Instances where you can't separate the art from the artist. vs. instances where you can.

"Trust the art, not the artist" a smarter person than myself once said, and I find that it is a much easier concept in theory than actual application.

I think the most obvious case of being successful for me is with Miles Davis. Not very pleasant company, by most accounts. And yet, I find myself enjoying his music with each passing year. All those terrible accounts of him being a despicable person seem to just disappear when a record of his is playing. And I don't really have a reason for that other than that I really enjoy the music. Do I have any delusions of him being "oh, actually NOT like that at all!"? Not really. And I'm still able to look past it.

But with the recent discussion around a new Thurston Moore record being quite good and maybe his best work in quite some time, I just can't bring myself to listen to it because of how much I know about his personal life and non-music dealings. I have even tried to go back to older Sonic Youth albums in an attempt to rekindle old enthusiasm and I just can't enjoy them the same way I used to.

Why is this? Maybe it's because I sort of grew up with Sonic Youth and seeing how things fell apart so quickly and fantastically in real time was more immediate. With Miles, hearing about his personal shortcomings was like hearing about history or a folk tale — something that may have happened, sure, but it was in the past. . . almost intangible, just a half-truth, or something that could never happen again.

I'm not saying there is a right or a wrong to this — but I find it a very peculiar phenomenon with respect to art. I have seen and heard a lot of people over the past year denounce certain acts —and the music they used to enjoy— because of the artist's perceived political views. I can understand if the artist makes their politics their entire act, but that's overwhelmingly not the case with most of these scenarios. And besides, if you liked a song or an album before you knew the artist's ideals —and nothing about the recordings has changed— why do these cases come up where we can't allow ourselves to enjoy them any longer?

I've also got a semi-related sidebar addendum: I play guitar and use a lot of effects pedals in my music. I bought a pedal a while back (well over a year ago) from a particular brand and have used it a lot and enjoyed it a lot. It's a very well-made product. In the midst of the chaos that has been this year, the owner and founder of the pedal company made some fairly disparaging and disheartening remarks and a lot of the gear community has denounced them. Guitar Center even went as far as cutting ties with the company completely. Now I have this pedal —that I still think is great for what it is, btw— with a company name on it that is associated with bigotry and chauvinism. It's not a unique effect —I could get a similar one from another brand easily— but I'm pretty happy using the one I have. I put a sticker over the front plate, so the brand name and logo isn't visible anymore and I'm fine with that. However, if it were to come around that I was using a pedal from that now denounced company, there are some people that would be critical of me. Now, if I had known at the time of my purchase that the owner was the person that they are, I probably would not have bought it and opted for a different brand. But I didn't, so it's what I have. I still play my guitar with it and have a great time doing so. Why is that?

on your effects pedal sidebar addendum: i think you feel ok with it for a good reason, which is that you didn't purchase it to support hatred or bigotry, and if you would have known about it ahead of time, you would've given your money to someone else instead. so now you have this object that you have liberated from the bosom of its bigoted maker. you can think of it like a troubled dog that has now found it's forever home.

on the wider art vs artist, i'm not sure how i draw the line. it's not consistent, whatever it is. case by case i guess.

Can you elaborate on the situation with Moore? The only thing I know about that people are holding against him is that he dared to cheat on and divorce our beloved queen, Kim Gordon. Is there something else?

I'm not saying there is a right or a wrong to this — but I find it a very peculiar phenomenon with respect to art. I have seen and heard a lot of people over the past year denounce certain acts —and the music they used to enjoy— because of the artist's perceived political views. I can understand if the artist makes their politics their entire act, but that's overwhelmingly not the case with most of these scenarios. And besides, if you liked a song or an album before you knew the artist's ideals —and nothing about the recordings has changed— why do these cases come up where we can't allow ourselves to enjoy them any longer?

that's a good question. there's a certain prog band from Tennessee whose music I enjoyed a lot until I saw them liking Trump's tweets, clicking on them and realizing they follow all the FOX anchors, all the Trumps, etc. - now I still can listen to them but I have a hard time being a 'fan' because in my view if you support Trump and the Republican party than you are a bigot who straight up does not care about human life or the future of this planet and possibly thinks my kids belong in a dog kennel. of course it's kind of dumb to feel this way, they're from Tennessee and feature a lot of Christian themes in their work, of course they're almost certainly Republicans but actually seeing it is immensely disappointing

Interesting question. I generally don’t have trouble with this, but I think the ease of doing so depends how much of themselves the artist puts into their work. For example, Morrissey’s solo work for me is greatly overshadowed by what he’s become now, even in otherwise innocuous lyrics because it’s the personality too. Which isn’t to say I don’t still love Vauxhall & I, because I do.

Cosby is the first person I think of as someone I cannot separate from his work because so much of his career seemed devoted to constructing an utterly false persona to obfuscate how vile he really was. And it's an unfortunate example inasmuch as I wish that I could still enjoy the other delightful performances on The Cosby Show, but I just can't anymore.

^^^ excellent post

I hasten to say, however: I usually get back from my morning walk when The Cosby Show starts on syndication, and like a sucker I get wrapped in. I still love the show.

R. Kelly is a pretty obvious example too, you cannot hear any of his stuff now and not think "he's singing about fucking teenagers right now". only artist I've actually deleted out of my iTunes, I can't see myself ever wanting to hear his music again. whereas say, Michael Jackson, yeah it makes me uncomfortable but a lot of his seems pretty far removed from his actual persona

When it comes to those who I acknowledge as creeps and cretins and criminals but whose work still means enough to me that I am somehow able to separate the artist from the art, I feel like the absolute least I can do is a) find a way to experience their work that doesn't further benefit them monetarily and b) refrain from ever foisting their work upon or promoting it to anyone else.

Creeps/cretins/criminals aside, I do fall into thinking less of a public figure if they express political views that I consider to be seriously dumb or ill-informed. That happened to me this year in the case of a former indie-rock hero dude whose twitter I checked, and was a bit shook when I saw where he stands these days. It hasn't stopped me from listening to his older music, and I'm not a fan of his current stuff anyway, so I guess it hasn't tested my listening habits in that regard.

Thanks for everyone's insights thus far. Again: I'm not saying there is a right or a wrong answer to this, as I'm obviously wrestling with a few of these scenarios myself.

RE: Thurston
Yes, my discrepancy with his music stems from his adultery.

RE: Bill Cosby
This is a great example. I was such a huge fan of the show as a kid in my formative years and I loved his old albums from the 60s and 70s and I still feel a sense of great conflict about that older stuff in particular. Because the fact remains: some of his stand up material is still fucking funny, but I have a hard time putting the thought out of my head that there's a good possibility that he walked off the stage that night and did something reprehensible. Am I bad person for laughing at the jokes he told that had nothing to do with any of that?

Mark Kozelek (nothing post-2013 though). I am able to separate art from artist. Partly because I've always listened to music in a way that already disassociated the artist as a person/people, and would get swept up in the sound of the tune and the feeling that sound conveyed. The poetry that went along with the music would merely emphasize that mood, but I honestly I'd rarely even prioritize the meaning of the words at all. Robert Pollard's surreal paint-splattered-collage poetry is perfect for people like me, but even more straightforward narratives like Mark's ride backseat to the rest of what is going on in the sound design and performance. This seems like an elaborate excuse to hand wave away legitimate concerns, but honestly all music for me is a place I go, not a person.

On the politics side, I remember when Tobin Sprout's facebook presence was less professional and he was sharing anti-Obama memes before the Trump days... I think (bit of a fuzzy memory now). But same deal and there is no clear public indication on where he stands now so out of sight out of mind.

At the time the Cosby stuff started coming out, I had been following a blog called "Huxtable Hotness" - in which a young guy in NYC critiqued the wardrobe/fashion in each Cosby Show episode (in chronological order, one episode per post... it ran for several years). It was a terrific blog - warm, funny, appreciative of the show, etc. Once the news came out, the author let the blog fall dormant (I don't think he made any statement, he just stopped posting). Now the blog appears to be down (or "open to invited readers only"). I understand why he did it, but it is a real loss!

Yes, my discrepancy with his music stems from his adultery.

Out of your curiosity, was your upbringing a highly religious one?

Re: the Thurston Moore example, if "adultery" is the line you need to draw, so be it, but I feel like you are going to be spending a hell of a lot more time researching the private lives of musicians than you are listening to anything they'd make.

Michael Jackson was my favourite artist in the late 80s when I was aged 8-10. He seemed so unbelievably cool, like his image had been precision-engineered to be the absolute coolest thing a 8-10-year-old boy could imagine. Like in Moonwalker where he morphs into a spaceship and shoots the baddies? Or the motorbike ride video to Speed Demon? Who else was this aimed at? So yeah, I have difficulty listening to him now.

I just get more of a grimace of disappointment when listening to anything of Thurston's these days. It's not like on the face of it what he did was so abhorrent or beyond the pale but it just seemed beneath him and it wound up wreaking a lot of personal and professional havoc. Like I'm sure a lot of SY fans had some degree of investment in the band as a unit and Thurston and Kim as a couple so it just kinda sucked for him to blow it all up by being such a middle aged cliche.

I've also got a semi-related sidebar addendum: I play guitar and use a lot of effects pedals in my music. I bought a pedal a while back (well over a year ago) from a particular brand and have used it a lot and enjoyed it a lot. It's a very well-made product. In the midst of the chaos that has been this year, the owner and founder of the pedal company made some fairly disparaging and disheartening remarks and a lot of the gear community has denounced them. Guitar Center even went as far as cutting ties with the company completely. Now I have this pedal —that I still think is great for what it is, btw— with a company name on it that is associated with bigotry and chauvinism. It's not a unique effect —I could get a similar one from another brand easily— but I'm pretty happy using the one I have. I put a sticker over the front plate, so the brand name and logo isn't visible anymore and I'm fine with that. However, if it were to come around that I was using a pedal from that now denounced company, there are some people that would be critical of me. Now, if I had known at the time of my purchase that the owner was the person that they are, I probably would not have bought it and opted for a different brand. But I didn't, so it's what I have. I still play my guitar with it and have a great time doing so. Why is that?

― Totally different head. Totally. (Austin), Friday, September 25, 2020 12:19 PM (two hours ago) bookmarkflaglink

Which fulltone is it? ;)

xpost Like it's the kind of thing where people who are personally involved in a situation like that have probably figured out how to move on from it and have a more nuanced, situational perspective but for people on the outside who had a somewhat distanced and abstracted sense of the people/relationships involved, the perpetual reactions to their behavior just sorta hangs in this abstractedly-judgmental place. Expecting them to be paragons when they're just human beings who fuck up.

I just get more of a grimace of disappointment when listening to anything of Thurston's these days. It's not like on the face of it what he did was so abhorrent or beyond the pale but it just seemed beneath him and it wound up wreaking a lot of personal and professional havoc. Like I'm sure a lot of SY fans had some degree of investment in the band as a unit and Thurston and Kim as a couple so it just kinda sucked for him to blow it all up by being such a middle aged cliche.

Yeah, I get this reaction. Thurston and Kim were such a core part of the group and musicians that a lot of '90s indie rock fans looked up to, so it's natural I think for big SY fans to feel a little stung by the whole thing. I just have a problem putting him on the same level of an R Kelly or Bill Cosby.

this is mainly an issue for me when a 'serious artist man' type turns out to be abusing people. if i'm being really honest i'd say that the primary reason isn't that i find the behavior abhorrent (i do) but because i just can't take them seriously as an artist anymore. there's a sudden hollowness to what they were doing that i can't unhear. prince is a good example of this. still enjoy a song from time to time but don't revere him as an artist. wrt looking the other way with someone like miles davis or prince i would say that race places a role in who is absolved and who isn't. i'll just go ahead and say that i think that white people are less inclined to condemn black musicians for their abusive behavior.

there's also the factor of age and generations etc. abuse has been normalized to a horrifying degree now but i think it was probably even more normalized in the past. that doesn't excuse it but fuck it's just floating around everywhere and was kind of like the default for a lot of people in the 20th century. i think it starts to get interesting when people don't just condemn it as an individual action but start to ask what it means socially.

You would get laughed out of the room in many a culture if adultery was a dealbreaker for you when considering which artists you follow or not. I find the Puritanism itt deeply unsettling tbh. Like I’ve stepped into a parallel universe or something.

i love that we're even using the word 'adultery' itt

for an artist that wrote 'catholic block' ffs

it's natural I think for big SY fans to feel a little stung by the whole thing. I just have a problem putting him on the same level of an R Kelly or Bill Cosby.

― soaring skrrrtpeggios (jon /via/ chi 2.0), Friday, September 25, 2020 1:56 PM (seven minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

No, they're not really not in the same league at all, but I can understand the situation similarly affecting one's ability to separate art from artist nonetheless.

I'm not at all disturbed by the Moore-Gordon fracas because I didn't care about them as people and their iconicity anyway, and I love Sonic Youth.

You would get laughed out of the room in many a culture if adultery was a dealbreaker for you when considering which artists you follow or not. I find the Puritanism itt deeply unsettling tbh. Like I’ve stepped into a parallel universe or something.

― sock solipsist (pomenitul), Friday, September 25, 2020 2:06 PM (two minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

I think you might be projecting the puritanism you're perceiving itt.

FWIW, the purview of the thread title on its own doesn't necessitate judgment at all.

like i personally believe cheating is wrong but i don't know the details of the personal relationship pact that was breached there (beyond zomg they were married) and i'm not really that interested in what that was / it's none of my business. cheating is imperfect behavior that deserves some privacy imo - abuse and misogyny on the other hand need to be made very public.

I consider the line to be a personal one, one that I personally have changed quite a bit in the past few years. There are shades and degrees. I get it.

That said, there are some things that I will honestly think less of you as a person if you support them (and before it is asked, if someone thinks less of me because I draw a line a particular place, I don't care - my days of wanting to please everyone are long gone - so it's perfectly fine if someone doesn't care about my feelings about them). I consider those things to be really obvious - if you are an enthusiastic supporter of Skrewdriver, proudly wear Burzum shirts, or rep for Ted Nugent's bufoonery, at best I think you're missing the plot; at worst you're just a piece of shit.

if you are an enthusiastic supporter of Skrewdriver, proudly wear Burzum shirts, or rep for Ted Nugent's bufoonery

have you ever met a real person who is one of these people you refer to?

2xp map otfm

FWIW, the SY sitch (and people's reactions to it) is a little more complex than simply 'OMG, can you believe a dude in a band cheated on his partner'.

cheating is imperfect behavior that deserves some privacy imo

I'm not an SY fan and none of it affects me - but Kim has made it public (I've read her accounting of the circumstances in an interview blurb or something); so if folks choose to weigh that in how they see Thurston, and you argue against that, you're sort of "taking his side" (no?)

Calling the SY grievances itt "puritanism" totally ignores the specific context OL succinctly clarified upthread.

Not American and Protestant enough to get it, sorry. Peace.

have you ever met a real person who is one of these people you refer to?

I do not share any of Ted Nugent's political beliefs, but I like the albums he made between 1975 and 1980 quite a bit.

ok fair points. i can't recall much about the kim / thurston thing other than there was some underhanded and deceptive behavior but it wasn't an abusive situation. is that a fair summary? xp

lol to unperson.

I actually think a lot of burzum stuff kicks ass but while I could listen to burzum when I was a 20 year old (a 20 year old communist who hated nazis for sure, but very callow) I can't bring myself to listen to him now. like I'm not giving him plays on fucking Spotify.

also won't be listening to red house painters again.

but for some reason was singing "rock with you" in the shower the other day ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

have you ever met a real person who is one of these people you refer to?

I just posted a link to a YouTube video in the Rolling Metal thread a few weeks ago of a professional critic for a not unknown metal website that featured a prominent Burzum wall hanging in the background. But yeah, I still spot Burzum t-shirts in the wild. Now, how "proud" or knowing the wearer might be, I can't speak to, but they are out there.

saw a Burzum shirt in the wild a couple weeks ago

in general, I think it's easier for instrumental music and gets harder the more prominent confessional, personal lyrics and vocals are for the music.

Not American and Protestant enough to get it, sorry. Peace.

What's funny is this is sort of a cousin of that creepy line you see sometimes - "Hey, let go of your Protestant, American, middle-class hang-ups... just do this..."

god triad is so barf

I know, but I'm gonna put on Crown of Creation right now... it cracks me up when Grace sings it.

Chris Brown is one I feel slightly guilty liking so much, though am only headlines-aware of his abuse, what, a decade ago? If I see a "feat Chris Brown" track on an album, that's consistently a favorite. His acting ("Takers") impressed me, too. Whereas, oddly, Ariana Grande licked a donut and has forever lost my respect. She seems to be doing just fine without it, though.

I think Rolf Harris is maybe a perfect example of someone who has totally destroyed their own image. I'm not a fan and never intended to check him out though.

What's funny is this is sort of a cousin of that creepy line you see sometimes - "Hey, let go of your Protestant, American, middle-class hang-ups... just do this..."

Slippery slope much?

Unless someone provides solid evidence that Thurston Moore abused Kim Gordon in some way (in her memoir, Kim accuses him of being a coward for not initiating the divorce himself, which is… utterly banal), 'adultery' is a backwards charge that smacks of, yes, puritanism of the worst tabloid variety. It's none of our fucking business.

kozelek has a few earlier albums that meant something to me, and i still listen to them, but i have zero interest in hearing anything new from him (meaning like the last decade-plus)

none of the other prime examples are particularly important to me -- i would absolutely never buy a nugent or r. kelly record or otherwise contribute money to them, but 'stranglehold' is a great song and if it comes on the radio i'm not gonna turn it off

the thurston stuff is distasteful -- lots of people cheat, but doing it for years on end is pretty damn rude -- but whatever, really. i do kinda wonder how jim o'rourke feels about the whole thing tho

Feel like there are many reasons not to care about what is presumably yet another patience-testing pale retread of The Seer/To Be Kind in the year 2025 (and outside of a hole like rym, I assume many agree).

*raises hand*

other artists I have sold off entirely:

Roy Harper
White Rainbow

I'm sure there are a few others

I guess I understand the impulse. That in the face of a tragedy as big as Gaza, and feeling so helpless to do anything meaningful about it. People will kick around for anywhere to channel their outrage. Just for the sense of being able to do *something*. But pick those battles a little more wisely.

I've not really thought this through, but this happened today so.

I was teaching this morning, and the fact that Radiohead had released another round of codes for gig tickets came up. A couple of students were in the grip of such excitement about it that I felt like a twat bringing up Palestine. Is it my job to voice my opinions, however gently? Probably? One particular kid, who has been pretty vocal about eg trans issues in the past, Googled a couple of things, and we had a quick chat about Katan. He definitely took it on board, but I don't think it would stop him getting tickets (however unlikely that might be), and I'm not convinced it should stop him.

Fwiw, the rest of the class didn't give a shit about Radiohead, and, as is pretty typical, didn't seem to give a shit about Gaza.

(My Radiohead story: I loved them up to Kid A, saw them a couple of times; the Glastonbury 2003 show was pretty special for me. I got off at Amnesiac and haven't listened to anything since, pretty much. I'll still listen to stuff from the earlier albums and the magic is there, but I don't know, there's a new hollowness. Johnny is one thing, but it's Thom's pathetic equivocating that has had the bigger impact.)

Actually 'didn't give a shit about Gaza' isn't really fair. I recognise in their responses something closer to basic anger at the injustice, but this thing is too huge to understand, and too far away for them to do anything about it.

The One Battle After Another soundtrack really is sick tho

I watched Manhattan Murder Mystery last night to savor Diane Keaton's performance again.

I was a big Woody Allen fan in my late teens and early twenties. The last film of his I saw on purpose was Hollywood Ending (2002). I think I watched everything he had made up to that point, but it got to be too much (or too little) and I jumped ship.

(I saw Midnight in Paris (2011) too, but only because it was the very last film shown in a beloved local cinema that was shutting down).

Looking back at his filmography, Manhattan Murder Mystery is actually the only movie that feels like I could watch and enjoy it again. Minimal pretentious bullshit; age-appropriate couples, more or less; good supporting cast. His best film? Few might agree, but it's the only one I'm likely to rewatch, ever, at all. For me it has the best craft to baggage ratio.

Saw Miki last night, drums were supplied by a backing track but that didn't diminish their power. Great selection of Lush, Piroshka and the new album and Miki just comes across as someone you want to share a drink with, have a good chat about how you used to be a bit liberal but all these transes they have now are a bit much, and are definitely polluting childrens minds, so lol it’s just worth considering if they shouldn’t be allowed in society you know?

Source?

(Disappointing if true, that’s why I want to read her actual words on the subject, not a paraphrase)

hi. meaningless post. thanks.

i started to write something about woody allen but i already hate him so much, and i have covid right now so i feel like shit, and it just turned into one of my made up realities where him and madea duke it out on pay per view, with the proceeds going to the victims. who to cheer for in such a battle? indeed.

xxp That was my unattributed comment about Miki. Has she made those sort of comments?

We should assemble a Google docs sheet updated weekly with cancellations.

Google docs sheet for sic’s bugbears

Tbf I think a lot of people have bugbears about tervery

I admittedly have not spent much time looking but the only things I’m finding on my initial searches that link Miki Berenyi to being a TERF is people on the internet saying “Miki Berenyi is a TERF”

So yeah, I’d also like a source because usually the receipts come up immediately

There was a paywalled link to an Irish Times interview where she said something about how the internet had made lots of people she knew crazy that might be a source of this but I have no idea what’s actually in it beyond that quote

otm

i mean i'm not even a fan, but still: what?

unpaywalled link to the interview mentioned by DJP:

https://archive.ph/iV7jM

Saw this on a tumblr post

My excitement for this book release was a bit stifled however, as there have been rumours that Miki, like many other gen X British feminists before her, went down the mumsnet TERF rabbit hole after some younger fans noticed that she followed some less than savoury figures on twitter calling themselves gender critical. Apparently there were a few liked posts as well that were TERFy, but this one could be hearsay as I could not find anything like that after doing a quick check myself. For what its worth, she also follows a few very explicitly pro-trans accounts, so her status on transgender rights seems ambiguous.

So not much there but zero blame for people looking askance/keeping their distance given the way the JKR & Jonny Greenwood stuff started out very similarly (and was very infamously denied by the former’s PR as a “senior moment”). Obviously likes have been gone on twitter for a long time so suspect this was never really resolved either way.

Um

For the 2005 film Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire, Greenwood and the Radiohead drummer, Philip Selway, appeared as the wizard rock band Weird Sisters alongside Jarvis Cocker, Steve Mackey, Steven Claydon and Jason Buckle.

it's settled then, i'm throwing away all my Jason Buckle records

people who keep tabs of what other people like or follow on Twitter are creepy

so following anybody on Twitter is creepy, gotcha

For the 2005 film Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire, Greenwood and the Radiohead drummer, Philip Selway, appeared as the wizard rock band Weird Sisters alongside Jarvis Cocker, Steve Mackey, Steven Claydon and Jason Buckle.

I just watched 2/3 of this movie and they sound like the Cramps if they liked Tolkien instead of Russ Meyer

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gkA01bBtcEs

xp having a twitter period is creepy at this point

I remember in the run-up to the woke era, music writer Twitter had a "follow a teenage girl" campaign and I will say, full-throatedly, that the men who bit on that were creepy, yes

a what

(gyac i saw that same tumblr post and I’m still in the same place re: “what did she actually say/do”)

A what campaign????

xp I think it makes sense if understood in the context of that period where the people I mentioned were following and interacting with transphobes and liking transphobic tweets and then it was later revealed that the concerns were entirely justified.

https://web.archive.org/web/20221220134733/https://www.thepinknews.com/2018/03/22/jk-rowling-reps-blame-middle-aged-moment-for-liking-tweet-calling-trans-women-men-in-dresses/

People forget the context of how Twitter used to function at the time, too…I know I did because it’s been a long time!

As Twitter frequently shows people’s liked tweets in users’ feeds, a number of fans were shocked to see the message pop up on their timeline as being ‘liked’ by Rowling.

yeah that's what killed my interest in a prog band called Glass Hammer; suddenly stuff from the likes of Eric Trump was appearing in my feed because the band was 'liking' his posts. granted, they're Catholics from Tennessee, I probably should've guessed, but still disappointing to see a band I liked who wrote epic stories about good vs evil come down on the side of evil. that said I don't really miss listening to them at all, so whatever

Yeah Miki has never said anything publicly, but was tealeaved in various sensible centrist / genuine concerns mumsnetty facebook and IRL circles, by the sorts of ppl who spotted Roisin and Ayoade before they broke cover. It’s a case where on both tours I’ve been interested to go, cautious about the associations, hopeful re her not saying anything… but

xps of a couple of hours

it's settled then, i'm throwing away all my Jason Buckle records

he wasn’t in the touring lineup of Pulp this year, possibly staying home to get his Bandcamp release schedule up to an album a month

Didn't hear Miki say anything questionable at dc show.

If you're having trouble finding online proof of someone's opinions then that means they're not expressing them in public, which by definition makes them private opinions. And people can think what they want in private, even if that's something offensive. If you know them personally then by all means call them out on it. But I imagine none of you do know Miki B personally and thus don't know what she thinks, so it might be a better idea to challenge the many people who do spew their bigotry out into the world instead.

Fellas you can fall on your swords for Miki all you like, but pretending that public figures shouldn’t get judged by public facing activity is the height of the delusion because we don’t know what’s in their hearts or some shit. Nobody is assuming private opinions based on anything besides public facing interactions, so please spare us that nonsense. Like I linked above, the JKR liked tweet about “men in dresses” did turn out to be something, as did the Jonny Greenwood stuff, as did sic’s examples. Frankly the onus should be on people liking transphobic content to distance themselves.

skimming this thread makes me very glad i've never willingly listened to radiohead.

I remember in the run-up to the woke era, music writer Twitter had a "follow a teenage girl" campaign and I will say, full-throatedly, that the men who bit on that were creepy, yes

― *pies flung everywhere* -- Pill's Trap Goin' Ham (Whiney G. Weingarten), Tuesday, October 14, 2025 9:16 AM (two hours ago)

ayo who was the super creepy rock critic that posted here who always posted about female teenage artists and their choice of clothing?

are you thinking of the Rolling Teenpop threads?

who was it?

my posts are in response to the thread topic and delineating a modern aspect of this dilemma btw, no imputation on GMcBB

frank kogan?

I am guessing the "follow a teenage girl" thing started with "how do I keep up with what is popular with the youth demographic" and took the shockingly wrong path? It sounds like a rejected Nathan Fielder sketch

https://lasvegasweekly.com/news/archive/2008/jan/24/the-rules-of-the-game-no-28-dresses-are-my-weakne1/

a 2000 word piece on the dresses of Taylor Swift just weeks after her 18th birthday, featuring a fictional (?) snuffleupagus character who I imagine was inserted to make the author seem less creepy but unfortunately has the opposite effect.

ok having read that, oof

"hey, if you guys also all follow a teenage girl, nobody will notice what I'm up to"

Slavering is too kind a word for that piece

I feel like polling some of the sentences in that.