Michael Jackson's and Prince's 91 turn to "urban" sounds (R&B, rap, new jack swing...) : Dangerous Vs Diamonds and Pearls

I listened to Bad a lot as a kid, but Dangerous was just so damn long, I just didn't have the attention for 77 minutes of material, much of it not up to standard, didn't realise it at the time but this was where I got off the MJ bus.

Dangerous w/out the slightest hesitation, and it's the MJ album I've heard most often in the last decade.

D&P includes the first travesties of Prince's career. Good to great songs: "Money Don't Matter 2 Nite," "Walk Don't Walk," "Willing and Able," "Cream."

"Dangerous" is terrible all round, at least the singles on "Diamonds & Pearls" are good

"Who Is It" by itself is powerful enough to make D&P look like a Potemkin village of a pop/R&B crossover.

eheh.
For a veeeeery long time Dangerous didn't click with me but over the last few years I've listened to it more attentively and now it's also the MJ album I go back to the most (reading the Susan Fast 33 1/3 book also helped to recontextualize it).
I don't love it and still think it lacks GREAT songs compared to his previous work (although I also never loved Bad either) but "Who is It" is defnitily one.

Actually, D&P has more and better good/great songs imo.
Still, I prefer Dangerous.

The rap parts on both albums are bad though : no winner there !

"Jughead," "Push," "Gett Off," anything with Tony M -- gross gross

I kinda like the rappy bits. Is it Tony M rapping on 'My Name Is Prince'? Better than the rap on 'Black or White'?

Jam - Odd way to start with this low-key, um, jam, actually not bad, but much too long
Why You Wanna Trip On Me - This one is good, but also too long
In The Closet - Also good, also too long, why is Princess Stephanie of Monaco here?
She Drives Me Wild - Maybe the best thing on here, and not too long for once
Remember The Time - Well put-together, but I just don't care for it
Can't Let Her Get Away - No, this is the best track, Teddy Riley on fire here
Heal The World - Just fucking horrible, and 6 and a half minutes of it!
Black or White - Yeah have to admit this is still good, it was such an event for me when the video was released.
Who Is It - I think I like it, very odd, in a good way I think?
Give In To Me - MJ's hair metal moment, falls flat, goes on way too long, again, think he just doesn't get the dynamics of the genre
Will You Be There - AKA We Are The World Part II, wildly messianic, and nearly 8 minutes?! hard pass
Keep The Faith - Awful motivational dregs, 6 minutes long
Gone Too Soon - If you like mawkish ballads with tasteful cabaret keyboards then guess this is for you
Dangerous - ...and back to NJS, only this is the worst example here, 7 minutes long, sounds like an unnecessary 12" remix

Gett Off is better than anything on Dangerous

"Heal the World" vs "Diamonds and Pearls" is admittedly choosing between defenestration vs disembowelment

Nobody died in the Third Defenestration of Prague so I'd probably choose that

Heal the Worm is only good because you can call it that and it makes it mildly amusing. Diamonds and Pearls has a nice hook and isn't as cloying

"Black or White" : I've always found this Rolling Stonesy track terrible (also the video).
and "Remember The Time" : yeah, I get why many people consider it's among his best tracks... but it just doesn't do it for me.

Actually, thinking about it, I only really like 2 of the 9 singles from Dangerous.

NINE singles... Blimey

yeah, I just realized that too and was about to emphasise it but then I found out there were also 9 from Bad (and 7 but out of 9 tracks from Thriller) !

Dangerous sounded fantastic to me whilst driving around in my car the other week. D&P not nearly as consistent imo

Dangerous is the more compelling work.

At the time, I reckoned I had never heard a cornier song by anyone than "Diamonds and Pearls," tho "Black or White" felt pretty close.

I love his screamy vocal on My Name Is Prince, it's like this rage of pure ego.

I prefer Dangerous tbh. Prince was better with the Revolution, even if NPG as a collective had more chops

Tho i did like most of Prince's 90s output

I love Prince forever and consider him to be my favorite musician.

The answer to this is so clearly and obviously Dangerous that I'm amused this is a poll.

I've been wtf-ing since this morning'g coffee.

Come, The Gold Experience, especially Emancipation >>>>>>>>> D&P and MJ's subsequent work. Hell, even most of Love Symbol is.

What DJP said.

Come rules

uh

Come regulations

This is the problem with that album title.

11 minute opening track ftw.

Never got why this was panned other than it confused people by being under the Prince name while he was also recording as the symbol.

I remember "Letitgo" getting radio play

Gold Experience has some cringe worthy stuff too. Like "Now". I guess "Pussy Control" is cool for the lyrics but it's clumsy.

But "Gold" is great.

"I Hate U" is my favorite post-80s Prince song, I think.

"Shy" is also great, as are "The Human Body" and "Black Sweat"

"The Human Body" and "Sleep Around" are excellent dance-floor fillers.

I love Prince forever and consider him to be my favorite musician.

The answer to this is so clearly and obviously Dangerous that I'm amused this is a poll.

― brigadier pudding (DJP), Friday, November 15, 2019 11:47 AM (yesterday) bookmarkflaglink

Co-sign. I haven't spun Diamonds and Pearls since high school, though I'll still cue up "Walk Don't Walk" now and then.

I really really hated “Diamonds and Pearls” (the song) when it came out.“Love is meant for two.” Oh shut the fuck up, Prince. Is this the album with “7” on it? That’s a good one.

“Black or White” is abominable.

dangerous is too long but its great tracks are great enough to make up for it

i found "heal the world" quite moving but i was a v young child

Is this the album with “7” on it? That’s a good one.

No, the follow-up, Love Symbol, which is much better.

Okay, if the genius website is to be believed the album version of “Diamonds and Pearls” has a rap verse. “D to the I to the A” etc. Yikes. I definitely need to do a deep dive into Prince’s discography one of these days. I tried a couple of his early records and gave up. The self-titled LP was pretty good, though.

That isn't a rap verse

Good ol’ Mr. Snrub

I tried a couple of his early records and gave up

what the

Maybe he was listening to 94 East

And For You isn't his strongest work

No matter what their individual attributes (or flaws), I don’t think it’s possible to have an opinion on Prince based solely on his first four albums.

Ahah that Mr. Snrub post.
I've been listening to D&P over the weekend and it's actually better than I remembered.
Beside the hits there are some typical Prince heavy funk jams, a typical slow jam. It's not that far from his previous stuff.
Unfortunately there's A LOT of Tony M who ruins tracks that would have been OK otherwise.

As for Dangerous, basically, for me the following tracklist would have made a very good album (including tracks I don't love but that are good enough) :

Jam
Why You Wanna Trip On Me
In The Closet
She Drives Me Wild
Remember The Time
Can't Let Her Get Away
Who Is It
Will You Be There (the single version w/o the Beethoven part)

8 songs, around 40min of funky/sexy/paranoid tracks(+ a gospel final).

Dangerous is solid through track 10.

otm

even Heal The World?

over the years I've come to see Dangerous as sort of a bloated masterpiece, I could almost be convinced its his best album though lol @ it being so fucking long

Automatic thread bump. This poll's results are now in.

the pearls have it.
wonder how this might've faired in the pre-MJ-is-cancelled era or even before prince died.

"I Hate U" is my favorite post-80s Prince song, I think.

It's absolute genius.

Dangerous is dreadful, right down to the horrible rococo cover art. Black Or White is like a six-year-old's idea of a rock song.

I suspect an American vs Brit divide

Dangerous shits all over this album, and i am a huge Prince stan

Mj has been, in my mind, a paedophile since around the time dangerous came out. I voted how I voted because I dont like that album

Wait WTF

I'm one of those weirdos who actually likes Diamonds and Pearls. I've been convinced MJ was a pedo for at least a decade. These results are still bullshit.

I feel like everyone who voted for D&P forgot what "Jughead" sounds like

nah, it's just that Dangerous is THAT BAD

Except... it isn't

It does have filler but the highs are pretty damn high

I feel like everyone who voted for D&P forgot what "Jughead" sounds like

― brigadier pudding (DJP),

And "Push." And "Live 4 Love."

aw cmon, "thunder" "strollin" "Get off" "Insatiable" and "willing and able" are all tops and i could listen to "money don't matter" all day
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AmGVAu9lk6I

I EVEN LIKE "JUGHEAD." Dangerous is still a way better record. It's improved with age, too.

Love Symbol > Dangerous > Diamonds & Pearls

I dunno if I'm ever gonna listen Michael Jackson again, but objectively speaking Dangerous is better than D&P, though obviously both are very uneven. "Cream" is one of Prince's best singles, but so is "Who Is It" with MJ, and the other good songs on Dangerous are just of higher caliber than the other good songs on D&P.

Tuomas completely otm

I dunno if I'm ever gonna listen Michael Jackson again

I do.

yeah, except that part

We never polled Diamonds And Pearls? Seems unlikely but..

I get how D&P could beat Dangerous in many respects, but it's the wrong outcome

I stand by everything I originally wrote on this thread

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mJWVUrLAjyA

WHOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO ISSSSSS IT

IS IT A FRIEND OF MIIIIIIIIIIIINE

This is freakin’ great

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x2M2FnDdB1I

Love that 'Daddy Pop' 12" mix, esp the vocal ride-out

That part when Prince slides into the crowd at the end of the Arsenio Hall appearance is the greatest moment of either campaign

the title track to "diamonds and pearls" is so lame, maybe his worst song?

i've always liked it! *shrug*

the title track to "diamonds and pearls" is so lame, maybe his worst song?

― Blues Guitar Solo Heatmap (Free Download) (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Monday, October 23, 2023 3:38 PM (

I know what you mean. Listening to it as an album track in '91 before it became a single, its concession to contemporary R&B sounded like a surrender ("Isn't Mint Condition doing this better?!"). But he needed to reclaim his R&B fanbase, and it worked. And I'm a sucker for guitar solos that are in essence the main melody line.

in other words: I never say, "Lemme play 'Diamonds and Pearls'!" But when I catch it at CVS or on quiet storm I dig it!

it's all about "The Morning Papers"

"Diamonds and Pearls" is certainly one of the worst songs on The Hits 1 & 2. It moves from merely mediocre to true misfire territory when it gets to the trumpet fanfare into the "D to the I to the A to the M" bridge.

I love D&P the track too.

I'm kind of with Alfred - I never think to put it on by itself, but if I ever listen to the album or just a survey of Prince's hits that covers that era, I let it play and enjoy it.

Cream
sha-boogie-bop

The outtakes are excellent pop-inflected R&B jams in the mode of "Daddy Pop" and the live stuff (mostly) smokes.

Yeah, except for "Jughead," the Glam Slam show is really good. (I'm only streaming this, so I haven't seen the additional live material that's on the Blu-ray.) And the three discs of vault items are a great listen.

The album was already mastered well, so the first disc feels redundant if you already have it. The second disc isn't so hot - I never really liked the remixes or B-sides featured on there, especially the ones that heavily feature Tony M, and the single edits feel superfluous.

I still love the House-style mix of Gett Off, the first time i heard it was on Pete Tong's Friday night Radio 1 show and straight after he played the Disco Fever edit of De La Soul's 'Rollerskating Jam..'. Man THAT was an incredible 15 minutes of radio. It's enough to make me nostalgic for the early 90's.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2bi-xdXFsqk

The only "Gett Off" is "Gett Off (House Style)."

yes.

Fuck, having a good sounding version of prince’s “open book” demo is quite frankly a deeply moving moment

A marvelous reappraisal by Matos: https://www.thecurrent.org/feature/2023/10/27/digging-for-diamonds-and-pearls-in-princes-expanded-reissue

Yeah “Open Book” is definitely the standout of the vault tracks on the SDE of D&P’s…. I’d say the vocals on his demos are some of his best…

Nice that matos singles out willing & able. He’s right that it’s the best track on the album. It seems like the original small group version of it isn’t on here though which is odd to me. It’s even better than the released take imo

That video is incredible

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Apk2Qr9yVc

Nice... was expecting Bela Lugosi's Dead to kick in

“alice through the looking glass” blew my mind, wtf

the live show is obv incredible but in particular i lost my shit when he quoted “it” in the middle of “thieves in the temple”

Yes!