Who were the Pete Bests of other groups?

Defined as the group member who was fired and replaced shortly before the group's commercial breakthrough.

Thought about this when reading Kathy Valentine's memoir, when she tells the story of taking over on bass for the Go-Go's on a minute's notice, which marked the end of the line for their original bassist Margot Olavarria. Within a few months the group signed with IRS Records and started recording their debut album which eventually went to #1.

Jason Everman and Chad Channing (Nirvana)

Glen Matlock, sort of?

Self XP Everman was also in Soundgarden for minute before they really got big.

I don't have the specifics, but iirc the Impressions had a couple extra singers who bailed shortly before their breakthrough single "Gypsy Woman" was recorded.

Belinda Carlisle just missed fame and fortune with the Germs and was never heard from again.

Lanier Greig & Dan Mitchell (ZZ Top)

Courtney Love and Faith No More

idk how much this counts but Eddie Jobson was briefly a member of Yes during the 90125 days but was replaced by Tony Kaye because they needed original members in order to continue calling themselves "Yes"

Has to be fired? I don't know if Stephen Duffy was fired or left Duran Duran before their debut

Yeah, my first thought was fired only, because there might be too many cases where people voluntarily left. But those cases are interesting as well.

Fella by the name of Dave Mustaine.

Keeping it to drummers:

John Rutsey - Rush
Richard Edson - Sonic Youth
Terry Chimes - The Clash
Misty Farrell - Sleater-Kinney

Would've thought Bob Bert for Sonic Youth

vini lopez - e street band
chuck johnson - superchunk

i don't think rutsey was fired, but i could be wrong

Mannheim, drummer of Mayhem, got replaced by legendary Hellhammer, and unfortunately wasn't around when album sales increased from 3 to 5

gary young - pavement

guitarist Henry Pandovi was fired from The Police a few months before "Roxanne" though maybe that doesn't count because he wasn't really replaced, Andy Summers was already in the band

this happens a lot in prog. Peter Banks and Tony Kaye from Yes, Anthony Phillips from Genesis, David O'List from The Nice, like a dozen dudes in Magma

John Mayhew of Genesis, since he was replaced on drums by Phil Collins.

Anthony Phillips quit, I think, cos he wanted to write 40 minute songs and not tour

Terry Chimes - The Clash

also, keith levine

Chris Stewart - Genesis

also Mick the Prick, who died tragically in the Battle of Epping Forest

Richard Hell x2: Television / Heartbreakers
not technically fired but pressured to leave
in the case of The Heartbreakers the rest of the band quit, then reformed without him!

Doug Sampson - Iron Maiden

Peter Laughner

good thread topic and OP Josefa, FPing everyone who just posts some name without even suggesting what band they were fired from, let alone adding a gentle seasoning of further context

I didn't know this, but Judy Dyble was fired from Fairport Convention and replaced by Sandy Denny.

Ian Stewart, Rolling Stones,

He was removed from the line-up in May 1963 at the request of manager Andrew Loog Oldham who felt he did not fit the band's image. He remained as road manager and pianist for over two decades and was posthumously inducted into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame along with the rest of the band in 1989.

Too old? Wyman was older. Too ugly? LOL it's the Stones.

David O’List left Roxy Music after an altercation with Paul Thompson. Was replaced by Phil Manzanera just before they recorded their debut.

Yeah, I was playing on it. https://t.co/9kLsUXNBJS

— Pete Best (@BeatlesPeteBest) July 16, 2020

Ian Stewart... Too old? Wyman was older. Too ugly? LOL it's the Stones.

Yes, he was far too healthy looking.

Kate Schellenbach of the Beastie Boys

It's not a very accurate comparison, but maybe Graham Simpson of Roxy Music?

(I'm kind of fascinated that Bryan Ferry's early band - the Gas Board- had Grham Simpson, film-director Mike Figgis and the record producer John Porter (The Smiths, Elvis Costello among many more). But there's very little information about them.

https://cdn1.umg3.net/464/files/2017/12/gas_board.jpg

Just before Bryan acquired his design, branding and style skills...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doug_Hopkins

Ron McGovney - original Metallica bassist

On further thought I am on the fence about whether Doug Hopkins is a Pete Best. Hopkins wrote the Gin Blossoms' biggest hits, was fired shortly before the band became famous, then (sadly) killed himself.

Now, if Pete Best had written "Love Me Do" and "I Wanna Hold Your Hand"...

Does Jack Irons count? Not that he hasn't had a good career, but he was in the Red Hot Chili Peppers before Chad Smith, and passed up being in early Pearl Jam (but later subbed with them at different periods).

Brian Jelliman
Diz Minnit
Mick Pointer

All casualties of the turbulent creative hothouse that was Marillion

why is it so often the drummer

arguably Bob Stinson

xp it's hard for a group who are starting out to find a good drummer, and it's easy for a group with a record contract to find a good drummer

Mick was ousted from Marillion in the same fashion as Pete Best, deemed not good/professional/studio capable enough to move forward with, although Mick managed to last a whole album before being sacked.

no one's said David Marks, the Beach Boy?

Marks at least enjoyed the success of several major hits before he left the group

There is Tony McCarroll, though he got a whole LP in first (and appeared in a music video getting buried by the rest of Oasis)

Reese Wynans, who was kicked out of the group that would become the Allman Brothers to make room for...Gregg Allman.

David Conway - My Bloody Valentine

Just imagine...The "Boom" Carter Seven.

Wally Nightingale, rather than Glen Matlock, is probably the Pete Best of the Sex Pistols ? (Founder member who was fired as he didn't “fit the image of the band” that McLaren had in mind)

The other four members of The Thompson Twins.

Accordingly, the other four members of the band were notified that the band was breaking up; they were each paid £500 and were allowed to keep their instruments and equipment in exchange for an understanding not to perform together under the name "Thompson Twins".

Gwen Stefani's older brother in No Doubt, who quit the band just before Tragic Kingdom started talking off.

This one was a near miss, but according to Chris Frantz's new book, David Byrne tried to kick Tina Weymouth out of the band just before they recorded the first album:
https://www.vulture.com/2020/07/chris-frantz-memoir-david-byrne-talking-heads-more.html

In a recent podcast, Britt Walford expressed disappointment that he was never asked back to drum for The Breeders after Pod & the first Safari EP session. He confidently assumed he was a member of the band at that point and was sad when Kim broke the news to him that he wasn't in the band anymore.

But as a positive, after being booted he immediately went back to work with Slint to write and record Spiderland.

ooh, I missed this:

Tanya Donelly (The Breeders)

― A True White Kid that can Jump (Granny Dainger), Tuesday, July 21, 2020 11:13 AM (ten hours ago)

Belly's "Feed The Tree" went to #1 on the USA Alternative charts, whereas "Cannonball" only made it to #2... That said I think Last Splash far outsold Star by a factor of Platinum vs. Gold. On the other hand, Belly received two Grammy nominations... Where am I going with this? I think Tanya did pretty well for herself and didn't necessarily miss out by leaving the Breeders.

“Near misses” is a probably a whole new thread. Bob Weir and Pigpen were almost kicked out of the Grateful Dead at one point.

Wally Nightingale, rather than Glen Matlock, is probably the Pete Best of the Sex Pistols ? (Founder member who was fired as he didn't “fit the image of the band” that McLaren had in mind)

― Luna Schlosser, Tuesday, July 21, 2020 10:47 PM (yesterday) bookmarkflaglink

Met them both down the 100 club. Well, it was a "Sex Pistols Convention" so it was well after the heyday, but. Oh, and John Peel the same night.

Bob Rusay was kicked out of Cannibal Corpse right before they did their cameo in Ace Ventura and recorded The Bleeding, their best selling album.

In a recent podcast, Britt Walford expressed disappointment that he was never asked back to drum for The Breeders after Pod & the first Safari EP session.

recall kim saying something about switching drummers after safari because his beats were "too dancey." which i thought sucked because i absolutely loved the baggy drum beats for safari and it remains my fave breeders song.

last splash is great and all, but it's a diff band basically.

Doug Sandom of The Who

― Irritable Baal (WmC), Tuesday, July 21, 2020 5:26 PM (yesterday) bookmarkflaglink

Doug ran into John Entwistle in 1978 just after Who Are You was released, but before Moon died. Entwistle signed a copy of the album for Doug, writing, "Where's your drum kit? We're desperate!"

recall kim saying something about switching drummers after safari because his beats were "too dancey." which i thought sucked because i absolutely loved the baggy drum beats for safari and it remains my fave breeders song.

― andrew m., Wednesday, July 22, 2020 11:12 AM (forty-eight minutes ago)

Bad phrasing on my part, every song on the Safari EP except "Safari" was played by Britt (recorded in late 1990 in NYC).

As for "Safari", that track was recorded a year or two later and by then Josephine's former bandmate Jon Mattock was the fill-in drummer:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xT6oZGThwis

woah! well i should've looked more closely at the credits. i guess both drummers belong on this thread.

"safari" also one of my fave videos.

Crystal Jones formed TLC and then was sacked right before they signed their contract. Ouch.

Dag Nilsen, bassist on Darkthrone’s “Soulside Journey”, a year before their big breakthrough second album.

Clive “Jesus Christ” Archer sang on the demo for the first Venom album, left just before recording.

Also there was guitarist Larry Wallis, who played on the first (shelved) Motorhead album “On Parole”, left before the official debut.

pretty much the entire original lineup of Iron Maiden I guess

And the rarer example of Tracii Guns, not only co-founder but also co-namer (with Axl Rose) of Guns n Roses.

yeah! that one is actually mega bizarre to me, I didn't know about that until a few years ago

gary young - pavement

More like Jason Fawkes - a Stockton guy who played drums on “Forklift” and a live radio session, but didn’t get along with Malkmus and was out.

Also Gary quit Pavement, he was not fired.

Tracii Guns quit gnr 2 months in, not "shortly before the group's commercial breakthrough."

Wikipedia says Gary Young was fired, for what that's worth

p. 126 of Perfect Sound Forever, as told by Bob Nastanovich:

https://i.imgur.com/Huw1DIk.png

Also (without quibbling over how the phrase “commercial breakthrough” applies to a band like Pavement) Gary played on a hugely celebrated and influential album of theirs... not quite a Pete Best situation?

morrisp raises (perhaps inadvertently) an interesting point; some of the bands mentioned in the thread may be questionable examples of commercial success

I can confirm that if I happen to raise an "interesting point," on any subject, it was purely inadvertent.

Tracii Guns quit gnr 2 months in, not "shortly before the group's commercial breakthrough."

― peace, man, Thursday, July 23, 2020 8:05 AM (nine hours ago) bookmarkflaglink

Another one that I don't think quite works for this thread, but I still want to mention here is Alain Johannes. Started a band, What Is This. The other 3/4s of his band do a one-off jokey side-project with their roadie Anthony Kiedis which morphs into the Red Hot Chili Peppers. Both bands get signed to major labels but are still struggling. After shuffling members back and forth for a few years, the key players all jump ship for the Chili Peppers, who begin to have enormous success while What Is This breaks up.

I’ve always wondered why Tracii Guns never insisted GnR change their name, I mean we never saw Paul Simon continue as “Simon & Garfunkel” after the split.

i always had this fantasy that when Halford rejoined Judas Priest that Ripper Owens would take his place in Halford and still call it Halford.

George Coleman -- Miles Davis' second classic quintet

Probably unfairly, since he's a great saxophonist, he's just not Wayne Shorter. And there's an anecdote (maybe apocryphal) that gets repeated a lot about Tony Williams not being into his playing because it was too square or traditional.

An example of the “inverse Pete Best” phenomenon was that Slash initially auditioned for Poison, got rejected, and then went back to his old friends Adler and Rose in GnR, ended up the bigger band.

Same with Kerry King who (after Show No Mercy!) almost joined Megadeth permanently, but in the end went back to Slayer.

Coleman probably got over it by the time he appeared in Freejack with Mick Jagger and Emilio Estevez.

(That really happened, btw.)

xp

xpost I kinda don't get how he'd have worked in Megadeth. he has technical ability but not much theory knowledge, and his noisy solos woulda probably driven Mustaine nuts. but then again, this was before they were doing Rust in Peace type stuff too.

Speaking of the Red Hot Chili Peppers, I think DH Peligro is their quintessential "Pete Best" figure.
He joined right when they were about to have a major commercial upswing and played on one of their
first singles to get significant radio airplay (not to mention being featured in SAY ANYTHING) but was
let go due to drugs (BTW, how bad do your problems have to be in order to be let go by THOSE guys?).
Now that I think about it, though, DeWayne McKnight also joined and split just before they started blowing up, too.

All this RHCP talk and no mention of Jack Irons who:

1. founded RHCP with childhood friends Flea & Hillel and then left after their first demo
2. was asked to be the Pearl Jam original drummer and turned that down as well (but in the process of declining, introduced Stone & Jeff to Eddie Vedder)

But Jack Irons drummed on UPLIFT MOFO. Plus, he played on two multiplatinum Pearl Jam records and left on his own accord. By no stretch
of the imagination is he a "Pete Best" figure

Eduardo Saverin the Pete Best of Social Media

I was thinking about this question tonight and it can also be reformulated to include frontmen such as Ian Curtis, Bon Scott, Syd Barrett and Peter Green. They are certainly not comparable to a Pete Best kind of character, as they did get to experience fame and success, but they were no longer part of the band when they reached their commercial peak.

That guy Bon Scott replaced in AC/DC.

Barbara Martin, the fourth Supreme who was on their initial, non-hit singles.

Well yeah Ac/Dc qualifies for both versions of this question. Dave Evans didn’t get any of the fame and fortune beforee he got replaced by Bon Scott, then, while Bon Scott did get a taste of success with the band before dying, it was his replacement Brian Johnson who reaped all the benefits by being the frontman of not only their most successful album, but one of the best selling records of all time.

In the top 10 best selling albums of all time there’s three missing a founding frontmen: back in black, dark side of the moon and rumours.

Patty Sullivan, who played bass for The Doors on their first demos.

... alongside Rick & Jim Manzarek.

Jefferson Airplane had several early members who didn't last (including Skip Spence), but I think a bassist named Bob Harvey was the only one who was fired (replaced by Jack Casady).

Interesting - there's a much older friend of mine whose girlfriend at the time 'had a scene' - as they called it then - with a self-described "ex-bass player of Jefferson Airplane", which my friend always thought likely to be BS. On further investigation, it seems it could therefore have been true and it was Bob Harvey. Apparently this guy played in an unsuccessful support band (Flame?) at the first of the free Hype Park concerts with Tyrannosaurus Rex in 1968 before going back to the US, so he did have some connections with the music world.

^Looks like Harvey was 30 in 1965... does the math work out? (He was an acoustic bass player from a bluegrass band.)

Here’s a quote exchange describing the end of his tenure with the Airplane*:

BOB HARVEY: The first hint was David Crosby coming into the Matrix and listening to us. When we got done with the song, he said, “Good song, but get rid of the fucking bass player.” That was clue number one.

DAVID CROSBY: Nah, I would never do that. Good story. Wrong.