Are Refused the best Punk Band ever?

Message Bookmarked

Bookmark Removed

I bought their albums ("Shape of Punk to come," songs to fan the flames," and, "this just might be...") a couple of years ago, and whilst I enjoyed them, I found I didn;t listen to them after a while. However, I blasted, "The Shape of Punk to come," recently, and can now hypothesise, that they are possibly the greatest Punk Band ever. I own albums by the Dead Kennedy's, Big Back and Black Flag, and enjoy them all, but Refused have a certain something which makes them stand out.

Please Bombard me with your thoughts.

― John-Denver, Friday, 22 November 2002 11:39 (twenty-three years ago)

No and the mediocrity of (the) International Noise Conspiracy stuff should highlight this.

They're not bad though!

― Jonathan Williams (ex machina), Friday, 22 November 2002 12:15 (twenty-three years ago)

― Stewart Osborne (Stewart Osborne), Friday, 22 November 2002 12:19 (twenty-three years ago)

hell no.

― your null fame (yournullfame), Friday, 22 November 2002 15:44 (twenty-three years ago)

Not even close.

― ^Diego^ (dhadis), Friday, 22 November 2002 16:23 (twenty-three years ago)

Now now. Let's not bring The (International) Noise Conspiracy into this. That's like blaming Black Flag for everything Henry Rollins has done since leaving them.

Anyway, if Refused are punk, then that means Fugazi is punk, and Fugazi is better than Refused.

― Nick Mirov (nick), Friday, 22 November 2002 18:04 (twenty-three years ago)

"refused are fucking dead" rocks as hard as its title

― brains (cerybut), Friday, 22 November 2002 19:05 (twenty-three years ago)

"Born Against is Fucking Dead" = more crucial

― Jonathan Williams (ex machina), Friday, 22 November 2002 19:09 (twenty-three years ago)

Here's my breakdown on Refused:

They are not the greatest punk band ever. There's way too much competetion in that field for any one band to truly claim that title. You can't really compete with the founding fathers, like Black Flag, FEAR, DK, Bad Brains, Murphy's Law. And you have to admit that everything up until SOPTC was prety much standard chugga-chugga hardcore, which isn't all that exciting.

However, Shape Of Punk To Come was (and is) revolutionary. It is one of my personal favorites. It has pushed the boundries of the genre more than any band I can think of in the last 15 to 20 years. I think punk would turn out much better if the cookie-cutter bands out there right now would take a lesson from SOPTC.

In short, though they might not be the greatest punk band ever, I'd say SOPTC alone makes them the best punk band we've seen from about 1990 to present.

― Helltime Producto (Pavlik), Friday, 22 November 2002 20:01 (twenty-three years ago)

Helltime Producto - please see Dischord records catalog 1990-present k thx

― Jonathan Williams (ex machina), Friday, 22 November 2002 20:06 (twenty-three years ago)

Look, I know all about your Fugazi's and Q And Not U's (could see them about once a month, actually) and Nation of Ulysses and and so on and so forth. Dischord was really breaking some ground in the 80s, like Embrace and Rites Of Spring, and early Fugazi, and granted, those bands were all pushing the envelope, however, around that time Dischord kinda settled into a style. As a collective it had moved on past the polka-beat hardcore of SOA and Minor Threat onto the roots of the "emo" movement (I really don't like that word very much). Once there they kinda did more of the same. I'm not saying it's not great, but they just didn't pack in all the different shit that SOPTC had going on it (which I guess you could really say was all at the production level).

― Helltime Producto (Pavlik), Friday, 22 November 2002 22:47 (twenty-three years ago)

To put that a little more clearly (it reads like shit now that I see it) Dischord did all their groundbreaking and envelope pushing 15 years ago, and they did a hell of a lot of it back then. In the 90s there was a stagnation for a while, and then SOPTC came out in 98 and broke some more new ground.

― Helltime Producto (Pavlik), Friday, 22 November 2002 22:51 (twenty-three years ago)

It is prog punk. Which means I like it pretty well. It's also pretty metal, I'm surprised that it's as popular among the indie crowd as it is (heard it played in hipster coffee shops, etc.).

― Jordan (Jordan), Friday, 22 November 2002 23:23 (twenty-three years ago)

its because of their haircuts

― chaki (chaki), Saturday, 23 November 2002 00:09 (twenty-three years ago)

Calling Refused the best punk band ever, even 1990-present just ignores too much great music. They may be really good, and you may like them, but that doesn't mean one great album qualifies them for godhood. I'd place a bunch of bands on the list in front of Refused, including the aforementioned Born Against and Nation of Ulysses as well as The Ramones, Black Flag, Minor Threat, Los Crudos, Palatka, Lungfish etc.

― Ian Johnson (orion), Saturday, 23 November 2002 00:15 (twenty-three years ago)

dont forget avril

― chaki (chaki), Saturday, 23 November 2002 00:17 (twenty-three years ago)

"Shape of Punk to Come" can hold its own with the best albums by any of the bands named on this thread. Except for maybe Born Against who were the best American band since the Beatles

― J0hn Darn13ll3 (J0hn Darn13ll3), Saturday, 23 November 2002 00:36 (twenty-three years ago)

I'm not calling them the best, or gods, I'm just saying that SOPTC was more orignal and refreshing than anything other punk bands were doing at the time. You can't deny it. In 1998 there wasn't a whole lot of "new" stuff going on in the wide world of punk. What was going on back then? The Warped tour was just really starting on it's path towards a lollapalooza-like doom, and Fat Wreck and Epitaph were doing their things, and let's face it, ever since California punk went from Black Flag, Fear, and DK, to Bad Religion and NOFX, it kinda got stuck in a rut.

― Helltime Producto (Pavlik), Saturday, 23 November 2002 00:41 (twenty-three years ago)

There was a lot going on in the 90's outside of punk qua punk.

― Jonathan Williams (ex machina), Saturday, 23 November 2002 00:53 (twenty-three years ago)

they are american = they are not punk

however the real answer to the thread question = yes

i haf nevah heard them tho

― mark s (mark s), Saturday, 23 November 2002 11:56 (twenty-three years ago)

"punk qua punk" = my favourite phrase today

― mark s (mark s), Saturday, 23 November 2002 11:58 (twenty-three years ago)

you know, if Refused didn't put the word Punk in their goddamn album title, nobody would even call them a punk band.

― Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Saturday, 23 November 2002 18:30 (twenty-three years ago)

"they are american = they are not punk"

um, surely Refused are swedish. which makes them uber-punk!!

― Wyndham Earl, Saturday, 23 November 2002 18:48 (twenty-three years ago)

they are swedish = they are american

― mark s (mark s), Saturday, 23 November 2002 19:39 (twenty-three years ago)

they are anywhere = they are american

― jess (dubplatestyle), Saturday, 23 November 2002 19:57 (twenty-three years ago)

"You can't really compete with the founding fathers, like Black Flag, FEAR, DK, Bad Brains, Murphy's Law"

The founding fathers, none of them had a record out until 1980, by which time punk was all over bar the shouting!

"they are american = they are not punk"

Absolutely right. The Stooges came from Basingstoke, NY Dolls came from Milton Keynes and the Ramones all came from Coventry. Everybody knows that.

― Stewart Osborne (Stewart Osborne), Saturday, 23 November 2002 21:40 (twenty-three years ago)

Ugh. I went from thinking, "Hey! This is the greatest, most adventurous, innovative punk rock ever!" to "Jesus, this is sorta awful.". All in the space of three days. They have some nice production(SOPTC) and such but they leave me cold. For all the innovation and such, they simply don't ignite that spark that the great punk does. I even took up with someone who's taste in music is vastly superior to mine...her conclusion = I hate them. I just listened to Rocket to Russia again, and couldn't wipe the smile from my face.

One last thing, I agree with the sentiment that Dischord fell into a "style" & that music in general should not be bound by a "rule book" blah, blah, blah. You know the deal.

― Juan (Juan), Sunday, 24 November 2002 02:06 (twenty-three years ago)

Their music is pretty good and parts are quite interesting, but the vocalist just isn't that interesting and it takes their whole schtik down a couple of notches.

It would be more interesting if they incorporated the noodly electronic bits into the songs, instead of using them like duck tape between tracks.

This being said, "The Shape of Punk to Come" sounded alot better than I thought it was going to sound. I file it into, "I'm glad my friend at the record store let me borrow it for a couple of days, so I didn't drop cash on this one, as I wouldn't have given it much listen after a couple of weeks."

Non musically related, those liner notes on "The Shape of Punk to Come" are the most overwrought since "Songs of a Dead Dreamer".

― earlnash, Monday, 25 November 2002 06:22 (twenty-three years ago)

O.K, maybe they aren't the greatest punk band ever, but they've arguably done more to move the genre on than any other band in the last couple of years.

By the way, who does the song called "Scab," with all the skaters falling over and hurting themselves? I heard it ages ago, and can't get it out of my head. Any help would be appreciated.

P.S. AVRIL RULES.

― John-Denver, Monday, 25 November 2002 10:51 (twenty-three years ago)

seven months pass...

REVIVE THREAD

I think someone brainwashed people into thinking Refused was good while in reality they really just wanted to Born Against / MRP. (Interestingly enough, the train of thought that brought me here was a mental enumeration of CD collections of one night stands.)

Fuck Swedish haircut rock.

― Jon Williams (ex machina), Monday, 7 July 2003 01:20 (twenty-two years ago)

Fuck Swedish haircut rock.

Calling out punk bands for be overstylized on ilx0r = out-Sisyphizing Sisyphus

― J0hn Darn1elle (J0hn Darn1elle), Monday, 7 July 2003 02:21 (twenty-two years ago)

my old roommate and I had kind of a cs lewis thing going with this album. we had so much fun hating shape of punk to come it was CONSTANTLY in our changer, always VERY loud.

― g--ff c-nn-n (gcannon), Monday, 7 July 2003 02:24 (twenty-two years ago)

cs lewis hated refused too?

― Josh (Josh), Monday, 7 July 2003 02:30 (twenty-two years ago)

yes and then he loved it.

― g--ff c-nn-n (gcannon), Monday, 7 July 2003 02:35 (twenty-two years ago)

I like The Ramones in a totally non-ironic/homoerotic way.

― ben welsh (benwelsh), Monday, 7 July 2003 02:38 (twenty-two years ago)

cs lewis was such a waffler.

― Josh (Josh), Monday, 7 July 2003 02:40 (twenty-two years ago)

cs lewis loved jesus.

― ben welsh (benwelsh), Monday, 7 July 2003 02:40 (twenty-two years ago)

I like The Ramones in a totally non-ironic/homoerotic way.

I can see liking Television in a homoerotic way, but the Ramones?

― Christine 'Green Leafy Dragon' Indigo (cindigo), Monday, 7 July 2003 02:57 (twenty-two years ago)

if refused hadn't broken up do you think jesus would like them, if he were alive now in the future to see them? and more importantly would he judge them to be the best punk band ever, despite the intervening millennia of totally punk rock groups like the protestant reformation, and jay-z?

― Josh (Josh), Monday, 7 July 2003 03:02 (twenty-two years ago)

Leather.

― ben welsh (benwelsh), Monday, 7 July 2003 03:02 (twenty-two years ago)

I bet Jesus would be into Phish.

― ben welsh (benwelsh), Monday, 7 July 2003 03:02 (twenty-two years ago)

jesus.

― Josh (Josh), Monday, 7 July 2003 03:19 (twenty-two years ago)

i bet Jesus would slap around Jason Pierce and tell him to write about Somebody Else for a while, for once.

Like Buddha, or Somebody.

― Kingfish (Kingfish), Monday, 7 July 2003 03:49 (twenty-two years ago)

i remember being at a refused concert around 1995, that was fun as a 15 year old. It as in a really small room and the place was packed.

I might check The shape of punk to come out, it´s really not my kind of music.

― Jens (brighter), Monday, 7 July 2003 07:11 (twenty-two years ago)

five months pass...

My vote is for the obvious : Rancid

― Stephen Poo, Friday, 19 December 2003 06:49 (twenty-two years ago)

::::splutter::::

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Friday, 19 December 2003 06:52 (twenty-two years ago)

Rancid would more properly be called "proto-punk". Most of the real punk came later, when many bands adopted their groundbreaking style adding their own unique touches. I predict that the genre will eventually become stale, but before it does, there are a lot of brothers' friends' dogs who will have to learn to play guitar! That, and the world will run out of plastic.

― jazz odysseus, Friday, 19 December 2003 07:39 (twenty-two years ago)

Shape of Punk to Come is a pretty rad album, but I wouldn't dare call Refused the greatest punk band of all time. They are cool for making that record, which was definitely one of the best punk albums of the 90's. Before that they were fairly generic metallic hardcore.

― latebloomer (latebloomer), Friday, 19 December 2003 11:20 (twenty-two years ago)

By the way, who does the song called "Scab," with all the skaters falling over and hurting themselves? I heard it ages ago, and can't get it out of my head. Any help would be appreciated.

Probably too late to answer this, but that sounds like Unsane's Scrape video.

Best band ever.

(well,no, not really, but they're great! Who are you to give away free tulips anyways?)

― Øystein H-O (Øystein H-O), Friday, 19 December 2003 11:53 (twenty-two years ago)

two weeks pass...

Refused may not be the "greatest punk band ever," since, technically, they're not even punk. Refused is the greatest straightedge hardcore band out there. How bout that?

Rancid is exactly that...rancid. I can't stand them.

AFI is awesome.

There, I'm done.

― Vince Nieto, Wednesday, 7 January 2004 16:58 (twenty-two years ago)

Skipping 12 messages at this point... Click here if you want to load them all.

Oh shut up Lil' Fancy Kpants (The K is Silent)!

And, when are you going to answer my question??????

― Aja (aja), Saturday, 10 April 2004 21:15 (twenty-one years ago)

aja have you ever heard born against?

― strongo hulkington (dubplatestyle), Saturday, 10 April 2004 21:22 (twenty-one years ago)