"IDM" House vs. "Proper" House

the best thing about the non-superclub end of house music for me in the last few years has been the CONVERGENCE of all these "disparate" scenes...the best mixes have ben about erasing the lines between techno/tech-house/microhouse/electro/blah blah blah. that said, luomo and akufen may get more lipservice from IDM fans because (akufen esp) they SOUND closer to chain reaction/mille plateaux than masters at work. (which is why luomo can make it on a clicks&cuts comp and, say, metro area or moodymann can't.)

You could make the kind of arguments that dancemusic types hate to hear and will send you death threats for, and state that:

Theo Parrish and Moodymann are African Americans,
Akufen and Vladislav Delay are Caucasian Europeans.

Of course that is pretty trollish. But it bears noting in my book because 75% or more of the time that's a real reason for some people, even if they think it isn't. The word-of-mouth a white guy gets on IDM-L or from reading the Wire is a lot different than what a black clubber in Detroit hears, and that's just the fucking truth.

Of course the most plausible cause is simply that in the music business, fence-sitting is a good way to get ignored. So Detroit/Chicago house producers who try to take a more subtle, 'intelligent' route in their music often end up getting ignored because they're on the wrong label and/or from the wrong city.

Moodymann & Theo Parrish would probably get tons more attention if they just moved to Ann Arbor and released exclusively on Planet E.

i'd actually say that their music is more out there than akufen et al. esp. mr. parrish who uses the weirdest eq'ing i've ever heard.

i hate the term idm - i don't think microhouse really fits under this banner - a lot of it is really stoopid and aimed squarely for the dancefloor. also, if you ask a lot of these artists who they respect, thet'll tell you that it is the very same dudes who you say don't get any praise.

the african-american/caucasian-european argument goes back to the simon reynolds/kirk degi*rgio flamewar from earlier this month. having come to like house music through just those continuities (soul-->disco-->house) that simon wishes to de-emphasize, i kind of see kirk's point (not that i'm nearly so much of a purist, though).

i only started listening to the clicks&cuts post-aphex school of IDM after hearing the luomo album, which was disco enough for my tom moulton-worshipping soul. so my progression continued from "proper" house (MAW, etc.) --> microhouse (luomo & MRI, initially) --> autechre-ish IDM (which i still don't like nearly as much as the stuff with a groove).

i suspect many wire readers are moving in the opposite direction, unless they're too busy "amplify[ing] the sense of upheaval and schism" (s.reynolds) to spot a trend in their changing tastes.

(and yes, moodymann is criminally underrated.)

I love the Boredoms but I hardly knew what Melt Banana even sounded like until I heard their album over the PA prior to a Shellac show and asked the soundman what it was.

That's just how information flows sometimes. And to ignore the fact that ethnic AND geographical boundaries don't play a part strikes me as silly.

perhaps it doesn't lend itself to interesting writing (anymore)?
or perhaps it doesn't fit in to the current narrative of dance music.
or maybe it just doesn't sound modern to younger ears (that one's a shot in the dark - I'm 29)?

I think a lot of people avoid Masters at Work productions for the simple fact that most of 'em're shit.

(Side question: how many of you flipped through the recent issue of XLR8R, noticed that profile on the Detroit Beatdown comp, and were surprised to learn that Detroit has a house scene?)

ok...

I think a lot of Wire-y types would have their heads blown off by the more "out there"/non-traditional Moodymann ("Shades of Jae," etc) and Parrish tracks ("Summertime Is Here," etc).

Boy George (from the sleevenotes in the Dare reissue): "The Human League were a revolution in pop and without groups like them and Kraftwerk and Cabaret Voltaire, there would be no dance music today."

And then, on the other side, you have purists who throw terms like "proper" (valid) and "soulful" (worthwhile) around with no regard for how nauseating they've become. You also have DJs within what might be called the "proper house" scene who preach about educating people with their sets ("This is a set of classics!!!"), yet they'd much rather eat their own puke than divulge what they play.

that argument is bollocks. i love all three of those groups but even if they'd never have existed, someone else would have come up with something similar at some point.

i too also hate it when dj's claim their music is proper and soulful - sanctimonious twats. what is soul? sometimes merzbow touches my soul. does that make him any less soulful than al green who doesn't touch my soul? it's all sooooo subjective.

also, dj's who won't reveal what they play should be struck off. unless they made the music themselves, they have no right to keep it to themselves. are they so insecure that they think if someone else starts playing it, they're going to lose their identity? i always play and tel,l and often hear other djs playing records i know i discovered. i get a buzz from that.

Two words: Mille Plateux. That shit gets coverage everywhere no matter what style it is.

In terms of White European tech-house vs Black American tech-house, I'd say the coverage is if anything weighted in favour of the latter. Outside of ILM and the writings of people who frequent it I've still yet to see any major coverage of Kompakt, Perlon etc. whereas Moodyman, Norma Jean Bell and definitely Masters at Work get comparatively *heaps* of hype from the dance press (at least over here). This is only as it should be - the US tech-house scene is much better established, so it makes sense that awareness levels are higher. As for people like Theo Parrish and Todd Edwards, it might help if they released regular and not impossible-to-find albums. Certainly those Peacefrog comps - which are easy to find, relatively - get a lot more attention and sales than any non-Mille Platueax-derived microhouse.

i think both arguments hold validity, but certainly on ilx akufen/luomo crop up more than moodymann or todd edwards or even masters at work(!)

Um, you're on crack. How many dance producers can put out a 4CD retrospective that's good all the way through?

I really like the remix of Luomo's "Melt" that's up on gabba.net. This is the first track of theirs I've heard that's justified the hype.

Love and Happiness
The Nervous Track
I Can't Get No Sleep
When You Touch Me
The Bomb
To Be in Love
Work
Blood Vibes
Ran Kan Kan
What a Sensation
Bounce
Moonshine
Buddy X
Runaway
I Am the Black Gold of the Sun
Pienso En Ti
Makin' a Livin'
Sweet Tears
You Can Do It (Baby)
Deep Inside
Only Love Can Break Your Heart
Souffle H
Troubled Girl
Voices in My Mind
Mind Fluid
MAW Expensive
Everybody, Be Somebody
Sindae
Dance to the Rhythm

and Ben, that would be an 8 disc(!) retrospective that's almost good all the way through.

and yeah, would somebody grab Todd Edwards and slap him around a bit so that he changes up that maniacal beat?

I'm still wondering about people who listen to Kompakt, but not Naked. Perhaps I'm making assumptions based on the fact that no one writes about Naked Music around here.

we do @ www.kindamuzik.net/beats

eg
http://www.kindamuzik.net/article.shtml?id=1589

I'd much rather hear a mediocre Todd Edwards track than anything MAW's done the last couple years. Both Edwards and MAW have their tics/tricks; I reckon it all depends on which tics/tricks you prefer.

I guess I'm just asking us to assume that Kompakt and Naked (in general and using them somewhat generically) having similar BPMs and being "house" might invite comparison (especially re: their audiences). And so wondering if there's just less to talk about re: Naked or MaW (rather than a better/worse assertion)? Or if there's something wrong with them (i.e. too smooth, too jazzy, too bourgie, not forward thinking enough?).

But I also think MAW have fallen off the last few years. The old "proper album" curse hit with the Nuyorican Soul stuff.

With Kompakt (who as Andy are working in a totally different area) I get the sense of ideas being incomplete, unexhausted, going places, trying new things - listen to the four 'Total' comps back to back and it sounds like an unfolding/expanding narrative. There's a sense of excitement and unexpectedness that you just don't get from a project as traditionalist as Naked Music no matter how "perfect" it sounds.

Hmmm maybe the Peacefrog (Moodyman, Theo Parrish etc.) aesthetic is sort of perfectly poised between these two poles?

I don't think it's even fair to lump Parrish and Moodymann together. Theo Parrish works minimalism in the classic sense: simple structures which move in and out of phase with each other. For example, his track "JB's Edit" is a james brown sample ("wait a minute!"), a two-second guitar lick and a short drum loop. These three bits loop and flange around each other for five minutes, exploring various permutations of EQing, filtering, etc. Akufen vs. Terry Riley?

Moodymann has a few songs in this vein but I think he concentrates much more on these deep, deep drones in his music. I think the ultimate Moodymann track is his remix on Ferox (End of the Road by Russ Gabriel?). The track starts with a single gorgeous piano chord that takes about five seconds to decay. This chord is repeated again and again over a kick/hi-hat garage beat. Lots of other Moodymann tracks use these warm, hissy, fuzzed-out samples which gradually taper off into the mix. Basic Channel via Detroit?

In other words, I disagree with the (original) question entirely because it's contrasting a "coherent" "style" (kompakt vs. perlon vs. bpitch) with guys who are practically styles unto themselves. Besides, the producers mentioned in this thread get tons of praise - if you haven't seen coverage of TP/KDJ it's because they haven't put anything out. Norma Jean and Swayzak, on the other hand, both made Spin magazine.

2xCD80 'portable' Masters at Work go!

disc1

Hardrive - Sindae (Kenlou Dub)
Untouchables - Dance to the Rhythm
Saint Etienne - Only Love Can Break Your Heart (Masters at Work dub - edit)
Kenlou - Moonshine
Neneh Cherry - Buddy X (Masters at Work 12" mix)
Masters at Work feat. India - I Can't Get No Sleep (Kenlou 12")
Hardrive - Deep Inside (original vers.)
Tito Puente - Ran Kan Kan (12" Club mix)
Tito Puente - Para Los Rumberos (Little Louie Vega & Kenny Dope Gonzalez Mix)
River Ocean feat. India - Love & Happiness (Yemaya y Ochun)
Mondo Grosso - Souffles H (King Street Club Mix)
Kenlou 2 - The Bounce

(81:20 - early years - vaguely chronological - hott!)

disc2

Nuyorican Soul - The Nervous Track (Ballsy mix)
Nuyorican Soul - Mind Fluid
Kenlou 3 - What a Sensation
Nuyorican Soul feat. India - Runaway
Nuyorican Soul feat. Jocelyn Brown - It's Alright, I Feel It
Nuyorican Soul feat. George Benson - You Can Do It Baby
Masters at Work - MAW Expensive (A Tribute to Fela)
Masters at Work feat. Luis Salinas - Pienso En Ti (I Think of You) (album edit)
Masters at Work feat. India - To Be in Love

(78:25 - later years including the essential Nuyorican Soul stuff - should probably try to squeeze in an edit of "Work")

they missed a trick by not just sticking a solid 4/4 under 'You Can Do It Baby'