Slop 'n' Edge in 1981: Black Flag's 'Damaged' vs Venom's 'Welcome to Hell'

I coincidentally revisited these two albums today only to realize that they both came out in 1981.

love both, but I'm always gonna vote Venom.

still, though, "Damaged I" is one of the greatest songs ever written, so it's not a runaway vic

I wish AlexinNYC was here to opine... I don't think he comes 'round here muchy these days, alas.

The Dez-sung Damaged is one of the greatest rock records of all-time:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G9r93m1KhMQ

AlexinNYC is def the apposite poster for these threads (and many others). Where'd he go?

xp

I'd have to go with Damaged but Welcome To Hell is such a great album - Angel Dust! In League With Satan! Sons of Satan! lots of bangers on that one. I like it better than Black Metal even

when I saw Venom 5 years ago (in January of 2020) they played almost all of those tunes. I do think I also prefer Welcome to Hell.

I agree that Welcome to Hell tops Black Metal, if only due to the stereotypically awesome guitar solo in 'One Thousand Days in Sodom', which serves more love imho.

*deserves, but it serves plenty of love too.

see it in... maniacs

Damaged 4eva

that FLAG tour of a few years back (2016 i think?),I pitted to a lot of the classic Damaged tunes. it was a great fountain of youth.

didn't even make it to the end of the actual Black Flag show I went to 10 years ago in February of 2020

Went with Venom to balance things out (by the looks of it) but the fact of the matter is that both are equally worthy in my book.

I fucking love both, although I'll concede that DAMAGED felt more important (I realize this is a truly rich adjective to use, here). I still remember the first time I heard "Rise Above" and it being a genuinely astonishing moment ("wow, these guys really fucking mean it!" etc.) I'll go with Black Flag, but that in absolutely no way diminishes my lifelong adoration for Venom.

Like you care.

I care...

Oh, sup.

Black Flag definitely top Venom in the perceived authenticity department.

I'll concede that "Rise Above" is a great song but otherwise this is Venom.

welcome to hell, my unpopular opinion is this would be a closer matchup if it were between welcome to hell and a later flag record

Yeah, but there's so much more than "Rise Above." "Six Pack"? "Thirsty & Miserable"? "Gimme Gimme Gimme"? "Spray Paint"? The record is unstoppable. Also, Henry's takes on "Depression" and "Police Story" are both entirely excellent.

To my mind, they would never be this good again.

were they mutually appreciative or was it just one way. I think BF dug Venom but not sure what Venom listened to .

Stuff like Motorhead

I've never even heard that Venom album, whereas Damaged was a soundtrack for me.

To my mind, they would never be this good again.

― Alex in NYC, Wednesday, September 9, 2020 8:52 AM (one hour ago)

...once Dez stopped singing.

to be fair, same could be said of Venom only an album later.

though I will say they had that one good album with Demolition Man in the 80s .

were they mutually appreciative or was it just one way. I think BF dug Venom but not sure what Venom listened to .

― Stevolende, Wednesday, September 9, 2020 11:33 AM (two hours ago) bookmarkflaglink

Rollins on Venom, from Get In the Van, after Black Flag opened for Venom in New Jersey in 1986:

Venom is weak. Everything about them is weak. They can’t even play. They had a bunch of roadies to do everything. Weak, weak, weak. I would love to play with fucking “heavy metal” bands more often. It was fun crushing them. It’s all lights and makeup. What bullshit. Venom suck. They are so full of shit. What a bad joke. They don’t sweat and they probably don’t even fuck.

This is consistently amazing - even better than you think it's gonna be:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4TztqYaemt0

Automatic thread bump. This poll is closing tomorrow.

"they probably don't even fuck"

What is that supposed to genuinely mean?

I think Venom probably liked Black Flag ... from a distance. But Black Flag hated everyone they played with (they really didn't like the Sisters of Mercy, I can tell you that).

Maybe he mistook them for straight edgers.

Black Flag hated everyone

who's trver, now?

i'll forever associate WtH with an older friend's selling point "it's going to scare the shit out of you". it did not. found it pretty funny and singalong actually. 11yo iirc and into maiden, helloween, that stuff. it took, later, South Of Heaven to convince me of the evil bs done right wrong. that cover alone!

i only heard of Black Flag and loved it years after beeing deep into the Rollins Band; which was just fundamental to me.

would pick any Black Flag over any Venom tbh

has anybody ever been scared by music?

other than Pat Boone's In a Metal Mood?

The Caretaker's six-part Everywhere at the End of Time, which documents the gruellingly slow breakdown of the human psyche in the face of Alzheimer's disease, gets kind of terrifying by the time you hit stage 4. Just one example in recent memory (hah). So maybe rock-derived genres are less frightening on average, even when they try their damnedest.

while tripping? of course!

xp

Automatic thread bump. This poll's results are now in.

Should've been way closer than that.

yeah fuck that skewing. shoulda been like 14-10, 13-11, 12-12

I did my part, and I stand by it.

KILL, WE WILL KILL DEATH
MASTURBATING ON THE DEEDS WE HAVE DONE

-"Louie, Louie"

Venom is weak. Everything about them is weak. They can’t even play. They had a bunch of roadies to do everything. Weak, weak, weak.

Greg Ginn's solos, time after time after time, are some of the worst music ever played. They're just a whole lot of nothing. This isn't a muso question -- they're just a boring mess.
Henry Rollins, who plays no instruments at all and is a giant poseur, is not really in a position to say who can play, though I'm sure he's a fine judge of who adheres to in-scene codes of cool.

Lol otm

I don’t really give a shit about black flag. venom are the fucking shit

I don’t know anything they did after At War With Satan, though, so Rollins might be not offtm there?

has anybody ever been scared by music?

other than Pat Boone's _In a Metal Mood_?

Very little great stuff after AWWS but Possessed 8s good

Greg Ginn's solos, time after time after time, are some of the worst music ever played. They're just a whole lot of nothing. This isn't a muso question -- they're just a boring mess.

Even if you grant this (which I don't; I think the messy noisy sprawling awfulness is the point), Ginn's riffs are better than Venom's, and so is his guitar sound.

Damaged is still BF being kind of ramonesy but with the guitar and bass getting messier.
THink it's only a bit l;ater taht the guitar splurge really takes over.
Do love teh 5 piece doing teh My War material but love the Kira group's version of heavy rock.
Do wish she;'d written her own basslines though. Not sure how a multi hour jam would sound or feel if you weren'' coming up with your own lines

black flag are better, and making messy noisy sprawling awfulness is kind of the entire point of punk rock

I don’t really give a shit about black flag. venom are the fucking shit

Prestigious take imo.

thraed already has the potential to be bumped every six months

Henry Rollins, who plays no instruments at all and is a giant poseur, is not really in a position to say who can play, though I'm sure he's a fine judge of who adheres to in-scene codes of cool.

lol'd but have to disagree JCLC--- idc about his venom quote, really; but solely going by who he worked with in the RB 87-97, also to an extent Mother Superior, Rollins ears the playas, imo

I voted Black Flag on this, but thinking back I wish there was a BF line-up combo that had both Kira and Chuck Biscuits.

Ginn's soloing through the My War era is some of my absolute favorite guitar playing. I do think he fell off pretty hard after that, though.

i like ginn's playing across the flag records even when it's stupid and bad

rollins however is full of shit and also totally misunderstands the appeal of venom

Would anyone's vote be different if we'd polled bands instead of debut LPs?

i would probably vote for black flag in that case but they changed my life at an impressionable age

Black Flag definitely has more range over their brief discography than Venom, or so I gather, since I sure as hell haven't heard the latter's in its entirety.

Venom kind of shot their wad in their first 3 LPs

the good stuff they did post AWWS was more following other trends of the moment than setting any. some of their recent stuff is listenable though.

but I liked the Venom, Inc album with Mantas and Abaddon better than the current Cronos incarnation. sadly, Venom Inc is down to only one orig member now.