rolling hip hop albums for people clearly doing it wrong

a bit of a 'thing' to start this thread on the site that taught me how wack so much backpacker/conscious rap of the late 90s/early 00s was, but this thread is the opposite of 'hip hop taken to new levels' and is for posting about the avant-garde in hip-hop, people working within the genre out of love and pushing it forward on its own terms rather than importing 'experimental' or 'serious' genres into it

i feel there has been a coalescing group of artists who straddle a sort of throwback-lofi approach but ... uh, take it to new levels. perhaps roc marciano has some influence and then of course earl, but for me the touchstone is the dr yen lo album. in terms of what is speaking to me now that i haven't seen a lot of on ILM is pink siifu - 'ensley', mach hommy - whatever you can a hold of really, but what i really am just looking for an excuse to post is this - hard as nails music sure to soundtrack my strolling through deserted covid-winter NYC

https://purpletapepedigree.bandcamp.com/album/an-unknown-infinite

Solid thread premise.

It's instrumental, but Material Girl's Tangram deserves a mention.

This Amani sounding p cool

I post the Griselda, Roc, etc stuff on the rolling thread, I've always tried to post backpacker stuff too, the new Blu & Exile is great

I guess my only thing is it seems hard to define

is Ka not experimental? where does say Armand Hammer type stuff fit?

that said I will probably like everything in this thread

though I worry there's not enough hip hop discussion these days to balkanize it

very pleased with the new Conway, feel like it reaches out of his zone in largely natural sounding ways

wish WSG would stop trying to make Armani Caesar a thing

Ka/Yen Lo is not very experimental I'd say - he has a clear method, albeit one that's his own. The idiosyncrasy is in the flow and delivery rather than the production with him

Amani album v cool, coming to the end of it, ty

https://www.complex.com/music/art-rap-2020

rather than importing 'experimental' or 'serious' genres into it

This is an interesting way of thinking about it -- it reminds me of "Third Stream" jazz whereby "serious" musicians tried to make a more "serious" jazz by bringing classical and european compositional approaches (which is sort of silly anyway because many jazz musicians had already formally or informally studied classical music and were already influenced by it, Charlie Parker loved Stravinsky, etc.). The result was sometimes interesting music but a bit of a dead end and generally not the most vibrant jazz. I don't think there is anything wrong with "importing" other genres and I don't accept the idea of a genre "on its own terms," but I agree the idea of importing other genres to make a music more "serious" is a dud.

I listen to Ka *a lot*.

Ka/Yen Lo is not very experimental I'd say - he has a clear method, albeit one that's his own. The idiosyncrasy is in the flow and delivery rather than the production with him

― imago, Tuesday, September 15, 2020 11:40 AM (six hours ago) bookmarkflaglink

Yeah but LJ your "experimental" has to have a beanie propeller hat and a t-shirt with a finger pointing up that says "I'm with an experimental artist"

ha well i think there is a paradox here (not just due to my poor prose) - since original hip hop was so experimental for its time, this sort of distilled-meta-throwback approach could be seen as trad, but then the blurry sonics and hyper-intimate lyrical approach takes on a novel quality that reminds me of when i first heard w-tang back in 93 and had my mind blown, in a way that a lot of 'boom bap' traditionalism doesnt. maybe this is a cringe comparison but it's sorta how 90s indie was both throwback to classic rock but new

glad you liked the amani, imago - short but bitter!

anyways pink siifu is the truth

https://ronee.bandcamp.com/album/ensley-2

not quite sure what the parameters of this thread are, but i think it does make sense to have a dedicated place to discuss things like mavi/milo/mavi/keiyaa/pink siifu/navy blue, and those guys.

i will say that i enjoyed ensley but siifu's negro album was nigh unlistenable

i hated this at first but then loved it, part of why i realized maybe there is something going on under the surface of what could be dismissed as "briefly trendy lo fi rap"

https://mikelikesrap.bandcamp.com/album/weight-of-the-world

xpost agreed on 'negro'! and part of the thread is, i think, working out the parameters ....

where does say Armand Hammer type stuff fit?

Wondering the same thing. Either way, Shrines is a 2020 highlight regardless of genre.

I love all the billy woods shit I've heard

Same, the man can do no wrong.

I reviewed that Amani album, while acknowledging my near total ignorance of contemporary hip-hop:

For a while, the last rapper I was still listening to seriously was Rick Ross, but eventually I lost interest in his music, too, and then I stopped paying attention to hip-hop almost entirely. So these days, it takes a lot for a hip-hop album to make it through to me. And my knowledge of the genre’s present-day landscape is basically nil. So when I praise a hip-hop album, it’s fair for the reader to assume that it’s because it speaks to me based on my particular tastes — that it’s old-school or out-of-time enough to reach a guy whose aesthetic is based on metal, industrial, and decades-old rap.

Maybe I should try to title the goon thread "Boring Street Rap" again and see what happens

back to the original post - i agree about the scene you're trying to articulate

i feel there has been a coalescing group of artists who straddle a sort of throwback-lofi approach but ... uh, take it to new levels. perhaps roc marciano has some influence and then of course earl, but for me the touchstone is the dr yen lo album.

however I think Roc Marciano's Marcburg is absolutely the ur-text of this whole scene and possibly the most influential underground rap album of the last 15 years...Griselda dudes, Mach Hommy, Anhkle John, all them are explicitly in his shadow

Ka is a great, and a peer of Roc, but Roc put him on in the spotlight as well and think he's one step too removed from convention to be as influential as Roc.

yeah that sounds right. not just the music but the independent spirit of Roc. which, again, is why i think it's a bit paradoxical to think of this as 'novel' when there is this throwback vibe, but again, with indie, perhaps a similar historical process of rock as youth culture commodified into big budget entertainment but then reacting against that with punk and post-punk, perhaps a similar ... uh, dialectic is taking place here, post trap and hip-hop taking rock's place. (i want to be careful and not imply that these artists somehow 'owe' anything to indie rock, just putting that there as a comparison)

registering my badge for the thread

xpost - honestly I think the parallel to indie rock is there, but I think Roc and then Westside took more inspiration from sneakers and streetwear, making their albums these limited release luxury albums (also nipsy hussle fits in charging $1000 for cds back in the day), like we aren't going to move units so lets make merch lifestyle stuff and charge 80-100 per record

i think the big differentiator between this and the wu-tang, mobb deep, cnn era it calls back to is that -- until recently with griselda -- it felt like this stuff had no ambitions that it would ever even get close to mainstream

though in fairness a lot has changed in the music biz since the 90s and that's probably a smarter business approach, building a "brand" not selling records

ctrl+f "art rap" and none found; am i drastically misunderstanding the thread concept?

"but this thread is the opposite of 'hip hop taken to new levels' and is for posting about the avant-garde in hip-hop, people working within the genre out of love and pushing it forward on its own terms rather than importing 'experimental' or 'serious' genres into it"

i think this explains it well

adam also posted that complex article about "art rap" upthread

hoist by my own boolean search habits

I’d say the mike is art rap but I think rap is always already complex multifaceted art, the sampling/composition poetry/music blurry antinomies have been there since day 1

does anybody have specific recs for Flee Lord? man's got like 12 releases on Spotify from just the last two years.

tony seltzer seems relevant here, although hard to keep up with

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nYF4kg9L9jI

Signor Benedick The Moor - El Negro (2013) is a colossal masterpiece by a then-20 genius kid that's never been mentioned once on ILX

https://sbthemoor.bandcamp.com/album/el-negro

This is on so many levels the real deal, and also genuinely one of the most genre-diverse albums I've ever heard. I am expecting listens and feedback

bump for truth

What does ILM make of Cities Aviv?

https://citiesaviv.bandcamp.com/album/the-crashing-sound-of-how-it-goes

I haven't heard it yet but it sounds intriguing on paper.

I came here to mention it, as discovered on RYM. cool album!

always liked this one a lot
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Aq7cVq1LGWM
Coastin' (2011)

the beats on this feel like J Dilla meets Daniel Lopatin

this has been a good year for people who like doing it wrong.

y'all should check out this yungmorpheus x ewonee project, blunted confessions with some social commentary spliced in: https://yungmorpheus.bandcamp.com/album/thumbing-thru-foliage

Pink Siifu's range on his latest is unbelievable.

Ka article in the New Yorker
https://www.newyorker.com/culture/listening-booth/the-last-underground-rapper

ok finally getting around to the armand hammer album, and the dub-inflected beat on "falling out the sky" ft. earl sweatshirt is a thing of beauty

lol i sent that to a 25 y.o. friend who likes to argue with me about hip hop as a "thing i'm listening to" and i got a stream of angry reaction gifs for like five mintues

ha, i might've given you that reaction for the way overrated paraffin

y'all should check out this yungmorpheus x ewonee project, blunted confessions with some social commentary spliced in: https://yungmorpheus.bandcamp.com/album/thumbing-thru-foliage

― the mai tai quinn (voodoo chili), Tuesday, April 27, 2021 10:34 AM (five months ago) bookmarkflaglink

yungmorpheus has another album out, a collab with lo-fi pop singer eyedress. pink siifu is the only guest. sounding pretty good, so far.

Only gave the most cursory of listens to the Armand Hammer. Digging that track now too, VC.

This weirdo album by Andrew Mbaruk & Th' Mole, somewhere between Armand Hammer and Anticon, definitely doing it wrong:

https://audiorecon.us/album/papier-m-ch-chalet

a lot of recs i need to check out, thx everyone.

relistened to mach hommy 'pray for haiti' today and its so good. also he has a new one out

this is also really good, if older, slightly different angle, but has the siifu connection, great vibes, a little more street lyrically

https://kryptonyte.bandcamp.com/album/kryptonyte

zeelooperz has been one of the more interesting rappers out, and i feel like he's best experienced in album form, so i'm posting here. his new album get wet.radio is a bit softer than usual–doesn't have much of the braying delivery that marks projects like his recent van gogh's left ear–but still lots of experimentation with flows, from gotit/keed-esque half-whispered triplets to drawly melody

it's short but packed with ideas, everyone should listen! https://zelooperz.bandcamp.com/album/get-wet-radio

some may enjoy doing it wrong on friday:

This Friday, @QuelleChris is dropping his new album "DEATHFAME" - it is the prequel to Kendrick Lamar's album and you won't understand anything on Kendrick's album unless you first listen to Quelle's album https://t.co/rfzGx2iyDW

— Mello Music Group (@MelloMusicGroup) May 9, 2022

certainly!

enjoying this
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rb8ml2M7ZYM

that's Your Old Droog's new single Mind Your Business

a lot of bars

new fatboi sharif out on PTP takes this sound into weirder territory, was already starting to feel sorta over the post Griselda revivalist thing but this is on another level

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ECvLMprZ-Eo

Lone Wolf Son of Cosmos, RIYL Killah Priest

just realized his flow reminds me of a third-eye-pilled Camp Lo

really cool instrumental

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eTfaR4IHDoo

that is cool, i'll check it out

could use an editior but that's kinda par for the course with this stuff

some recs for those who might like doing it wrong

navy blue - ways of knowing: soulful, sample-heavy, deeply personal rhymes from a guy who is probably better known for his producing. beats are by budgie, a british boom-bap enthusiast who reminds me a bit of exile

niontay - dontay's inferno: one of my favorite projects of the year so far, reminds me of a more abstract version of veeze or bandgang lonnie bands. signed to ny rapper mike's label, so there's a bit of that left-of-center energy. beats are great.

lavarr the starr - illusions ago: latest project by ish butler of shabazz palaces!

mentioned defprez - it's always a time like this in the main rap thread, good cerebral stuff

Defprez is soooo good. Defcee is def one of the best backpackers out there

I've known the other rapper (crashprez) for years, super good dude (and music writer), glad to see it's getting some traction.

he is really great too was not familiar with him before

i think that AKAI SOLO is someone doing it wrong in the specified way maybe? his style feels kinda unusual, like he's reeling off beat poetry rather than more standard hip hop bars a lot of the time. i can struggle to get on with him as easily as people like droog, WSG and others in this thread but i think his spirit roaming album was really good

https://akaisolo.bandcamp.com/album/spirit-roaming

yeah for sure. anything associated with the ptp label def counts

Chester Watson - fish don't climb trees is pretty great doing it wrong hip hop

David - Plum Whisky

another great album from the thriving chicago scene

https://dorchesterbully.bandcamp.com/album/plum-whisky

oops DAVIS

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CEX1JyVAgl4

different type time, the new album by the rapper cavalier, is a really great album. it's lyrical, but not quite as dense as many of the albums released by backwoodz artists, and he has an excellent ear for production. really funny too.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MQMFddBfl4c

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xCVGwez_qjQ

this one felt like a 2024 version of a song from common's resurrection

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JJoIGIKls8w

why posting on this thread? seems like he's doing everything right to my ears!

(ty for posting, this is great!)

I think the concept of this thread is that we olds prefer listening to albums (wrong) to scouring Youtube for what the kids are into (right)

lol forgot my sarcasm tags!

also vc-
i was kinda going in mad because of the resurrection comparison, but nah... that's very apt. i've never heard him before. playing the album now and it's... a lot to take in, but the beats are kind of a breath of fresh air.

yeah i've been digging Cavalier

I never know where to post my stuff on the rap thread or this, cuz technically most of what I post is doing it wrong but then it would just be voodoo (thank u for it all btw) stuff

i guess in my head this thread is specifically for arty, lyrical dudes who consciously shy away from the mainstream, but also aren't pure old man raps or nostalgia trips. artists like cavalier, elcuid, defcee, and the rest of the backwoodz roster, mike and the 10k crew (niontay, el cousteau), pink siifu and fly anakin, yung morpheus, maassai, etc.

trying to follow the spirit of uptown churl's original post

as for doing it wrong, the title was just a play on the "techno albums for people clearly doing it wrong" thread. tho this thread title would def be appropriate if there was more of a goon presence still on the board lol

xpost yeah that makes sense
in that spirit:

https://theshah.bandcamp.com/track/howmuchyabench

yeah, i was totally goofin re:thread title/"doing it wrong" but all that makes a lot of sense. i think we used to call this sort of thing "alternative hiphop" (which is admittedly v uncool). i kinda consider it in the spirit of the next generation of native tongues affiliates + followers... poor righteous teachers, bush babees, little brother, etc.

the last track -"flourish"- on that cavalier is so good. "i wanna thank all the academies. i don't even know em all, but i wanna thank em." pure heart and soul. thanks again for this rec.

i guess in my head this thread is specifically for arty, lyrical dudes who consciously shy away from the mainstream, but also aren't pure old man raps or nostalgia trips. artists like cavalier, elcuid, defcee, and the rest of the backwoodz roster, mike and the 10k crew (niontay, el cousteau), pink siifu and fly anakin, yung morpheus, maassai, etc.

trying to follow the spirit of uptown churl's original post

― the defenestration of prog (voodoo chili), Wednesday, April 24, 2024 11:42 AM (fifty-six minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

this was all stuff that was posted in the yearly rap threads btw

i think there's enough of a scene doing specifically what uptown churl asked about in this thread that it's worth cross-posting.

also, i post in this thread and people respond, i post in the other thread and no one responds ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

dude pfork gave that cavalier an 8