should "Lean On Me" replace "The Star-Spangled Banner" as the US national anthem?

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inspired by this LA Times piece, which makes a comprehensive case both for "Lean on Me" and against "TSSB"

Bill Withers’ 1972 soul ballad may seem like a curious choice. It has none of the qualities we associate with national anthems. It’s a modest song that puts on no airs. It speaks in plain musical language, without a trace of bombast, in a tidy arrangement that unfolds over a few basic chords. It doesn’t march to a martial beat or rise to grand crescendos. The lyrics hold no pastoral images of fruited plains or oceans white with foam, no high-minded invocations of liberty or God. “Lean on Me” is a deeply American song — but it’s not, explicitly at least, a song about America.

Yet it has long been a kind of national anthem. “Lean on Me” is one of just a handful of songs to have reached No. 1 on the Billboard pop charts in two different versions. (Withers’ original hit No. 1 in 1972; 15 years later, Club Nouveau took a spunky electro-R&B version to the top of the Hot 100.) It is surely among the most widely sung American songs of the past half-century. It is performed by church choirs, by school choirs, by college a capella groups, by street-corner doo-wop quintets, by YouTube’s bedroom balladeers, by the United States Navy Band. It’s ecumenical, transcending genres and eras and generations and political affiliations. It has been covered by Stevie Wonder and Al Green and Clara Ward, by Jimmy Buffett and Bon Jovi, by Shawn Mendes and Nick Jonas. Jazz pianists have swung it, Imagine Dragons have mauled it. It’s been sung on “Empire” and on “Glee”; it was the theme song to a Morgan Freeman movie called, yes, “Lean on Me.”

It is the kind of song that gets dragged out on heady occasions, to impart a sense of significance and solemnity. It was performed by Mary J. Blige at the Lincoln Memorial, in a concert marking President Obama’s inauguration. Sheryl Crow, Keith Urban, and, I regret to report, Kid Rock, performed it in 2010, on the “Hope for Haiti Now” earthquake relief telethon. Garth Brooks sang it, after a fashion, in a medley with “America the Beautiful,” at a 2011 Kennedy Center gala whose attendees included four former U.S. presidents.

please try to honor the poll options and not get bogged down by whether or not america should exist (in our respective hearts we hold our answers)

Poll Results

OptionVotes
no, we should keep "the star-spangled banner" because it's bad and america deserves it 16
yes 15
no, we should keep "the star-spangled banner" because I think it's good, actually 7
no, it should be (suggest song) instead 6


k*r*n koltrane (Simon H.), Wednesday, 15 July 2020 14:49 (five years ago)

i'd actually be jazzed to stand for the thing for once

Lady Antibody (Neanderthal), Wednesday, 15 July 2020 14:52 (five years ago)

no, we should keep "the star-spangled banner" because I think it's good, actually
no, we should keep "the star-spangled banner" because it's bad and america deserves it

my opinion lies somewhere between these two

trapped out the barndo (crüt), Wednesday, 15 July 2020 14:52 (five years ago)

Having difficulty imagining singing "Lean On Me" - great as it is - before a Pirates game

Paul Ponzi, Wednesday, 15 July 2020 14:53 (five years ago)

voted 'keep, it's good' - I'm British and we need to sort our own house out (with Jerusalem obv) before sniping at America's perfectly good anthem - TSSB has a MUCH better development/climax/resolution than GSTQ, musically speaking, and I don't see what's so bad about it. Lean On Me has too much sadness and pathos, it's an anthem for truly the end of the world, which this ideally isn't

imago, Wednesday, 15 July 2020 14:53 (five years ago)

keep "the star-spangled banner" because some song has to be butchered at every sports event and it might as well be that one

jmm, Wednesday, 15 July 2020 14:53 (five years ago)

It speaks in plain musical language, without a trace of bombast, in a tidy arrangement that unfolds over a few basic chords. It doesn’t march to a martial beat or rise to grand crescendos.

this writer truly does not understand what an anthem is

imago, Wednesday, 15 July 2020 14:54 (five years ago)

the writer makes clear that these qualities are what makes it an unorthodox choice!

k*r*n koltrane (Simon H.), Wednesday, 15 July 2020 14:56 (five years ago)

America's anthem is a British drinking song w/ new words, we need a better one

Lady Antibody (Neanderthal), Wednesday, 15 July 2020 14:57 (five years ago)

^^gets it

k*r*n koltrane (Simon H.), Wednesday, 15 July 2020 14:57 (five years ago)

maybe a T-Pain song with lyrics fitted from one of our less racist Founding fathers?

Lady Antibody (Neanderthal), Wednesday, 15 July 2020 14:57 (five years ago)

I'm appalled by how much I loved that Club Nouveau version as a kid.

nashwan, Wednesday, 15 July 2020 14:58 (five years ago)

i mean could you imagine what kind of people we'd have to be surrounded by if this were even remotely possible? beautiful people instead of ugly, evil people. never going to happen.

carin' (map), Wednesday, 15 July 2020 14:59 (five years ago)

xpost I didn't realize that wasn't the original version until my dad's eyes bugged out when I said that thought out loud.

Lady Antibody (Neanderthal), Wednesday, 15 July 2020 15:00 (five years ago)

fine, i guess the writer does understand what an anthem is...so why not find another one that fits those criteria, haha

imago, Wednesday, 15 July 2020 15:01 (five years ago)

never going to happen.

this is a poll about what should be not what could be!

k*r*n koltrane (Simon H.), Wednesday, 15 July 2020 15:01 (five years ago)

How about “Lovely Day” but instead of “Lovely Day” it’s drunken frat boys chanting “U-S-A, U-S-A, U-S-A...”

Philip Nunez, Wednesday, 15 July 2020 15:03 (five years ago)

all the drunken sports fans passing out trying to hold that note longer than their buddies would be a real spectacle, it's true

k*r*n koltrane (Simon H.), Wednesday, 15 July 2020 15:04 (five years ago)

https://ww.youtube.com/watch?v=mNUaAMMmp1c

neith moon (ledge), Wednesday, 15 July 2020 15:07 (five years ago)

damnit

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mNUaAMMmp1c

neith moon (ledge), Wednesday, 15 July 2020 15:07 (five years ago)

it occurs to me that a decent working definition of 'liberal' could be 'loves nationalism when it comes down to it tbh'

carin' (map), Wednesday, 15 July 2020 15:07 (five years ago)

map otm

I think "The Star-Spangled Banner" is a good tune (I know that's a controversial opinion). It's definitely militaristic and nationalistic but that's the point of having a national anthem in the first place. "Lean On Me" is one of the best songs ever and it's thoroughly American as a song, but I don't think America has earned it as an anthem. Maybe if we were consistently a nation of sentimental liberals who have each other's back, which we're not.

trapped out the barndo (crüt), Wednesday, 15 July 2020 15:08 (five years ago)

xpost

trapped out the barndo (crüt), Wednesday, 15 July 2020 15:08 (five years ago)

it occurs to me that a decent working definition of 'liberal' could be 'loves nationalism when it comes down to it tbh'

― carin' (map), Wednesday, 15 July 2020 15:07 (one minute ago) bookmarkflaglink

this aimed at me? i'm speaking purely musically here. yes the sentiments are beautiful but it isn't a feasible anthem? imagine 'imagine' was the uk anthem lol

imago, Wednesday, 15 July 2020 15:10 (five years ago)

and yeah a working definition of 'liberal' is 'can get behind the sentiments in 'lean on me''

imago, Wednesday, 15 July 2020 15:11 (five years ago)

"Lean On Me" is incredible, but would be damaged and flattened out if made official and forced into all these other contexts where the anthem shows up. whereas somehow i think "This Land Is Your Land" could survive.

Doctor Casino, Wednesday, 15 July 2020 15:12 (five years ago)

I don't hate The Star-Spangled Banner as a song, but the whole point of national anthems, like nations, is that they're for dicks, which is why Lean On Me or any other song of tender humanity would be wrong

Mein Skampf (Noodle Vague), Wednesday, 15 July 2020 15:13 (five years ago)

Crut already made my point, lol sorry

Mein Skampf (Noodle Vague), Wednesday, 15 July 2020 15:15 (five years ago)

My nomination despite the Britishness

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eBGc5h1yWHQ

Paul Ponzi, Wednesday, 15 July 2020 15:17 (five years ago)

Replace it with "Slumerican Shitizen"

Lady Antibody (Neanderthal), Wednesday, 15 July 2020 15:17 (five years ago)

if america remade itself according to the principles of "lean on me," sure

star spangled banner sucks and we've earned it

mellon collie and the infinite bradness (BradNelson), Wednesday, 15 July 2020 15:18 (five years ago)

lol in the recent series of 13 Reasons Why they ended the, like, tensest episode of all with Melt The Guns and it was the worst closing-credits music choice in TV history

imago, Wednesday, 15 July 2020 15:19 (five years ago)

Lean On Me has too much sadness and pathos, it's an anthem for truly the end of the world

whut

mellon collie and the infinite bradness (BradNelson), Wednesday, 15 July 2020 15:20 (five years ago)

"No Thugs In Our House" perhaps closer to the pulse of the American psyche

Doctor Casino, Wednesday, 15 July 2020 15:21 (five years ago)

i just have this vision of the citizens huddling together in their caves by candlelight singing 'lean on me' as the radiation sickness picks them off one by one

imago, Wednesday, 15 July 2020 15:21 (five years ago)

Easier to imagine the end of the world than a society based on siblinghood

Mein Skampf (Noodle Vague), Wednesday, 15 July 2020 15:22 (five years ago)

anthems are for sports events and occasions of pomp and circumstance; they don't really matter but they are intended to amp up glory rather than celebrate siblinghood; if they can do both, more's the better. anthems don't really matter at the end of it and they don't really have any impact on society, but it is a fun question to think about

imago, Wednesday, 15 July 2020 15:25 (five years ago)

ITT some people show they didn't follow the whole "did you know there's a verse in the Star-Spangled Banner that celebrates slavery" controversy

anyway, I already recorded the real national anthem:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vA9UnZUKveY

shout-out to his family (DJP), Wednesday, 15 July 2020 15:26 (five years ago)

^^^^ goddamn

mellon collie and the infinite bradness (BradNelson), Wednesday, 15 July 2020 15:27 (five years ago)

Lean On Your Bootstraps

Well, that's a fine howdy adieu! (Old Lunch), Wednesday, 15 July 2020 15:28 (five years ago)

Easier to imagine the end of the world than a society based on siblinghood

which is why my backup in case "Lean on Me" falls through is "Kill the Poor"

k*r*n koltrane (Simon H.), Wednesday, 15 July 2020 15:30 (five years ago)

'lift every voice and sing' would be a way better choice than 'lean on me'. agreed (and great performance obv)

imago, Wednesday, 15 July 2020 15:30 (five years ago)

ITT some people show they didn't follow the whole "did you know there's a verse in the Star-Spangled Banner that celebrates slavery" controversy

I'm aware of the verse in the original poem on which the anthem is based.

trapped out the barndo (crüt), Wednesday, 15 July 2020 15:30 (five years ago)

Reveal Your Uncool Conservative Beliefs Here fodder but "The Star-Spangled Banner" > "Lean On Me" musically speaking.

Get the point? Good, let's dance with nunchaku. (Eric H.), Wednesday, 15 July 2020 15:30 (five years ago)

i didn't know about that verse :(

Mein Skampf (Noodle Vague), Wednesday, 15 July 2020 15:31 (five years ago)

why is there no option for "no anthems"

mellon collie and the infinite bradness (BradNelson), Wednesday, 15 July 2020 15:31 (five years ago)

Give me mandatory disco sing-a-longs or give me death.

Get the point? Good, let's dance with nunchaku. (Eric H.), Wednesday, 15 July 2020 15:32 (five years ago)

Give me mandatory disco sing-a-longs or give me death.

― Get the point? Good, let's dance with nunchaku. (Eric H.), Wednesday, 15 July 2020 15:32 (twenty-one seconds ago) bookmarkflaglink

'i feel love' can be yours, and 'left to my own devices' ours, and everyone wins

imago, Wednesday, 15 July 2020 15:33 (five years ago)

/remembers that Eric H is Canadian, not USAmerican

imago, Wednesday, 15 July 2020 15:34 (five years ago)

anyway, I already recorded the real national anthem:

Don't mean to embarrass you here but this is not actually an embed of 'Bring Out The Katz'

nashwan, Wednesday, 15 July 2020 15:35 (five years ago)

?

Feel a million filaments (Sund4r), Saturday, 1 August 2020 17:51 (five years ago)

The only reason it has a 'wide range' is because of the registral shift, which can easily be left out without changing anything in the key or harmony. Some notated versions already do this:
https://s3.amazonaws.com/halleonard-pagepreviews/HL_DDS_12696710WwyADl52k.png

I voted keep SSB bc good btw; just don't agree that it would not be harder to sing.

Feel a million filaments (Sund4r), Saturday, 1 August 2020 17:58 (five years ago)

Yeah there's really no reason to sing the first verse in the same octave as Bill does - indeed, when I play it, I do all the verses the same way. But I am not like a muso dude who knows things

Gin and Juice Newton (Ye Mad Puffin), Saturday, 1 August 2020 18:14 (five years ago)

song has a much greater impact starting in the lower octave, then jumping, for the first chorus.

XVI Pedicabo eam (Neanderthal), Saturday, 1 August 2020 18:19 (five years ago)

Surely but it seems like it would be much easier to adapt for amateur group singing.

Feel a million filaments (Sund4r), Saturday, 1 August 2020 18:32 (five years ago)

It’s definitely harder to sing just because there is a lot more going on melodically; the question was “aren’t the intervals trickier” and my answer is “not really, there are just more of them”

shout-out to his family (DJP), Saturday, 1 August 2020 19:09 (five years ago)

Haha OK

Feel a million filaments (Sund4r), Saturday, 1 August 2020 19:17 (five years ago)

itt: several incredibly accomplished, knowledgeable, well-trained, and talented musicians exhibit very little sympathy for non-musicians

pizzagnostic (Ye Mad Puffin), Saturday, 1 August 2020 19:41 (five years ago)

and then I posted some stuff too don't forget

XVI Pedicabo eam (Neanderthal), Saturday, 1 August 2020 19:57 (five years ago)

you are a very good singer tho

pizzagnostic (Ye Mad Puffin), Saturday, 1 August 2020 20:00 (five years ago)

aw thanks. tbh i wasn't knocking what you said re: starting up an octave. it's just not my personal choice if I was singing it, but...you had a good point!

i'm mostly just catty about people who sing the anthems at sporting events but only cos I'm secretly jealous that I haven't been asked to do it yet!

XVI Pedicabo eam (Neanderthal), Saturday, 1 August 2020 20:05 (five years ago)

seven months pass...

A worthy addition to the anthem canon:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vga0M4ia5Mc

Hello Nice FBI Lady (DJP), Monday, 1 March 2021 16:51 (four years ago)

lmao

mellon collie and the infinite bradness (BradNelson), Monday, 1 March 2021 16:57 (four years ago)

star spangled banner shreds

mellon collie and the infinite bradness (BradNelson), Monday, 1 March 2021 16:57 (four years ago)

I like it with the accompaniment even better

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hf0dcMH4N5U

Josh in Chicago, Monday, 1 March 2021 17:10 (four years ago)

i found my new favorite genre of music.

Totally different head. Totally. (Austin), Monday, 1 March 2021 18:29 (four years ago)

cpac strangled banner

Blick, Bils & Blinky • Let's Skip The Shaker Intros (breastcrawl), Monday, 1 March 2021 23:00 (four years ago)

let’s call em “red notes” from now on

Blick, Bils & Blinky • Let's Skip The Shaker Intros (breastcrawl), Monday, 1 March 2021 23:04 (four years ago)

Sung in the key of Q flat.

Josh in Chicago, Monday, 1 March 2021 23:18 (four years ago)

“Tomorrow Belongs To Meme”

mike t-diva, Monday, 1 March 2021 23:50 (four years ago)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JqEp-NMeMF8

mellon collie and the infinite bradness (BradNelson), Wednesday, 3 March 2021 21:07 (four years ago)

freeeee EEEeeeeeeeeee

mellon collie and the infinite bradness (BradNelson), Wednesday, 3 March 2021 21:07 (four years ago)

hahahahaha I knew just from the text which accompaniment video you had posted

Hello Nice FBI Lady (DJP), Wednesday, 3 March 2021 21:18 (four years ago)

AMERICA UNCANCELED ok lol

Blick, Bils & Blinky • Let's Skip The Shaker Intros (breastcrawl), Wednesday, 3 March 2021 21:33 (four years ago)

these guys are also great just from a "how did they sing this with a straight face" standpoint

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AQ-O72WMRKo

Hello Nice FBI Lady (DJP), Wednesday, 3 March 2021 21:35 (four years ago)

jute gyte would approve

stimmy stimmy yah (Simon H.), Wednesday, 3 March 2021 21:44 (four years ago)

nine months pass...

chic “everybody dance”

STOCK FIST-PUMPER BRAD (BradNelson), Thursday, 30 December 2021 18:01 (three years ago)

earth wind and fire “sing a song”

STOCK FIST-PUMPER BRAD (BradNelson), Thursday, 30 December 2021 18:06 (three years ago)

most of the songs playing at this airport bar would qualify as great new national anthems to me

STOCK FIST-PUMPER BRAD (BradNelson), Thursday, 30 December 2021 18:06 (three years ago)

Most EW&F songs would be great new national anthems.

Max Hamburgers (Eric H.), Thursday, 30 December 2021 18:10 (three years ago)

otm

STOCK FIST-PUMPER BRAD (BradNelson), Thursday, 30 December 2021 18:12 (three years ago)

two years pass...

dying at the CPAC rendition upthread which I somehow missed. holy shit.

CEO Greedwagon (Neanderthal), Monday, 15 April 2024 14:46 (one year ago)

It’s incredible

Cemetry Gaetz (DJP), Monday, 15 April 2024 15:51 (one year ago)

three months pass...

welp, the anthem is officially dead

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/10128419-mlb-fans-react-to-viral-national-anthem-video-ahead-of-2024-home-run-derby

rick beato meato manifesto (Neanderthal), Tuesday, 16 July 2024 02:32 (one year ago)

i checked other live performances of her original songs and they're nothing like this, but the signs are there, she frequently pushes her larynx up and wavers off pitch, seems they autotune her a lot on record

rick beato meato manifesto (Neanderthal), Tuesday, 16 July 2024 02:46 (one year ago)

I watched this right before bed and kept my partner up for about 10 minutes with hooting laughter

Methuselah/Van Winkle ‘24 (DJP), Tuesday, 16 July 2024 09:45 (one year ago)

Did she record this backwards?

Mark G, Tuesday, 16 July 2024 09:56 (one year ago)

Best comment: "Tough week to be an ear in America."

Tough week to be an ear in America. https://t.co/V9JfYSr12L

— The Food Manufacturing Guy (@TipOfTheBanana) July 16, 2024

Millennium Falco (Ye Mad Puffin), Tuesday, 16 July 2024 12:04 (one year ago)

AI not quite there yet.

il lavoro mi rovina la giornata (PBKR), Tuesday, 16 July 2024 12:12 (one year ago)

let this be another nail in the coffin for this style of singing please

dyl, Tuesday, 16 July 2024 12:58 (one year ago)

Unfortunately I don’t think bad singing is going anywhere

Methuselah/Van Winkle ‘24 (DJP), Tuesday, 16 July 2024 14:08 (one year ago)

of course they included a singing expert in the article saying "well this is difficult, this particular stadium has poor acoustics".

that would make sense if like, you were harmonizing with other people, singing with accompaniment that you could barely hear as you didn't have an inner ear monitor, or had an inner ear monitor blaring your own voice with a split second delay (which yeah, would fuck you up). but if you're singing an anthem a capella, like, how loud you can hear yourself or not is irrelevant, you're not supposed to adjust the way you sing based on how well you can hear yourself. by the time you hear your own voice, the sound has already been produced, it's too late to fix. you're supposed to use the same placement/technique regardless, overcompensating is a mistake karaoke singers make, not professionals. plus, your pitch is your pitch, again...once you hear your own voice, whatever came out has already been heard by everyone, if it was wrong, you can't go back and fix it. you shouldn't require to hear yourself loudly to stay on pitch. the Beatles couldn't hear shit at the Hollywood Bowl and managed to harmonize with each other.

(though as I mentioned above, harmonizing a different thing, as you're listening to how you fit in with the other voices, which does require being able to hear)

rick beato meato manifesto (Neanderthal), Tuesday, 16 July 2024 14:25 (one year ago)

otm, plus if you really really need to hear yourself, there's also the highly complex, elite-level technique of holding a finger up to one ear. but not sure a 4x grammy nominee could be expected to master that though

waste of compute (One Eye Open), Tuesday, 16 July 2024 14:42 (one year ago)

my mother used to ask me why I was picking my ear when I sang barbershop

rick beato meato manifesto (Neanderthal), Tuesday, 16 July 2024 14:43 (one year ago)

I said "cos this music sucks"

rick beato meato manifesto (Neanderthal), Tuesday, 16 July 2024 14:44 (one year ago)

well it got sad :(

https://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/sports/who-is-ingrid-andress-home-run-derby-national-anthem-singer/5601196/

rick beato meato manifesto (Neanderthal), Tuesday, 16 July 2024 18:05 (one year ago)

https://i.redd.it/dgbbc4kyzwcd1.jpeg

papal hotwife (milo z), Tuesday, 16 July 2024 18:06 (one year ago)

That is both sad, and (in a way) refreshingly honest. She didn't blame having a cold, or the sound guy, or childhood trauma, or Jewish space aliens.

Millennium Falco (Ye Mad Puffin), Tuesday, 16 July 2024 22:13 (one year ago)

A pretty good “apology” note, I agree

Stockton Asparagus Festival (morrisp), Tuesday, 16 July 2024 23:01 (one year ago)

golly it's almost like transparency is the best form of communication. (shockedpikachu.png)

on that note, good for her. whoda thunk that deflowering the national anthem could be such a great example.

interstellar anthropologist+music philosopher, (Austin), Wednesday, 17 July 2024 00:22 (one year ago)


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