The Great American Novelty

Despise one of these

I didn’t know Werewolves was considered a novelty song.

(xposts) You're quite likely referring to my favourite--Dylan--which will probably finish last. I have spoken many times of my utter bafflement over the hatred of this song.

I think it is...it fits the definition of a novelty song, also has the Halloween angle.

I'll put it this way: "Heart of Gold" is Neil Young's biggest hit, and next to "Heart of Gold," "Werewolves of London" is a novelty song. (Don't get me wrong--that's the other one I totally love.)

The Dylan song combines campfire singalong with giggly aren't we naughty student japery and I hate both those things

Zevon and Newman are both unfuckwithable

I never knew until today that an actual video was made for "Werewolves," and that, when Cruise runs his fingers through his hair in The Color of Money on the line "his hair was perfect," he's imitating Zevon in the video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qae25976UgA

giggly aren't we naughty student japery

They don’t sound like students to me, but instead a studio full of (genuinely) cool musicians.

my millennial opinion: 'ding a ling' is complete garbage, bob dylan is a novelty artist, never heard 'short people' but all the other randy newman I've heard sucks, 'werewolves' is fine.

voted for nothing.

werewolves is so far ahead of the others

i think i heard people complaining about "my ding a ling" being chuck berry's biggest hit for years before i ever actually heard it. it's a stupid song, but doesn't really bother me.

i loved "rainy day women" when i first heard it, but have gotten a little tired of it over the years.

"short people" is catchy but i've never really felt like it had much of a point? it feels a little shallow next to newman's best stuff.

"werewolves of london" is probably the one i'd be most pleased to hear on the radio, so i'm going with that one.

JD otm

my millennial opinion: 'ding a ling' is complete garbage, bob dylan is a novelty artist, never heard 'short people' but all the other randy newman I've heard sucks, 'werewolves' is fine.

voted for nothing.

as someone born right at that Carter-Reagan cusp between Gen X and millennialism, I just wanna say that this post rules/sucks, and that blink-182's "all the small things" could've been included in this poll, and that America is a novelty country

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DflYYP20k-g

The Berry and Dylan songs deserve their negative reputations. If we were voting for the worst, I’d give Dylan the edge, given that it was the favourite/only-known Dylan song by a bunch of my high school classmates.

I don’t think I know “Short People” beyond a reference to it in the Pod People episode of MST3K.

Voting “Werewolves” pretty much by default (though I like it ok).

I love "All the Small Things," but it's outside this poll every which way.

Warren Zevon's going to win going away. That's fine...I was talking to a friend about "Werewolves," and I pointed out that at the school I used to be it, if it was a year where I was looking after entry-music, it'd be "Werewolves" on Halloween; if it was Ms. S______, it'd be "Thriller."

"used to be at"

Had no idea 'Rainy Day Women #12 & 35' was so bad and hated, so I voted for it.

Doesn't feel so novelty-esque in the context of Blonde on Blonde tbh, and I like its proto-Tom Waits energy.

Harry Nilsson’s “Coconut” didn’t make the cut?

Not his biggest hit.

Missed that part-

Has a 90s novelty poll been done i.e. Flaming Lips “She Don’t Use Jelly,” Nada Surf “Popular,” etc?

Yeah, those were the three conditions: major American artist, novelty song, biggest hit. I know "major" is subjective to a degree, but--as much as I like some of his songs--I wouldn't put Harry Nilsson with these four guys.

Mmm mmm mmm is the obvious 90s one/

Cant stand my dingaling
Rainy day women is really great. It's so wobbly it legit used to make me queasy as a kid.
Never heard short ppl until now, i liked it a lot but it doesn't strike me as atypical of randy newman.
Werewolves is the only zevon i know. Not a fan.
Nilsson is major enough imo
I'm very pro-novelty songs on the whole fwiw

I guess Frank Zappa's Valley Girl doesn't count, since he's kinda a novelty artist already?

Nilsson is a much "bigger" act than zevon (commercially, and in terms of influence)

Strongly disagree.

Nilsson is a much "bigger" act than zevon (commercially, and in terms of influence)

Is this true? I've never bothered to look into him but he's always felt to me like Graham Parker - someone a subset of rock critics collectively decided to give a shit about for a few years in the '70s, who nobody even remembers anymore. (Sort of also true of Zevon, but his partisans kept on pushing him well into the '90s, and then he got sick and got canonized. And he actually has a bunch of songs I like.)

Automatic thread bump. This poll is closing tomorrow.

I'm a millenial,he's popular with people I know. The commercial success is easily verified by a quick google. I only heard of Graham parker for the first time a year or two ago and I am from the uk and like pub rock lol

Also see warren zevon vs nilsson on spotify plays,YouTube views etc.

Nilsson has double the monthly plays on spotify

Schmilsson is considered a canon album or whatever, I’ve never seen Graham Parker on a list of anything

(American)

Graham parker is beyond marginal

Is this true? I've never bothered to look into him but he's always felt to me like Graham Parker - someone a subset of rock critics collectively decided to give a shit about for a few years in the '70s, who nobody even remembers anymore. (Sort of also true of Zevon, but his partisans kept on pushing him well into the '90s, and then he got sick and got canonized. And he actually has a bunch of songs I like.)

LOL I actually thought you were talking about Warren Zevon there!

Don't know much about Warren Zevon, he appears to be a good songwriter, from the two or three songs I've heard, and I really like the Turtles' song "Outside Chance" which he wrote but... well, that sums it up, in my experience he's not someone who is on many people's radar in the UK. Harry Nilsson, on the other hand, has two incredibly well known songs that even people who don't know much about music know - much much more well known than anything Randy Newman's ever recorded. I'm pretty sure if I was going to work on Monday and I had a conversation with work colleagues a few would have heard of Harry Nilsson, not many would have heard of Randy Newman and I doubt any would have heard of Warren Zevon! Let's chalk this up as yet another US/UK thing.

Anyway, first to two songs here are garbage, the next two are good-to-great. Voted "Short People".

I must have gotten lost too--I was arguing that Zevon had greater stature than Nilsson, nothing to do with Graham Parker one way or the other. Anyway, as someone else pointed out, Nilsson's biggest hit, "Without You," wasn't a novelty song.

The novelty of this poll quickly wore off.

Not sure what you mean by stature? I was slightly amazed to see Warren Zevon described as a major American pop artist, but I suppose he might be in the US.

Over here, I think Nilsson's fame goes as follows: 1) friend/drinking buddy of John Lennon's, 2) one #1 album with a #1 song, 3) "Everybody's Talkin'." Not negligible, but I don't think, long-term, equal to the regard for Zevon (who sort of became the rock-critic-sanctioned pushback against all the late-'70s L.A. stuff scorned by critics at the time). Which was, it's true, elevated by his early death.

I think Zevon is probably viewed as a major artist by other musicians more than by the public.

You know what's missing from this poll?

Johnny Cash, "A Boy Named Sue".

Damn...I think that definitely qualifies.

Count me as one American who assumed Nilsson was much better known/influential than Warren Zevon. Nilsson had a bunch of Top 40 hits, Zevon had one, "Werewolves." Critics don't make Top 40 hits, so that line about "a subset of rock critics" applies much more to Zevon, I'd say. Even if Nilsson had only done the Midnight Cowboy song he might be better known. And now young people know him from the Russian Doll TV show as well.

Also, Nilsson has been rediscovered by millennials, Zevon has not (despite his fans constantly pushing for it). You can buy Nilsson albums in Barnes & Noble now, that says something.

It's an interesting question--maybe I'm off here. Had a similar disagreement once about who was more famous, Suicide or the Shoes.

My gateway was from that cover album of “Pussycats” the Walkmen did.

(xp) I really hope you said Suicide!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Opz_drg1O8

I would wager that as many people know “You’ve Got a Friend in Me” as any of Nilsson’s songs.

voted "short people" narrowly over "werewolves," the other two get old reeeeeally fast.

imho nilsson is definitely a bigger artist than zevon for the chart-performance reasons others have cited, but to be clear, neither of them, or newman, are remotely at the level of chuck berry or bob dylan in terms of prominence. that's okay tho - the thread doesn't call for airtightness or comprehensiveness the way, say, the "every huge artist" clause of the New Jersey threads does.

Yeah, it was just a spur of the moment thing. I do wish I'd thought of Johnny Cash, who sits in the space between Berry/Dylan at the pinnacle and Newman/Zevon somewhere below,.

Sorry I had to bring up Johnny Cash but it had to be done!

I would wager that as many people know “You’ve Got a Friend in Me” as any of Nilsson’s songs.

Do they know who sang it though?

I tried to troll vote but I don't think it's possible on this poll.

The only Warren Zevon song I've heard is the one listed here. I should probably remedy that but at least in my world of suburban-ish southern americans he was an unknown. Not that Nilsson was anything more either, but "Coconut" reached me by osmosis the same way "Werewolves of London" did.

Do most people know who sang without you or line in the coconut?

Lime that is

"Coconut" I don't know about, I don't think it was a hit single, but "Without You" I would assume so.

"Coconut" was featured on The Muppet Show, which is how little kid me knew the song.

Point of Zevon/Nilsson intersection: two famous Scorsese scenes, "Werewolves" in The Color of Money and "Jump Into the Fire" in Goodfellas. Independent of the who's-more-famous question (if anything, it's another thing on Nilsson's resume I'd forgotten), I think many more people would identify Zevon with "Werewolves" than would know who sings the weird echo-ey thing from the helicopter montage in Goodfellas.

I didn't know either of those songs were in either of those films tbh. I've only saw "The Color of Money" once though.

did “jump in the fire” get classic rock radio play? Feels like I heard it a million times before I knew who did it. I’ve only seen Goodfellas once.

maybe it was like a Wayne’s World/BoRap thing?

The "Werewolves" scene, for me, is one of Scorsese's greatest.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fsAE2jFPqLw

Not a film I've ever had any great urge to re-watch.

Not sure about "Jump in the Fire." I'd had Nilsson Schmilsson for years when Goodfellas came out, but I bought it for the two hits and never played the whole album much, so when I first saw the film, I had it in my mind that "Jump Into the Fire," which I didn't recognize, must have been "Memo from Turner," which I spotted in the credits and didn't know either.

I actually came to know “werewolves of London” via David Lindsey’s version... “his hair was very very greasy”

lindley (dad was a fan)

In the Kidz Bop version, they sing, “A little old lady got quite a scare the other night...”

Automatic thread bump. This poll's results are now in.

Re-run with "A Boy Named Sue".

That was my idea too--maybe just here, informally. "Werewolves" or "A Boy Named Sue"?

I like "Sue," but "Werewolves" for me.

I love the David Lindley version.

Something that made me laugh: I mentioned this poll to some friends, we got talking about it, and we realized that Ray Stevens' biggest hit was a non-novelty song, "Everything Is Beautiful."

Re-run with "A Boy Named Sue".

― The Fields o' Fat Henry (Tom D.), Saturday, July 4, 2020 7:41 PM (one month ago) bookmarkflaglink

speaking of novelty hits, I just head "Dawn of Correction" (#36, 1965) by the Spokesmen, an answer record to "Eve of Destruction" performed by guys who wrote "At the Hop" "You Don't Own Me" "Rock'n'Roll is Here to Stay" etc. Very neolib lyrics:

You tell me that marches won't bring integration
But look what it's done for the voter registration
Be thankful our country allows demonstrations
Instead of condemnin', make some recommendations

You missed all the good in your evaluation
What about the things that deserve commendation?
Where there once was no cure, there's vaccination
Where there once was a desert, there's vegetation
Self-government's replacing colonization
What about the Peace Corp. organization?
Don't forget the work of the United Nations

A playlist I was listening to just reminded me of this piece of crap, which I thought might belong in this thread:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sFacWGBJ_cs

Turns out, it was a hit nearly everywhere but the US: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shaddap_You_Face#Charts

A rare way to go, America from me, then!

A Czech interpretation written by Zdeněk Borovec, "Já na bráchu blues", performed by Helena Vondráčková and Jiří Korn, was a hit in Czechoslovakia in 1981.

I guess I could have included Loudon Wainwright's "Dead Skunk" in this...Definitely his biggest/only hit. Did he have other vaguely similar songs, though? Wasn't this more typical of him than the the four listed songs were of their artists?

No one even brought it or him up...maybe Wainwright misses on the "major artist" stipulation. Don't think he crossed my mind at the time, and maybe that's why. But I'm not ruling him out.

I wouldn't put Harry Nilsson with these four guys.

wouldn't put Zevon with 'em either, but would put Nilsson ahead of Zevon

If anyone had asked me what Nilsson's best known novelty song was, I would have guessed "You're Breakin' My Heart". It wasn't as big a radio hit back in the day as "Coconut" for obvious reasons, but today it pulls almost as many streams.

I've somehow never heard "Dead Skunk" on the radio. At least three of his songs have been streamed more ("The Swimming Song", "Daughter", and "Lullaby"), none of which I've ever heard on the radio either. The only LWIII i can recall hearing on the radio was "I Wish I Was a Lesbian" (or whatever it's called) which is at least as much a novelty song as "Dead Skunk".

I never thought of "Rainy Day Women" as a novelty song at all.

"novelty song" is obviously a slippery term, but one other you might have considered would be "we didn't start the fire" (tied w/"still r&r to me" atop billy joel's billboard hit list), which i once might have thought as an embarrassment, or maybe just an annoyance, but which i have grown to unabashedly love.

It is, ditto "major"--kind of an intuitive poll, probably sparked by me getting tired of (and baffled by) "Rainy Day Women" always getting knocked. Dylan and Berry and Newman are inarguably major; "My Ding-a-Ling" and "Short People" are inarguably novelty songs. Anything else is subjective.