The most buttrockin' song on Buddy Blue's list of the top 50 Butt Rock Anthems (search term: buttrock)

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http://www.asunderpress.com/lists/buttlist.htm

please vote for the song that you feel is most representative of buttrock as a genre/concept/ideology

Poll Results

OptionVotes
"Black Betty" by Ram Jam 11
"Slow Ride" by Foghat 9
"Bad To The Bone" by George Thorogood 6
"We're An American Band" by Grand Funk Railroad 5
"Tush" by ZZ Top 5
"American Woman" by the Guess Who 4
"Mississippi Queen" by Mountain 4
"Hot Blooded" by Foreigner 3
"Highway Star" by Deep Purple 3
"Taking Care Of Business" by Bachman-Turner Overdrive 1
"I Wanna Rock & Roll All Night" by Kiss 1
"I Don't Need No Doctor" by Humble Pie 1
"We're Not Gonna Take It" by Twisted Sister 1
"Old Time Rock & Roll" by Bob Seger 1
"Smokin' In The Boys Room" by Brownsville Station 1
"Can't Get Enough" by Bad Company 1
"Them Changes" by Buddy Miles 1
"Freebird" by Lynyrd Skynyrd 1
"Dude Looks Like A Lady" by Aerosmith 1
"Enter Sandman" by Metallica 1
"Snortin' Whiskey" by Pat Travers 0
"Radar Love" by Golden Earring 0
"Roadhouse Blues" by the Doors 0
"Rock & Roll Hoochie Koo" by Rick Derringer 0
"Rock & Roll, Part Two" by Gary Glitter 0
"Wango Tango" by Ted Nugent 0
"Rocky Mountain Way" by Joe Walsh 0
"Welcome To The Jungle" by Guns 'n' Roses 0
"School's Out" by Alice Cooper 0
"Tuff Enuff" by The Fabulous Thunderbirds 0
"We Will Rock You" by Queen 0
"Hit Me With Your Best Shot" by Pat Benatar 0
"Locomotive Breath" by Jethro Tull 0
"Born In The USA" by Bruce Springsteen 0
"Cocaine" by Eric Clapton 0
"Cum On Feel The Noize" by Quiet Riot 0
"First I Look At The Purse" by the J. Geils Band 0
"For Those About To Rock (We Salute You)" by AC/DC 0
"Frankenstein" by the Edgar Winter Group 0
"Funk #49" by The James Gang 0
"Godzilla" by Blue Oyster Cult 0
"Hard To Handle" by Black Crowes 0
"Heartbreaker" by Led Zeppelin 0
"Hocus Pocus" by Focus 0
"Hold Your Head Up" by Argent 0
"Hoochie Coochie Lady" by Elf 0
"I Love Rock & Roll" by Joan Jett 0
"Keep Your Hands To Yourself" by the Georgia Sattelites 0
"Kick Out The Jams" by MC5 0
"And The Cradle Will Rock..." by Van Halen 0


nothing in the dialog (unregistered), Friday, 7 February 2020 17:27 (five years ago)

don't think you can out-buttrock Tush

ciderpress, Friday, 7 February 2020 17:29 (five years ago)

Was just gonna say!

dad genes (morrisp), Friday, 7 February 2020 17:29 (five years ago)

Feelin' good, feelin' right, it's Saturday night
The hotel detective, he was outta sight!

BlackIronPrison, Friday, 7 February 2020 17:32 (five years ago)

Slow Ride is so buttrock it can fart its way into the cosmos

ill fuckin put a paste on those (Neanderthal), Friday, 7 February 2020 17:36 (five years ago)

I keep scanning through the list and feeling like I have a handle on how 'butt rock' is being used in this context but then it keeps slipping away. Like okay: 'Black Betty', 'Mississippi Queen', 'Frankenstein'. I get it! But then 'Hold Your Head Up'? 'Enter Sandman'? I don't get it!

I heard 'Hocus Pocus' the other day for the first time in a while and, man, that is a hot fucken jam. A jam with some weird-ass yodeling and scatting tacked on here and there, but a jam nonetheless.

Sammo Hazuki's Tago Mago Cantina (Old Lunch), Friday, 7 February 2020 17:38 (five years ago)

Black Betty is proper. Enter Sandman isn't butt rock

ill fuckin put a paste on those (Neanderthal), Friday, 7 February 2020 17:39 (five years ago)

Sorry for butt rockin

ill fuckin put a paste on those (Neanderthal), Friday, 7 February 2020 17:45 (five years ago)

voted Slow Ride

Blues Guitar Solo Heatmap (Free Download) (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Friday, 7 February 2020 17:47 (five years ago)

Torn between "Tush," "Black Betty," "We're An American Band" and "American Woman."

but also fuck you (unperson), Friday, 7 February 2020 17:48 (five years ago)

"Black Betty" sounds like a song that was written solely for automotive repair waiting rooms

ill fuckin put a paste on those (Neanderthal), Friday, 7 February 2020 17:49 (five years ago)

it's credited to Leadbelly but likely dates to the pre Civil War times

Blues Guitar Solo Heatmap (Free Download) (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Friday, 7 February 2020 17:50 (five years ago)

Georgia Satellites kinda only feels butt rock adjacent.

Sammo Hazuki's Tago Mago Cantina (Old Lunch), Friday, 7 February 2020 17:52 (five years ago)

Wow! Didn't know that.

Xpost

ill fuckin put a paste on those (Neanderthal), Friday, 7 February 2020 17:52 (five years ago)

I didn't know that either!

I don't even care that the band was basically manufactured after 'Black Betty' dropped, that Ram Jam album can get it.

Sammo Hazuki's Tago Mago Cantina (Old Lunch), Friday, 7 February 2020 17:56 (five years ago)

highway star and born in the usa are probably the best songs, but they aren't buttrock imo (space truckin' and glory days are much buttier songs by the respective artists).

radar love also feels weirdly out of place, not easy enough to sing along (tho it rocks hard).

black betty and tush are the buttiest, but i think i'm gonna have to go with black betty cause i still get amped when that song drops lol

ooga booga-ing for the bourgeoisie (voodoo chili), Friday, 7 February 2020 17:58 (five years ago)

You are spot-on with your butt rock replacements for Deep Purple and Bruce. I would suggest that 'Twilight Zone' is a much butt-ier choice than 'Radar Love'.

Sammo Hazuki's Tago Mago Cantina (Old Lunch), Friday, 7 February 2020 18:01 (five years ago)

dope butt-rockin video too

A-B-C. A-Always, B-Be, C-Chooglin (will), Friday, 7 February 2020 18:01 (five years ago)

Butt rockin lead

ill fuckin put a paste on those (Neanderthal), Friday, 7 February 2020 18:01 (five years ago)

(Ram Jam)

A-B-C. A-Always, B-Be, C-Chooglin (will), Friday, 7 February 2020 18:01 (five years ago)

"Tush" just barely over 'American Woman"

let's talk about gecs baby (sleeve), Friday, 7 February 2020 18:02 (five years ago)

No “Ain’t Seen Nothin Yet”????????????? come on!! the only song truly within wiggling distance of it in this list is Takin Care Of Business imo

Li'l Brexit (Tracer Hand), Friday, 7 February 2020 18:05 (five years ago)

pretty dope list tbrr

A True White Kid that can Jump (Granny Dainger), Friday, 7 February 2020 18:05 (five years ago)

If someone says buttrock I'm thinking "Slow Ride" right off the bat

Still, I'm going for "Highway Butt" by Butt Purple

Josefa, Friday, 7 February 2020 18:06 (five years ago)

this is harder than just about any poll I've seen

A True White Kid that can Jump (Granny Dainger), Friday, 7 February 2020 18:06 (five years ago)

kick out the jams isn't buttrock tho

A True White Kid that can Jump (Granny Dainger), Friday, 7 February 2020 18:07 (five years ago)

Shouldn't Free "All Right Now" be here

ill fuckin put a paste on those (Neanderthal), Friday, 7 February 2020 18:08 (five years ago)

Moreso than 'Welcome to the Jungle' and 'Can't Get Enough' for sure.

Sammo Hazuki's Tago Mago Cantina (Old Lunch), Friday, 7 February 2020 18:09 (five years ago)

I like other songs more but in the category of buttrock it's one of:
Bad to the Bone
Mississisisipspsppiii Queen
Slow Ride

A True White Kid that can Jump (Granny Dainger), Friday, 7 February 2020 18:10 (five years ago)

"is this Freedom Rock?? Well turn it up!!"

A True White Kid that can Jump (Granny Dainger), Friday, 7 February 2020 18:10 (five years ago)

Yea GNR is cockrock but not butt

ill fuckin put a paste on those (Neanderthal), Friday, 7 February 2020 18:11 (five years ago)

Xxbutt

ill fuckin put a paste on those (Neanderthal), Friday, 7 February 2020 18:11 (five years ago)

godbless the internet
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2eGWW8KOQio

A True White Kid that can Jump (Granny Dainger), Friday, 7 February 2020 18:11 (five years ago)

xpost butt rock has to be popular MC5 is not popular

Blues Guitar Solo Heatmap (Free Download) (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Friday, 7 February 2020 18:11 (five years ago)

Lol at One Tin Soldier being on that comp

ill fuckin put a paste on those (Neanderthal), Friday, 7 February 2020 18:12 (five years ago)

BRB; comparing the songs in the poll to the track listing of this compilation:

https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/81f+vIcEpIL.jpg

but also fuck you (unperson), Friday, 7 February 2020 18:12 (five years ago)

Suspect compilation creator saw "Soldier" im the title and says IT FITS

ill fuckin put a paste on those (Neanderthal), Friday, 7 February 2020 18:13 (five years ago)

Xpost

ill fuckin put a paste on those (Neanderthal), Friday, 7 February 2020 18:13 (five years ago)

also MIA: “Jesus Is Just Alright” (Doobie Bros version obv)

Li'l Brexit (Tracer Hand), Friday, 7 February 2020 18:14 (five years ago)

Shouldn't Free "All Right Now" be here

― ill fuckin put a paste on those (Neanderthal), Friday, February 7, 2020 1:08 PM (six minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

yes

ooga booga-ing for the bourgeoisie (voodoo chili), Friday, 7 February 2020 18:15 (five years ago)

"Spirit in the Sky" kinda Jews for Jesus buttrock

ill fuckin put a paste on those (Neanderthal), Friday, 7 February 2020 18:16 (five years ago)

BOC - "Godzilla"?

ill fuckin put a paste on those (Neanderthal), Friday, 7 February 2020 18:16 (five years ago)

American Woman feels like the buttiest.

As someone with a lot of love for corn a lot of this shit is way too corny for my enjoyment.

Todd Phillips, party auteur (Noodle Vague), Friday, 7 February 2020 18:17 (five years ago)

Conspicuously absent butt:

Billy Squier - 'Stroke'
Heart - 'Barracuda'
Hombres - 'Let It Out (Let It All Hang Out)'
Black Sabbath, period

Maybe Cafferty - 'On the Dark Side'? Surely Mellencamp had something appropriately butt-y. .38 Special?

Sammo Hazuki's Tago Mago Cantina (Old Lunch), Friday, 7 February 2020 18:22 (five years ago)

Basically if I can picture a 50-something biker with a bandana that thinks Jeff Foxworthy is funny vibin to it, it's the buttrock I don't like

ill fuckin put a paste on those (Neanderthal), Friday, 7 February 2020 18:22 (five years ago)

Xpost

ill fuckin put a paste on those (Neanderthal), Friday, 7 February 2020 18:22 (five years ago)

I mean yes, of course, there is good butt rock and lame butt rock but(t) in the interests of science we should set our prejudices aside in determining which songs fit. All I am saying is give butt a chance.

Sammo Hazuki's Tago Mago Cantina (Old Lunch), Friday, 7 February 2020 18:25 (five years ago)

why won't you just butt out of this

A True White Kid that can Jump (Granny Dainger), Friday, 7 February 2020 18:27 (five years ago)

My friend and I tried to whittle down a definition, and what we concluded was it had to have a certain lack of ambition (ymmv). That is, it can't be funny on purpose ("Godzilla"), it can't have a clear unified artistic vision (AC/DC, Van Halen, ZZ Top), it just has to be butt-stupid blues-riff based rock. So, like, BTO's "Tacking Care of Business" is a yes, but in our opinion "Ain't Seen Nothing Yet" is a no, since it's got some cool chords in it. "Black Betty" is a no, because that thing is complicated as hell, and we didn't included stuff like Kiss, because Kiss is lame. Boogie always helps hit the buttock sweet spot, but our top picks were stuff like "Smoke On the Water" and for sure "Mississippi Queen" and "We're An American Band." Bad Company's "Feel like Makin' Love" deserves some, er, love, too. We considered stuff like Sabbath and specifically "Iron Man" as kind of honorary ur-butt rock.

Josh in Chicago, Friday, 7 February 2020 18:27 (five years ago)

Nazareth "Hair of the Dog" also missing

ill fuckin put a paste on those (Neanderthal), Friday, 7 February 2020 18:28 (five years ago)

So that is my buttrock credentials in a nutshell.

earlnash, Friday, 30 July 2021 03:41 (four years ago)

using those old metal tennis ball cans and building cannons with lighter fluid

We called those "Polish cannons" (suburban South Florida circa 1980). We probably could've come up with a less disrespectful name, but that was the times. There seems to be a certain fundamental common ground connecting suburban culture across the US.

Josefa, Friday, 30 July 2021 03:47 (four years ago)

I think we all have to acknowledge that earlnash might be a buttrock authority.

I grew up in Southern Illinois and I might be slightly younger but I can totally relate to your posts.

There is something very midwest about buttrock, I feel.

Carlos Santana & Mahavishnu Rob Thomas (PBKR), Friday, 30 July 2021 12:59 (four years ago)

so pleased at how much the butt thread expanded today

making splashes at Dan Flashes (Neanderthal), Friday, 30 July 2021 17:06 (four years ago)

earlnash def has the bonafides
*stamps buttrock card*

ozzy still aint buttrock tho :)

terminators of endearment (VegemiteGrrl), Friday, 30 July 2021 17:39 (four years ago)

Agreed. But why? One thought is it's not quite bro-y enough.

Carlos Santana & Mahavishnu Rob Thomas (PBKR), Friday, 30 July 2021 18:45 (four years ago)

no sleaze

terminators of endearment (VegemiteGrrl), Friday, 30 July 2021 18:45 (four years ago)

sleaze quotient must be 75% or higher

terminators of endearment (VegemiteGrrl), Friday, 30 July 2021 18:46 (four years ago)

ozzy is too heavy to be buttrock, but "crazy train" is certainly a buttrock anthem

bezos did the dub (voodoo chili), Friday, 30 July 2021 18:53 (four years ago)

ok yr going to have to explain your logic because i do not see it at all

terminators of endearment (VegemiteGrrl), Friday, 30 July 2021 18:57 (four years ago)

I don't think "Crazy Train" fits but something like "Flying High Again" is pretty butt. Camaro Rock.

Josh in Chicago, Friday, 30 July 2021 19:13 (four years ago)

ok but just picturing it playing in a camaro is not the only criteria

camaro must be driven by the 30 year old dude dating a high schooler or what are we even doing here

terminators of endearment (VegemiteGrrl), Friday, 30 July 2021 19:17 (four years ago)

I feel like buttrock and “gas grass or ass nobody rides for free” bumper stickers are strongly correlated more so than any particular vehicle

joygoat, Friday, 30 July 2021 19:21 (four years ago)

otm

terminators of endearment (VegemiteGrrl), Friday, 30 July 2021 19:21 (four years ago)

I feel like buttrock and “gas grass or ass nobody rides for free” bumper stickers are strongly correlated more so than any particular vehicle

joygoat, Friday, 30 July 2021 19:22 (four years ago)

point of comparison:

THIS is buttrock:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0TantJmKEQw

terminators of endearment (VegemiteGrrl), Friday, 30 July 2021 19:23 (four years ago)

ok yr going to have to explain your logic because i do not see it at all

― terminators of endearment (VegemiteGrrl), Friday, July 30, 2021 1:57 PM (thirty-eight minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

idk i can picture wayne and garth banging their head to it. maybe they were more sophisticated than the average butt rockers. also, it's got a big dumb riff and a big dumb chorus ("metal wounds not heeeeealing"), and it inspired a big dumb rap song by trick daddy and lil jon.

bezos did the dub (voodoo chili), Friday, 30 July 2021 19:37 (four years ago)

The bass is so 80s sounding on that Babys track, but everything else is butt beyond belief!

Citole Country (bendy), Friday, 30 July 2021 19:41 (four years ago)

buttrock can’t be just dumb or it’d be literally all of 70’s hard rock lol

also wayne & garth headbanged to queen & bohemian rhapsody is for sure not buttrock. wayne & garth are heshers, not buttrockers

sleaze is the key, music and or lyrics

music that makes creepy camaro dudes wiggle their butt

terminators of endearment (VegemiteGrrl), Friday, 30 July 2021 19:42 (four years ago)

This revive and Dusty Hill's death has me contemplating the line between smart-dumb and stupid-dumb in rock once again. I have a hard time calling ZZ Top butt, but I can't pinpoint how their wit shines through in "Tush", so literally and figuratively buttrock head to bottom, and yet and yet and yet I can't quite call it that.

Citole Country (bendy), Friday, 30 July 2021 19:47 (four years ago)

you cant think of it as a judgement. maybe it was intended that way but it’s easier if you just treat it like a fun theoretical subgenre

“oh this song is good/i like this band/ therefore it’s not buttrock” will get you nowhere

it’s the vibe that takes it there. buttrock ~is~ creepy & dumb & sleazy but it’s not just bad music that belongs here

plus it’s a vibe that has been at the heart of rock n roll since elvis waggled his pelvis

terminators of endearment (VegemiteGrrl), Friday, 30 July 2021 20:00 (four years ago)

One sign of wit or at least winking in "Tush" is that you have this Texas boogie band using the Yiddish term for butt. That's pretty funny.

Josh in Chicago, Friday, 30 July 2021 20:11 (four years ago)

grand funk
bto
bad company
edgar winter band - “frankenstein”
some joe walsh?

brimstead, Friday, 30 July 2021 20:16 (four years ago)

yeah maybe joe!

terminators of endearment (VegemiteGrrl), Friday, 30 July 2021 20:24 (four years ago)

alright guys the butt is getting a lil too greasy in here let's make sure we keep an eye on that

making splashes at Dan Flashes (Neanderthal), Friday, 30 July 2021 20:51 (four years ago)

If there's one thing butt rock is generally not it's slick.

Josh in Chicago, Friday, 30 July 2021 21:00 (four years ago)

u_u

terminators of endearment (VegemiteGrrl), Friday, 30 July 2021 22:20 (four years ago)

VG, what are your thoughts on Born in the USA as buttrock?

Carlos Santana & Mahavishnu Rob Thomas (PBKR), Friday, 30 July 2021 22:26 (four years ago)

Head East were only mentioned briefly once in this thread, but I think they've got the goods. Earnest, sturdy, plodding meat and potatoes rock with no pretensions to metal. No pretensions to anything, except the joys of Gettin' Lucky with a Fly By Night Lady.

Aw, turn on your radio, and put your ear to the sweet sweet music
And take your baby and hold her in your arms and let the music go...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rTP4o1PdjMU

Three Rings for the Elven Bishop (Dan Peterson), Friday, 30 July 2021 22:28 (four years ago)

I guess I always thought it was a strictly 70s thing… maybe stretching back to 68 or so

brimstead, Friday, 30 July 2021 22:32 (four years ago)

When we moved there in '78 - our next door neighbor was a divorced sales guy for Pepsi that had like 4 teenage sons (no mom). The dad looked kinda like Herb Tarlek with the checkered leisure pans etc. Their house was complete madness, with tons of Pepsi on the shelf, HBO on the TV and dad not much around - which meant all sorts of crazy stuff going on.

The older brother looked pretty much like Wooderson, the two middle sons were twins Denny and Danny that had big curly fros and glasses and me and my buddies hung out with the youngest kid who was a couple years older than me (I was like 8-9 at the time). The twin brothers were geeky and were always like using those old metal tennis ball cans and building cannons with lighter fluid and using M80s to blow shit up. They literally got me high a few times as a kid like age 8-9. I remember well listening to the first Cars record on LP and like the world melting down.

Couple years later the dad started dating this redheaded English lady and they eventually got married and moved out. How the heck he met a English woman in Muncie in the that era, I still wonder how it happened.

This sounds a lot like the dirtbag brothers who lived across the street from me with their widowed dad. Their mom was alive when I moved to the neighborhood, but then she got cancer and after she died, he used to lock himself in their backyard shed and drink all day, so the two brothers basically took over the house. I was forbidden to hang out with them, but of course that's where I spent my afternoons when my mom was at work. They listened to some lunkheaded shit — Led Zeppelin, Black Sabbath, KISS — but they were also into Zappa, the Residents, ELP and Captain Beefheart, all of which I learned about over there.

but also fuck you (unperson), Friday, 30 July 2021 22:46 (four years ago)

xposts

Born In The Usa is 100% NOT buttrock

sleaze quotient = zero, for a start, along w a million other reasons

terminators of endearment (VegemiteGrrl), Friday, 30 July 2021 23:18 (four years ago)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b-ScDz4Vj98

calstars, Friday, 30 July 2021 23:34 (four years ago)

^^^^^ gets it

terminators of endearment (VegemiteGrrl), Friday, 30 July 2021 23:44 (four years ago)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a58295TocB8

calstars, Friday, 30 July 2021 23:54 (four years ago)

Born In The Usa is 100% NOT buttrock

Thanks, VG!

Carlos Santana & Mahavishnu Rob Thomas (PBKR), Saturday, 31 July 2021 00:09 (four years ago)

Is Mott the Hoople - "Sucker" too glam for buttrock, cause it makes me feel like I need a shower after listening to it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vXVowBOGU-k

Carlos Santana & Mahavishnu Rob Thomas (PBKR), Saturday, 31 July 2021 00:14 (four years ago)

I mean, having Bowie on sax by definition probably means it's not.

Carlos Santana & Mahavishnu Rob Thomas (PBKR), Saturday, 31 July 2021 00:15 (four years ago)

Good one. Mommas Little Jewel too

calstars, Saturday, 31 July 2021 00:19 (four years ago)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Jjr7KxTeB4

calstars, Saturday, 31 July 2021 00:21 (four years ago)

So buttrock it needs to be cancelled:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SBSUALhpce8

Carlos Santana & Mahavishnu Rob Thomas (PBKR), Saturday, 31 July 2021 00:24 (four years ago)

Mott’s a bit too glam, piano-y, too “bright”? Not nasty-sounding enough.

Definitely Grand Funk though, they are automatically a shoo-in for buttrock

terminators of endearment (VegemiteGrrl), Saturday, 31 July 2021 02:07 (four years ago)

also pkbr raises a good criteria

“if it would get you cancelled ….it MIGHT be buttrock”

terminators of endearment (VegemiteGrrl), Saturday, 31 July 2021 02:08 (four years ago)

butt beyond belief!


I want to see the call toll free 2 record / 2 cassette TV ad for this compilation

joygoat, Saturday, 31 July 2021 02:29 (four years ago)

<"Black Betty" riff plays>

"Hey man, is that Butt Beyond Belief?"

"Yeah man!"

"Well, turn it up man!!!"

“Heroin” (ft. Bobby Gillespie) (C. Grisso/McCain), Saturday, 31 July 2021 02:52 (four years ago)

lmao

terminators of endearment (VegemiteGrrl), Saturday, 31 July 2021 02:52 (four years ago)

Time-Life infomercial co-hosted by Sammy Hagar

“Heroin” (ft. Bobby Gillespie) (C. Grisso/McCain), Saturday, 31 July 2021 02:53 (four years ago)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nU19noOmkaM

earlnash, Saturday, 31 July 2021 02:53 (four years ago)

i wanna vote in this Suzi Quatro jam

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J6XUG9GIqPo

terminators of endearment (VegemiteGrrl), Saturday, 31 July 2021 03:24 (four years ago)

https://triblive.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/06/2762802_web1_ptr-SHagar-062420.jpg

"Hi, I'm Sammy Hagar. Remember the days when you could ball a girl in the back of your metalflake flame Econoline in the parking lot of a Molly Hatchet concert?"

Carlos Santana & Mahavishnu Rob Thomas (PBKR), Saturday, 31 July 2021 09:29 (four years ago)


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