Too Much Information

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A lot of records and songwriters are praised for their emotional 'rawness' and their personal songwriting. But does that ever go too far? Have you ever found yourself baffled or even repelled by a song which has seemed too personal or private, or horrified by a personal detail? And what do you think of the confessional aesthetic of songwriting generally?

― Tom, Thursday, 24 May 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Peter Hammill's album "Over" was written just after he split with his wife. He was clearly not a happy fellow, and the whole album is just too much

That's the only one I can think of.

x0x0

― Norman Fay, Thursday, 24 May 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

everything by daniel johnston, surely...

― gareth, Thursday, 24 May 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

For some reason, a LOT of hardcore bands (e.g. Rykers, Biohazard etc) go into levels of introspection that even their psychiatrists would find self-indulgent. You'd think that might be interesting juxtaposed with all the shouting and barking, but that just makes it worse.

― tarden, Thursday, 24 May 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

I find Mel B's tiresome warblings about her mewling and puking offspring to be baffling, repulsive and horrific all at the same time. However I cannot wait for Posh's tribute to Brooklyn.......

― Emma, Thursday, 24 May 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Tom, I think I don't like 'the confessional aesthetic' much. I feel that it belongs in the same zone as psychobabble and Morrisette think. As I have said before, from my POV pop songs are a kind of fiction. Fiction draws (I suppose) from life, but (I suppose) in complex and mediated ways. I suppose I feel that pop songs should work in a similar fashion.

― the pinefox, Thursday, 24 May 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Jermaine Jackson had a song, forget the title, dedicated to Ma Jackson that contained the immortal line "Thanks for letting me come out of you." THAT is more than I needed to hear.

― tarden, Thursday, 24 May 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

I would've bought a Palace album...but then I noticed one of the songs was called "you have cum in your hair"...and I think that was way too much. If you push the boundaries so far, there won't be any boundaries left to push, and I'm not sure that's good for society. Though, the Palace song was more a matter of "ohhh, that's not very nice" than a social evil.

― james e l, Thursday, 24 May 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Surely it's called "You have cum in your hair and your dick is hanging out". You should buy that album cause it's great.

― Tom, Thursday, 24 May 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

It is a good album, and in that instance it doesn't bother me. I think it's a matter of who is singing it (delivery is important) and how well it's done. If a song is merely a diaristic description of one's personal life with no real art to it, it leaves me cold pretty quickly (hello alanis). But there are occasions where it can be done well, like "The Boatman's Call". It has very specific details about a particular break up, but I think there is something about the lyrics and the singing that make it more universal. One example of "Too Much Information" that really stands out for meis when I was a wee young thing and heard Sinead O'Connor's "Jump In the River", where one line goes "Like the time we did it so hard there was blood on the walls". I thought it just seemed gross at the time, but I also disliked it because it was obviously about an ex boyfriend and it gets tedious hearing loads of personal details when it's not done well. And in that case it wasn't.

― Nicole, Thursday, 24 May 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Blood on the tracks was so deeply personal it made me feel dirty the first time i heard it.

― anthony, Thursday, 24 May 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

I once sang songs about my peronal relationship with my girlfreind when she was in the audience. Later she said it wasn't too cool of me to do.

― Mike Hanley, Thursday, 24 May 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Well, the early John Lennon solo records -- specifically Plastic Ono Band -- I find grating and even repulsive for being a bit smug, a bit sneering in their approach to confessional songwriting. Granted, in 1971 or whatever, people *did* want to dissect Lennon's psyche, but, you know, that was then.

― scott p., Thursday, 24 May 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

To answer the bigger question, confessionalism in music too often assumes that the listener is concerned with the artist his or herself, and fails to "say" anything transcedent, to touch upon any larger truths. Robert Wyatt's "Rock Bottom" springs to mind as a record that actually does accomplish that, but too often, oddly, the artist's appeal as a public personality outstrips the appeal of their personal songcraft even as they try to do the opposite.

I suppose there is a certain level of narcissism implied by working through demons and such in a public forum and that egocentrism is likely only magnified when the artist in question is an established figure. I suppose that's a bit of casualty of the blurring of lines between public and private life and image, but when John Lennon, for example, decries his public life by releasing a confessional album doesn't he give up a certain portion of his private life in the process? That seems, in a way, defeatist.

― scott p., Thursday, 24 May 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

First, "you have cum in your hair..." is far and away my fave Will Oldham song, you should check it out! The song itself never mentions cum, or even hair, if that helps at all.

The only example of this I can think of offhand is Cursive's Domestica. I never heard the album, and surely never would have anyway, but I ESPECIALLY didn't want to hear it after the album was marketed as being inspired by the lead singer's divorce. I thought that was incredibly tacky, and very Jerry Springer.

I might have a bit of a double standard re this, because I thought it was incredibly cool for the Geto Boys to market that one album with a picture of Bushwick Bill on a hospital gurney with his eye shot out, cel phone to his ear. Maybe because that was done with some humor, I don't know.

Blood on the Tracks is often spoken of as "close to the bone," but those songs could be from anyne's POV, really. Which is why its such a great album.

― Mark, Thursday, 24 May 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

As much as I like Blood on the Tracks, I have to say that had I been Dylan's ex and he had written that about me he wouldn't have had to worry about living to see 60.

― Nicole, Thursday, 24 May 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Really though Nicole there was worse to come - "Sara"!!!!!

― Tom, Thursday, 24 May 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Like I said, he wouldn't live to write it. Just a friendly warning in case anyone was thinking of writing a song called "Nicole".

― Nicole, Thursday, 24 May 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

The ILM "Songs For Nicole" tribute album is surely only a matter of posts away.

― Tom, Thursday, 24 May 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

nicole
i love you
i'll never leave you
w
o you i turn to stone

nicole believe me
love was meant to be
consumed by you and me
nicole

nicole
i love you
i'm thinkin' of you
w
every motion i make

when the stars are above you
know that i miss you and
i'll be there sooner than you think
nicole

nicole nicole nicole

― fred solinger, Thursday, 24 May 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Oh, one lyric I always found highly amusing and sort of related to this confessional thing comes from an unlikely source...Dinosaur Jr! "I'll be in your room, you'll be cumming soon, i'll be gone all day, grab it that's your way"...I suspect that the song is more about making the words rhyme rather than promoting J.Mascis as a sex god...it's a good song mind. I will also get that Palace album.

― james e l, Thursday, 24 May 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Fred, your song makes no difference to me because I was planning on kicking you in the balls if we ever meet anyway.

― Nicole, Thursday, 24 May 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Fred's song sounds really good if you sing it to the tune of "Jaime" by Weezer. I'm sure he planned it that way.

― Otis Wheeler, Thursday, 24 May 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

The only way that song would sound good is if it was sung by James Bradfield, because then you'd have no clue what he was saying anyhow.

To answer the question, I don't really think I've ever been bothered by confessionalism as long as the song falls under my definition of "good songwriting". The only time I've ever been bothered was when the song was too close to something *I'D* only confess under extreme duress and harrassment from a mental health professional, or something.

― Ally, Thursday, 24 May 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

And as it is, Fred's meter sucks anyway. OUT!

― Ned Raggett, Thursday, 24 May 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

What, is this like Survivor now where we can vote people off the board? ILM survivor (or big brother for that matter) is a grim thought indeed.

― Nicole, Thursday, 24 May 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

I have been consistently repelled and repulsed by Conor Oberst's completely over-the-top vocals. I don't know if it's his lyrics as much as his voice itself, though. He sounds like he's telling you something excruciatingly private with every vocal exertion, and it's frankly disgusting. Emo in general does this to me--I just want to push it away. I would rather hear someone calmly sing the line "I awoke panting from a dream of slathering Bono with tanning lotion and sobbed at the drabness of life" than hear Conor Oberst sing the tamest of lines in his quavering, faux-earnest, "I'm-getting-a- violent-rimjob-while-singing" whine.

― Clarke B., Thursday, 24 May 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

For my sins, Clarke, I've actually seen Bright Eyes with about forty other people, if that, in a small local house/club. After it was all over and Conor's lungs were shredded, I coined the phrase "Emo You Black Emperor!"

ILM Survivor? Eeg, quite right, that's scary. I'll declare myself the weakest link and get out now.

― Ned Raggett, Thursday, 24 May 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

I feel pretty much that way about Nick Drake's "Parasite". I love it, but I deliberately never listen to it because it reminds me of how I tend to feel about myself during my depressions.

― Robin Carmody, Thursday, 24 May 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

*ahem*

I hear you're goin' through some changes
I hear your friends all turn their backs on you
And now you're hangin' round with strangers
Now just be careful who you're talkin' to

Oh Nicole, my sweet Nicole
Oh Nicole, sweet sweet Nicole

You started lookin' like a burn out
You're lookin' like you just stayed up all night
You're lookin' like you've been turned out
The way your actin' girl it just ain't right now

Oh Nicole, my sweet Nicole
Oh Nicole, my sweet Nicole

You know you really drive me crazy
You upset me with your wicked little smile
You started lookin' kind of spaced out
You drive a man stark ravin' wild

Oh Nicole, my sweet Nicole
Oh Nicole, sweet sweet Nicole

(words & music: f. solinger)

― fred solinger, Thursday, 24 May 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Shout out to anyone in the New York/New Jersey area: if you are interested in getting into contract-killing, I think I may have a job for you. Replies can be sent to the email address above.

― Nicole, Thursday, 24 May 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Dude, you didn't need to put out a contract. Me, Otis and Ramon woulda done it for free cos we need things to throw off my roof, and hey, why not bad songwriters? But now that you have this contract thing going, we will totally need the money, in cold hard cash, because, yo, booze gets pricey.

Fred should be ashamed that he's done Bruce Springsteen so godawfully.

― Ally, Thursday, 24 May 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

His death would be worth a bottle of the tipple of your choice. Go for it!

― Nicole, Thursday, 24 May 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

no, no, that was boogie rock, not springsteen. i don't think there were enough "girl"s in it and where is the escapism and emotional imagery?

― fred solinger, Thursday, 24 May 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Too sensitive for boogie. You need a "hard-lovin' woman" reference in there - I'm not sure Nicole would appreciate, though.

― Patrick, Thursday, 24 May 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Go three for three, Fred, write a lovers-rap song a la LL Cool J's "I Need Love." I DARE YOU.

― Ned Raggett, Thursday, 24 May 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Okay, bottle of tipple of my choice...that's a toughie. I say Cuervo Gold. The big bottle, not those lame little "gift bottles" as if anyone wants as a party favor to get like one drop of alcohol. The problem is Otis and Ramon aren't going to drink that. They will want Stoli.

Solinger, you are a dead man. We kill for alcohol.

― Ally, Thursday, 24 May 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

ned, that would call for far too many lyrics. however, i can give you a title and that would be: "hot boyz need love too."

― fred solinger, Thursday, 24 May 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Aw, come on, Solinger. You don't have anything to do tonight besides read Russian novels anyway.

― Josh, Thursday, 24 May 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

You forgot his absinthe tap directly into his aorta.

― Ned Raggett, Thursday, 24 May 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

I doubt fred would drink absinthe, but I would have no problem putting a hole in his aorta if he wants one.

It's funny how I started off trying to make a serious point on this thread and it has come to this...

― Nicole, Friday, 25 May 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

I've never heard the song, but I believe there is an Oasis track entitled "Fucking in the Bushes". This conjures up several images in my mind, none of them good, many involving eyebrows.

― Nik, Monday, 28 May 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Speaking of fucking in the bushes... One morning not so long ago I woke up by the sound of that particular song being played on my alarm clock and in my half sleep state I thought to myself "This is amazing, is it the new Primal Scream song?" It sounded familiar though and eventually I remembered it was Oasis. Their latest album too...

― Anonymous, Saturday, 2 June 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

three weeks pass...

i will not write here cuz peter will not appreciate or read any of my words...................... see you in a world where i can speak without being silenced by other peoples eyes.....

― deolinda maria pinto de almeida, Sunday, 24 June 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

---- !

― Tracer Hand, Monday, 25 June 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

two weeks pass...

I don't think they ever go too far. Take Bright Eyes for instance. You really feel like Conor is telling you something painfully private, lyrics aside. If you want mindless emotionless crap, there's plenty out there. We need bands like Bright Eyes or music would start to become pointless.

― Indie Boy, Saturday, 14 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

seven months pass...

Time to revive this given the Bright Eyes discussion. And we don't need them. Well, I don't. ;-)

― Ned Raggett, Friday, 22 February 2002 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

ugh. bright eyes. saw those guys open for grandaddy--the over emotional ridiculousness brought me to tears of laughter. i really was shocked.

― cybele, Friday, 22 February 2002 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

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