respect that it kind of harkend back to the dusty in memphis sound.

― jq higgins, Tuesday, 19 November 2002 20:20 (twenty-three years ago)

Blue-eyed soul=you are surprised when you find out the singer is white. Dan Hartman - "I Can Dream About You".

― Mark (MarkR), Tuesday, 19 November 2002 20:35 (twenty-three years ago)

Dan Hartman - "I Can Dream About You".

You thought that was sung by anybody OTHER than a white man?

Mark, you're a mystery wrapped in a riddle inside an enigma.

― hstencil, Tuesday, 19 November 2002 20:40 (twenty-three years ago)

blue-eyed soul = white folks making music similar to that of black folks but not in a retarded way

Good examples include Robyn Thicke, Stevie Ray Vaughn & Tom Waits.

Bad examples include Johnny Lang and Eric Crapton.

― nickalicious, Tuesday, 19 November 2002 20:42 (twenty-three years ago)

"blue eyed soul" = "wigga"? Exhibit 1: Eminem

― o. nate (onate), Tuesday, 19 November 2002 20:43 (twenty-three years ago)

Stevie Ray Vaughn, Johnny Lang and Eric Crapton.

No way dude! That's blue-eyed blues!

Tom Waits is blue-eyed Beefheart.

― hstencil, Tuesday, 19 November 2002 20:43 (twenty-three years ago)

ah, but blue-eyed soul is "sophisticated" whereas wigga is just "controversial" at best.

― hstencil, Tuesday, 19 November 2002 20:52 (twenty-three years ago)

sterling, where did you come across it? i haven't seen it for years

i suppose a non-stupid use today wd be phil collins = someone attitudinising white foax get all up themselves pooh-poohing, when black foax are down with him

― mark s (mark s), Tuesday, 19 November 2002 20:53 (twenty-three years ago)

Marcello's been using it lately & then I saw it somewhere else too and the capper was when Matos' piece in the latest voice on Beddingfield used it in ref. to George Michael. The phrase has stuck with me because I never understood the connection between eyes and soul. I think Tom or someone used it about Roxy Music recently too.

― Sterling Clover (s_clover), Tuesday, 19 November 2002 20:57 (twenty-three years ago)

Except of course that eyes are windows into the soul.

― Sterling Clover (s_clover), Tuesday, 19 November 2002 20:58 (twenty-three years ago)

ah, but blue-eyed soul is "sophisticated" whereas wigga is just "controversial" at best

You mean the term, or the style?

― o. nate (onate), Tuesday, 19 November 2002 20:58 (twenty-three years ago)

Ah, what the hell, why not both?

― hstencil, Tuesday, 19 November 2002 21:00 (twenty-three years ago)

blue-eyed soul:
think stevie winwood, when he was stevie. hall + oates. i've heard that thicke may work as well, but i haven't yet *heard* thicke.

don't think wigga, "pretty fly for a white guy", etc.

think fitting in with the sound, not trying to wrap yourself in the culture. there were plenty of r+b 'wiggas', too, but i've usually seen the term blue-eyed soul used in a complimentary way.

― bucky wunderlick (bucky), Tuesday, 19 November 2002 21:03 (twenty-three years ago)

cf the final paras of nelson george's the death of rhythm and blues, where he gives leroi jones's argt about the "dilution" of jazz into swing an unexpected twist, and bigs up phil collins, george michael and paul young, as having a "deeper understanding and (dare I say?) love for the currents in black-music history" than "their black contemporaries".

― mark s (mark s), Tuesday, 19 November 2002 21:04 (twenty-three years ago)

Re Dan Hartman -- when I first heard it I thought the guys onstage performing it in "Streets of Fire" sang it. Am I the only one?

― Mark (MarkR), Tuesday, 19 November 2002 21:10 (twenty-three years ago)

yeah, everybody thought that. it was the video.

― Fritz Wollner (Fritz), Tuesday, 19 November 2002 21:20 (twenty-three years ago)

Dan Hartman used to come into the organic market I worked in for a while back in CT (this was like 10 years ago). He would buy 25 lb. bags of carrots. He was also in the glammed-up version of the Edgar Winter Band (wrote and sang "Free Ride").

― Sean (Sean), Tuesday, 19 November 2002 21:25 (twenty-three years ago)

I only know the song from the radio, sorry. Sounds fuckin' "white" to me.

― hstencil, Tuesday, 19 November 2002 21:27 (twenty-three years ago)

actually that's an interesting point: songs that sounded "black" when they came out which now sound "white"? kinda like how forgeries of paintings are much more obvious 50 years later than they were at the time?

― mark s (mark s), Tuesday, 19 November 2002 21:30 (twenty-three years ago)

http://www.rickastley.co.uk/images/images/promo/m.jpg

― dan (dan), Tuesday, 19 November 2002 21:53 (twenty-three years ago)

Personal to Michael Daddino: do you see???

― Sean (Sean), Tuesday, 19 November 2002 21:57 (twenty-three years ago)

The Blow Monkeys?

― Andrew L (Andrew L), Tuesday, 19 November 2002 22:14 (twenty-three years ago)

yeah, everybody thought that. it was the video.

Didn't they make another video with him 'starring' because of this controversy?

― Vic Funk, Tuesday, 19 November 2002 22:17 (twenty-three years ago)

ue-Eyed Soul
Blue-eyed soul refers to soul and R&B music performed and sung by white musicians. The term first came into play during the mid-'60s, when acts like the Righteous Brothers had hits with soulful songs like "You Lost That Loving Feeling." Throughout the late '60s, blue-eyed soul thrived, as acts like the Rascals, the Boxtops, Mitch Ryder, Tony Joe White, and Roy Head had a series of hits. During the '70s, blue-eyed soul continued to be successful, as acts like Hall & Oates, Robert Palmer, Average White Band, Boz Scaggs, and David Bowie updated the blue-eyed soul formula. from: http://www.jahsonic.com/WhiteMusic.html

― Jan Geerinck, Tuesday, 19 November 2002 22:20 (twenty-three years ago)

i wz gunna mention alex chilton!! but then i remembered i hate him for reasons probably unrelated to his music

― mark s (mark s), Tuesday, 19 November 2002 22:22 (twenty-three years ago)

i still think we shd take bowie's "updating" (?) to signal the end of the term's usefulness

― mark s (mark s), Tuesday, 19 November 2002 22:24 (twenty-three years ago)

what are those reasons for chilton hate?

(also is blue-eyed soul only a guy thing?)

― Sterling Clover (s_clover), Tuesday, 19 November 2002 22:25 (twenty-three years ago)

when i wz at nme there wz a guy there who was a julian cope and alex chilton nutcase obsessive to the point of putting me off both for life (he wz from nz — tho poss. not dunedin) and the WORST SUB EDITOR I HAVE EVER ENCOUNTERED

actually he wz a v.nice fellow, b-b-but

― mark s (mark s), Tuesday, 19 November 2002 22:34 (twenty-three years ago)

Just as it was obvious to me that 'Roadblock' was not an obscure American 'rare groove' import, so Rick Astley didn't sound black to me when I first heard 'Never Gonna Give You Up'. His sounded a lot like Colonel Abrams and he sounded good but he still sounded white. A lot of Pete Waterman's self-publicity seems to have been accepted as fact.

Mark can you think of any examples that might support your theory?

― David (David), Wednesday, 20 November 2002 00:12 (twenty-three years ago)

haha not really, i wz hoping someone else would

― mark s (mark s), Wednesday, 20 November 2002 00:20 (twenty-three years ago)

Re 'blue eyed soul' - I think Mark has nailed it in that it was once 'good' ie the lovingly crafted immersion in the black style, but is now 'bad' because it refers to white artists producing soundalikes of outmoded genres of black music. And of course the term 'soul' is no longer used as a name for current black American pop so that adds to the obsolescence of the phrase.

― David (David), Wednesday, 20 November 2002 00:28 (twenty-three years ago)

(he wz from nz — tho poss. not dunedin) and the WORST SUB EDITOR I HAVE EVER ENCOUNTERED

Not David Swift by any chance? If it was, he was from Christchurch, if I remember correctly - and wasn't he also in the Razorcuts???

― Bill E (bill_e), Wednesday, 20 November 2002 00:57 (twenty-three years ago)

haha my lips r sealed

― mark s (mark s), Wednesday, 20 November 2002 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

I'll take that as a yes, then! You were luckily spared a visit by myself & colleague to the NME offices in 1987 - he vaguely knew Mr Swift & was forever threatening to visit him at work.

― Bill E (bill_e), Wednesday, 20 November 2002 02:33 (twenty-three years ago)

The album before You've Lost That Lovin' Feelin', 1964:

http://freespace.virgin.net/p.richmond/albums/rbal02.jpg

― Curt (cgould), Wednesday, 20 November 2002 03:18 (twenty-three years ago)

DARYL HALL

― bahtology, Wednesday, 20 November 2002 03:56 (twenty-three years ago)

MICHAEL HUTCHENCE!!

― Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Wednesday, 20 November 2002 04:09 (twenty-three years ago)

One of the great soul artistes from its great days, who was white: Eddie Hinton. A much less famous example is Jerry Woodward.

― Martin Skidmore (Martin Skidmore), Friday, 22 November 2002 21:14 (twenty-three years ago)

mitch ryder & the detroit wheels & tony joe white i like, eddie hinton is hit & miss... joe south is good too

― Fritz Wollner (Fritz), Saturday, 23 November 2002 02:47 (twenty-three years ago)

"Soul" and "R&B" must be some of the most misused words evah!

How much has Destiny's Child to do with soul or blues?

― man, Saturday, 23 November 2002 02:51 (twenty-three years ago)

actually maybe i've just heard the wrong eddie hinton stuff.. what would you reccommend martin?

― Fritz Wollner (Fritz), Saturday, 23 November 2002 03:03 (twenty-three years ago)

I don't have all of Eddie Hinton's albums, Fritz, but there's terrific stuff on all of them. I found his first, the oddly titled Very Extremely Dangerous, in a boot sale for a quid, and it's not his most respected. The title track from Letters From Mississippi may be his best claim to true soul-singing greatness. I don't know Cry And Moan and Very Blue Highway well, and there's a bits & pieces release called Dear Y'All, which I like but is for real fans only. I should also note that his major claim on our historical attention is a more anonymous one, as guitarist in the Muscle Shoals band through most of the '60s, playing with Aretha, Wilson Pickett and loads of other giants.

Spot on with Joe South, too.

― Martin Skidmore (Martin Skidmore), Saturday, 23 November 2002 15:47 (twenty-three years ago)

TOP MEME AHOY!!

haha i knew i got "very extremely" from somewhere, but from eddie hinton!!

― mark s (mark s), Saturday, 23 November 2002 15:53 (twenty-three years ago)

thanks martin!

― Fritz Wollner (Fritz), Saturday, 23 November 2002 23:56 (twenty-three years ago)

four years pass...

vanessa williams

-- gygax!, Tuesday, November 19, 2002 3:11 PM (4 years ago)

lol

― The Brainwasher, Sunday, 6 May 2007 01:13 (eighteen years ago)

This blue-eyed soul is just fabulous.

― Mister Craig, Sunday, 6 May 2007 01:19 (eighteen years ago)

were stevie winwood and van morrison considered blue-eyed soul? back in the 60s, they seemed too fiery to be called blue-eyed soul, which i always thought was a bit on the lush/smooth side.

― QuantumNoise, Sunday, 6 May 2007 01:37 (eighteen years ago)

http://www.tuxjunction.net/amazonart/B000001PI9.01.LZZZZZZZ.jpg

― scott seward, Sunday, 6 May 2007 03:13 (eighteen years ago)

eight years pass...

http://www.guregauza.com/mojo-workin-2016-info-castell/programa/

Mitch Ryder at festival in Spain in March

― curmudgeon, Monday, 29 February 2016 16:42 (ten years ago)

You must be logged in to post. Please either login here, or if you are not registered, you may register here.