A Boring Question

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However much I were to think and however far I were to scatter my thought, it is clear to me that the main thing, something very important, is lacking in my desires. In my partiality for science, in my desire to live, in all my thoughts, there is no common link, there is nothing that might bind it together in one whole. Each thought and feeling lives in me separately, and the most skilful analyst could not discover what is known as a ruling idea or what might be called the god of the living man in all my opinions of science, the theatre, literature, students, and all the pictures my imagination conjures up.

And if that is not there, nothing is there.

In view of such poverty, any serious illness, the fear of death, the influences of circumstances and people, is quite sufficient to turn upside down and smash into smithereens everything which I have hitherto regarded as my view of things and in which I have seen the meaning and joy of life... When a man lacks the things that are higher and stronger than all external influences, a bad cold in the head is enough to upset his equilibrium and make him see an owl in every bird and hear a dog's howl in every sound. And all his pessimism and optimism, all his thoughts, great and small, are in this case merely a symptom and nothing more.
Nice italics, huh? That's from "A Boring Story" by Chekhov. The question is, Do you have a ruling idea which connects your opinions about music? (15 words or less -- any more and the idea doesn't rule, it... administrates.) Don't feel you need to be as dreadfully earnest as I would be.

Tracer Hand, Wednesday, 23 May 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

You'd earn bonus points from me for being dreadfully earnest, though.

I don't think I have an idea that rules my opinions about music, but I definitely have some kind of general approach or principle that rules how I talk about music. Not sure if I can fit that into 15 words or not though, and anyway I think it's kind of a meta-rule and thus not what you're looking for. (So maybe my rule is: follow the meta-rule.)

Josh, Wednesday, 23 May 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Well, I suppose if Chekhov needed 3 paragraphs to get his point across I can cut you some slack too. Not looking for aphorisms, after all...

Tracer Hand, Wednesday, 23 May 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Approach the music from all sides -- social context, musical context, lyrics, sonic texture, etc. without applying normative judgement. Otherwise you never know the music as it actually is.

Sterling Clover, Wednesday, 23 May 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

It's corny and trite, but it works for me. So here goes:

It's the music that matters. If the music doesn't grab me, then I don't care if wrote the lyrics.

I'm much more forgiving of hamhanded lyrics than hamhanded musical execution.

Tadeusz Suchodolski, Wednesday, 23 May 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

> It's the music that matters. If the music doesn't grab me, then I don't care if wrote the lyrics.

What I meant to say is "then I don't care if (insert name of favorite author/poet/polemicist here) wrote the lyrics."

Drat the formatting!

Tadeusz Suchodolski, Wednesday, 23 May 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

The thing is that I like being ruled by my passions as far as music goes - hearing a dog's howl in every sound and seeing an owl in every bird (owls are great anyway, silly Anton). I used to perhaps try to sublimate my reactions to music into some unspoken master-system but the last couple of years has seen me doing my best to demolish that.

I'm not saying 'feel the music' or 'soul baby' or anything - the intellect/emotion split is as dumb an opposition as rock and rap, after all. Being critical is about being aware of your reactions and the patterns in them, not about trying to fix them.

Tom, Wednesday, 23 May 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

can u smoke 2 it?

Geoff, Wednesday, 23 May 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

I used to have the fool idea that 'conviction' was the litmus, but it's push and pull of desires and insecurities that hold my map of music together. I can focus my thoughts around specific areas, but the same rules don't apply elsewhere. I don't value the awareness of a single rule behind behind my resonses to music, but I got a nice haiku if you'd rather that.

K-reg, Wednesday, 23 May 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

I only like dissatisfied music. But I don't like all dissatisfied music. Some dissatisfied music is also self-satisfied, and I don't like that. Sometimes the dissatisfaction is my own gloss on the music rather than anything intended by the artist.

Nick, Wednesday, 23 May 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

i was going to ask this very same question in the VERY SAME WAY. maybe not with italics, but still...

so when i put something on for the first time, i look for a connection. it's usually a melody, but it can be an arrangement, a beat, the vocal, and sometimes, though HIGHLY infrequently, a lyric: anything that will make me want to play the song again and again and so on.

it doesn't really matter who it's by; that used to be consideration but i've proven myself wrong on far too many occasions lately to allow old biases to stand in the way of something that can bring but joy to the day.

fred solinger, Wednesday, 23 May 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

I find my self drawn to music I like to listen to.

Mike Hanley, Wednesday, 23 May 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

No overriding idea. Indeed one of the things that drives me is to, at least sometimes, embrace morality that all logic would turn me away from. I try to make my personalised view of pop as illogical as possible, partially in response to my dissatisfaction with my (unavoidably) ultra-logical and precise character.

Robin Carmody, Wednesday, 23 May 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Do I like it? There, the end. Not very abstract or anything, but I can no more define what the 'connection' is supposed to be than try to consciously regulate every time I breathe, day or night. And I like the fact that I can't define it. It allows me to be surprised.

Ned Raggett, Wednesday, 23 May 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Tom, I think Chekov's dog howl is a symbol for feeling awful, what he says happens when a slight misfortune befalls a person with no inner convictions.

I think I've been unclear. I don't want to know your musical ideology ("if it don't rap, it's a piece of crap!") -- I want to know if your opinions on music connect with your opinions on politics and shoes and literature and students. I think mine do, but it's inchoate. I'm working on it...

Is this all uselessly pre-modernist? Won't be the first time I've been thusly accused...

Tracer Hand, Wednesday, 23 May 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

K-reg: bring the haiku!! I wrote one yesterday regarding a piece of PalmPilot shareware, intended to assist cigar aficionados record their thoughts on particular brands. And I think it actually works very well as my ruling idea.

Stupid fucks who think
Cigars are people.
Put them to sleep.


Thank you.

Tracer Hand, Wednesday, 23 May 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

My musical tastes often clash with other things in my life. SOmeitmes when I tell people I liek a band they are like "what!?" "YOu liek THEM?"

Mike Hanley, Wednesday, 23 May 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

It all kinda hangs together for me, but don't ask me to explain how.

Patrick, Wednesday, 23 May 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Stereo music
in my head.
'what stereo'

K-reg, Wednesday, 23 May 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

lifting my armpit an Amsterdam memory the smell of curry

nowadays i either like it on first listen or its not worth the effort - no time for 'growers' in 2001, thus ill jettison the new Tindersticks album pronto.

Bhima as Basho, Wednesday, 23 May 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Did Roger Dean do the cover of the album, dude?

Clarke B., Wednesday, 23 May 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

I can quite safely say that my views on music, and art in general, have little-to-nothing to do with my views on politics or life in general. It's true that some of my faves hold or have held political or philosophical views close to mine -- Zappa, Stereolab and Ian McKaye come to mind -- many others don't. In the case of Zappa, Stereolab and McKaye, if their music didn't excite me then I wouldn't bother with their music even if I still found their views on other things compelling. And if politics or world-view were everything, then I'd be the biggest fan of the music of Rage Against the Machine or the Indigo Girls on the planet.

Tadeusz Suchodolski, Wednesday, 23 May 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Likewise for me with (to name two from the air) Billy Bragg and Dead Prez ...

Robin Carmody, Wednesday, 23 May 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

do they have good hair?

gareth, Thursday, 24 May 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

I think that at first, like others, I thought that this question was about a ruling idea re. music. Then Tracer H came back in and said that what s/he meant was re. a ruling idea on EVERYTHING. I think what TH was saying was: do your ideas re music link up with your ideas re other things? In a sense, the question is maybe as big as: is your life coherent? (Is that right, Tracer?)

I thought about it a bit, and thought that for me, the answer was probably no. And less so, too, than, say, 10 years ago, when I perhaps felt more of a need for everything to add up. Circumstantial evidence: Stevie T telling me that my taste was inconsistent, because I like literary modernism but my favourite pop is like C19 realism (so he says).

I also wondered about applying the question to other people on the forum that I know. Possibly they would mind if I did. But it seemed to me that people whose views / tastes / perspectives add up might conceivably include Ally C96 (for 'romanticism') and Tim Hopkins (for 'authenticity'). And people whose views / tastes / perspectives don't add up might include Steady Mike (who combines intense, solemn avant-gardism with bathos and comedy) and Nick Dastoor (who's always undercutting his own views and thinking about how things that he thinks and feels are incompatible). That leaves Stevie T. In a sense Stevie is perhaps so eclectic that his perspectives don't all add up - he contains multitudes. Then again, he's a system builder, a constructer of theories - he is always adding things together, drawing links - so maybe some kind of principle of coherence does animate him.

Apologies if these were cartoon sketches.

the pinefox, Thursday, 24 May 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

That is what I was after, pf. I certainly don't mean "do the artists you listen to believe the same things you do." I'm not sure how one would even figure that out anyway; there are a lot of bands whose music accomplishes the exact opposite of what their lyrics claim.

I am thinking that Chekhov's quote assumes the possibility of self-consistency (between public and private, between shoes and politics) that appeared like a noble dream in 189? but which now strikes us as not only dated, not only impossible, not only potentially dangerous, but even more damning - too restrictive.

Tracer Hand, Thursday, 24 May 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Oops - on the thread above, Tim H just agreed with someone who disowned 'authenticity'. So much for my cartoons.

the pinefox, Saturday, 26 May 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Pinefox, I have very strong evidence that Tim H is no enthusiast for "authenticity".

Robin Carmody, Saturday, 26 May 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Robin's right in so far as I object fairly strongly to a conception of authenticity which says people *should* behave in a way which matches broad assumptions about their upbringing / schooling / race / gender / location, and so on.

In the music I love, though, I find something which I like to think of as *emotional authenticity*: I like it to ring true, and I like to perceive some emotional involvement on the part of the musician. Clearly, this is an issue of my perception rather than something quantifiably 'in' records and it doesn't tally with my knowledge of an artist's life or background; neither does it fit with rootsiness, or singing styles (or even singing). To me, though, it's as real as anything: a palpable sense of an emotional grain. I know it when I hear it. This reply probably belongs on the 'soul' thread, because I suppose that's what I'm talking about.

The "I'm rejecting irony and being real now so I'll grow my hair and wear a sweaty t-shirt" act of N. Hannon is the opposite of what I mean. The knees-bent blueswailing of a Joe Cocker is just as far away. And since I've arrived here, perhaps I'll note that I'm dissatisfied with the irony / honesty opposition which I've seen posited here and elsewhere (mostly elsewhere, but it kind of raises its head on the soul thread). It seems to me that anyone who wanted seriously to think about irony, honesty or otherwise in pop would want to come up with a much more complex and engaging formulation. They might start with Howard Devoto.

Tim, Tuesday, 29 May 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Cheers, Tim. Thanks for clarifying exactly what *kind* of "authenticity" you meant because I probably wouldn't have understood otherwise (though I did think your posting on Sink about community involvement in football *defined* the Common Ground ethos, so each to his own).

Like you, I try to look for a kind of "emotional authenticity" in music and I have often (perhaps wrongly) shied away from describing it as such for fear of it being misconstrued in the sense of exact stylisations. Like you, I couldn't define it, but I know it when I hear it.

Robin Carmody, Tuesday, 29 May 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

I think I agree with Tim H that there is not or shouldn't be, in the end - or is that, in the beginning? - a binary opposition between irony & honesty.

I dislike Neil Hannon whether he's being 'ironic' or 'honest', of course.

the pinefox, Saturday, 9 June 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

And I'd like to echo Tim on Howard Devoto. I got The Correct Use of Soap recently (based upon unanimously positive comments on an ILM thread), and I'm really impressed with the album. 'You Never Knew Me' is a brilliant song!

youn, Sunday, 10 June 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

I think this problem is really specific to Chekhov: not that other people don't have the same problem, but I have never really enjoyed his writing for precisely the reasons articulated in this passage. In fact, I'm a little surprised to read it and hear him so clearly knowing and articulating my critique of him.

I don't think it's uncommon to have a ruling ideology, a cogent metaphysic. As soon as I read Michel Houellebecq's writing about the importance of ideas, I thought YES; that's true; I also believe that ages and people are ruled by ideas, above all else, even singular and simple ideas. This goes beyond the Marxist idea of ideology; it's much simpler. I even believe that Chekhov's belief in his own incoherence was the result of the prevailing idea in his period.

Chekhov DID have a ruling idea; it's articulated above, it's manifested in all his works, and it could be summarised much more briefly. Personally, I think it's not an amazingly great idea, and doesn't result in amazingly great works.

Articulating and understanding your own Idea; well only very few people are granted that in each period, going by historical evidence, and just having a single idea is . . . something immense. For instance, in the case of Houellebecq, he has really only got one idea: that sexual liberalism is a system of social hierarchy. He hasn't achieved much beyond that, but still, that's so much. All I'm saying is, it's expecting a lot to get people to articulate their idea, it's like asking them to understand their age and themselves absolutely and entirely - BUT THAT DOESN'T MEAN THAT THEY DON'T HAVE ONE.

Maryann, Sunday, 10 June 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

I like Maryann's answer and don't have much to add to it. I especially like how she makes Chekhov's notion of a ruling idea quite simple. (But what exactly is Chekhov's ruling idea? That the arts and sciences aren't necessarily opposed (even if he believes that they are) because he himself is the counterexample? That details matter?)

I think it's up to us to make consistency/inconsistency interesting. (Not by justifying our choices but in what we choose. The former is an added finesse, or a different skill, which I guess is necessary to answer this question unless you have friends who understand you and can sum you up in a word.) Nowadays, eclecticism is fashionable. So maybe it's hard for us to understand Chekhov's unease. It would be interesting to hear people making the opposite case.

youn, Thursday, 14 June 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

I have been trying to figure out how to respond to your post for awhile Maryann and I still don't know how. Because I agree with a lot of it ESPECIALLY the last paragraph (have not read Michel Houellebecq). One thing about the quote is that it's from a character's musings, not precisely Chekhov's - the story is a portrait of an old man, extremely well-respected, whose last days are very unhappy - his daughter is about to get married to a dumbass, his wife disgusts him, and he spends his evenings gossiping about nothing with a young woman. He wishes for an idea to connect his ideas about what is right and wrong (in science, in ethics, whatever) with the particularities of his life (for this question's purposes -- music); I don't think he requires anything beyond that. But that idea - or the habits that would engender such an idea - is far beyond his grasp at his place in life.

I don't know what Chekhov's idea was - will you please tell me what you think it was? Many of his stories and plays feature characters struggling with "new ways" - for him, I think the new ways are basically the consequences of modernity - the division of labor into tiny component parts, the growing obsolescence of the self-consistent human being that is the same in both public and private life, a transition occurring very visibly in front of him. Today, eclecticism isn't just fashionable now, it's kind of required. Except maybe in those rooms Momus keeps talking about. I don't share his unease. But I do get frustrated at my inconsistency. 3am - lemme know if this makes sense -

Tracer Hand, Thursday, 14 June 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

eleven months pass...
You want to know why I like Faust AND Dire Straits?? Well, the simple reason could be...I hate modern music. (Kula Shaker are OK though. Not that I even know if they're still going. And the modern King Crimson, well, I might buy their albums if I saw them in a store. Nothing else though.)

Anna Rose, Monday, 20 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Anna is like Robin Williams in 'Jack'. Only more entertaining, obv.

Andrew L, Monday, 20 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

I hate modern music. (Kula Shaker are OK though)

Ladies and gentlemen, the intended audience of Melody Maker. I thank you.

Dom Passantino, Monday, 20 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

But anna likes faust, dom, hence *I* thank *you*...

mark s, Monday, 20 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Maryann I've been waiting for 362 days to know what you think Chekhov's ruling idea is!

Tracer Hand, Monday, 20 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

You want to know why I like Faust AND Dire Straits?? Well, the simple reason could be...I hate modern music.

Beware the powers of the dark side, Anna -- Dire Straits can only lead to hate and suffering.

However, if you like Faust, you'll be pleasantly surprised at the amount of modern bands who are making music just for you. Among my top five faves of all time, include Boredoms and John Zorn. Have you checked them out much?

dleone, Monday, 20 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

The German group Workshop also do a goodish modern 'Faust'-like experimental blahblahblah

Andrew L, Monday, 20 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

And of course Faust are still making recs - 'You Know' is esp. gd.

Andrew L, Monday, 20 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Well, Dire Straits aren't particular favourites. I just like them. And I get the feeling you're all dissing me, but being as I am not very up to date with "Jack"s and I don't know what shit, I can't be certain. Please clarify.

Anna Rose, Tuesday, 21 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Oh what the hell. Just call me the 21rst century Schizoid Fan.

Anna Rose, Tuesday, 21 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)


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