Sometimes I Don't Know What to Poll: ILM Artist Poll #107 - Todd Rundgren - RESULTS

https://i.imgur.com/6DCPyxC.jpg

Results should begin rolling out between 10 and noon EST Wednesday, March 24.

"Not Tonight"

Let the Runtian Rollout begin!

Tic, tic, tic

Part 3: Productions

14 ballots
https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51i44tymhnL.jpg
#20 (Tie) - 33 Points - 1 vote each
Bourgeois Tagg - Yoyo (1986)

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/d/d8/Killerlords.jpg
The Lords of the New Church - Killer Lords (1985)

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/f/f3/Rundgren_wizard.png
#18 - 40 points - 1 vote
Todd Rundgren - A Wizard, a True Star (1973)

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/4/44/Jill_Sobule_-_Things_Here_Are_Different.jpg
#17 - 45 points - 2 votes
Jill Sobule - Things Here Are Different (1990)

oh, I didn't realize you could vote his own albums in there lol

definitely will be checking out some of these

For productions, I ranked based both on results, and how much Todd seemed to have to do with the outcome. I didn't include his own records in this.

At the time, Todd called Sobule the "Joni Mitchell of the 90s", which didn't exactly come to pass. Her subsequent albums are apparently more whimsical.

Re AWATS, I think I probably wasn't super clear on that in my instructions. And it was literally the only vote for one of his albums in there. But even if it's kind of an outlier, I also think the production on that record is so over the top that it makes sense to me.

I don't know the Sobule record at all tho I believe it's briefly discussed in the Meyers book.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/4/47/Mother%27s_Spiritual_%28Laura_Nyro_album%29.jpg
#16  - 56 points - 2 votes
Laura Nyro - Mother’s Spiritual (1984)

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/f/fc/Cause_I_Sez_So_cover.jpg
#16 - 56 points - 2 votes
New York Dolls - Cause I Sez So (2009)

(that's a tie)

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/c/c4/LoveJunk.jpg
#14 - 59 points - 2 votes
The Pursuit of Happiness - Love Junk (1988)

I listened to this for the first time for this poll (although I knew the four singles that were omnipresent in Toronto at the time), but Moe Berg's voice grates.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/a/a6/RemoteControlAlbum.png
#13 - 94 points - 3 votes - 1 first place vote
The Tubes - Remote Control (1979)

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/9/98/GFR_American.jpg
#12 - 104 points - 4 votes
Grand Funk Railroad - We're An American Band (1973)

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/1/14/StageFright.jpg
#11 - 106 points - 4 votes
The Band - Stage Fright (1970)

(Technically, Todd engineered this one, but the judges were guided by the principle to "count all the votes")

Worth noting that Stage Fright is the record where supposedly Levon Helm chased Todd around with a drum stick. But one of the things that was noted in Meyers' book is that, despite the enfant terrible reputation Todd had (I think mostly from this record, Skylarking and maybe Badfinger), most people actually enjoyed their experience with Todd in the studio. The one area where almost everyone criticized him was in his mixing choices -- to a person, it seemed that everyone felt Todd's mixes were always too bright and compressed and didn't represent what they had been hearing in the studio.

Meyers suggests that it may have had something to do (and I think Todd may actually confirm this in the book, as he spoke to Meyers a bunch) with the fact that he was super efficient with bands in the studio and would get bored of projects as they dragged on and on in the mixing stage. So he would mix quickly ... and perhaps carelessly.

Ahem, Myers.

I voted for the Laura Nyro...I was so excited when I’d realised Todd had produced one of her albums...shame the songs aren’t great

I don’t even think he was the producer, I think he’s credited with production ‘assistance’....

Yep.It sounded from the M-Y-E-R-S book that the production was pretty troubled there -- she was apparently building her own studio and taking forever with each song, and since it was in her own home he couldn't get her to speed things up, so he eventually pulled out.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/4/43/L_Hillage.jpg
#10 - 110 points - 4 votes
Steve Hillage - L (1976)

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/5/53/Sparks_-_Sparks_reissue.jpg
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/a/ae/Halfnelson-sparks-cover-lp.jpg 
#9 - 119 points - 4 votes
Sparks/Halfnelson - Sparks/Halfnelson (1971)

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/1/10/Cheap_Trick_Next_Position_Please.jpg
#8 - 138 points - 5 votes
Cheap Trick - Next Position Please (1983)

Ok, time for lunch and then some actual work ... but I think we can plan on finishing the productions up today.

I think the Maels once mentioned that Sparks never would've gotten a shot if not for Todd, apparently he was the one guy they sent their tape to who really thought they had potential. he deserves to be in the R&R HOF for that alone

The Sparks album should be more widely known, it's a somewhat dark art-rock record that's different enough from their glam and later periods to appeal to listeners who don't like those eras.

Yeah that and the follow up are great examples of “good early albums that would be considered classics if they weren’t overshadowed by what came after”...wonder if there’s a thread on that

Or perhaps they are "records that would be buried in even greater obscurity, if the artists hadn't had some commercial success later".

Steve Hillage's L is awesome; his and Todd's psych/prog fixations complemented each other very well. It seems to have been recorded at roughly the same time as Rundgren's Faithful, so I wonder how the Beatles and Donovan covers on Hillage's album might have inspired Todd's 60s covers on Faithful (or vice-versa?)

I believe Rundgren recommended to Hillage that he cover those songs.

Sorry, should there have been a first-place vote for the Sparks record?

Yes -- one first place vote for Sparks/Halfnelson.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/0/00/Bat_out_of_Hell.jpg
#7 - 148 points - 5 votes - 1 first place vote
Meat Loaf - Bat Out of Hell (1977)

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/8/8a/BadfingerStraightUp.jpg
#6 - 225 points - 8 votes
Badfinger - Straight Up (1971)

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/c/c1/Wave_-_Patti_Smith_Group.jpg
#5  - 227 points - 8 votes
Patti Smith Group - Wave (1979)

I'm a big fan of Straight Up -- and despite Joey Molland being a dick (what's new), I think Todd more or less saved that album, based on the Myers book as well as the (super depressing) Badfinger book. It sounds like George Harrison left the tapes in a mess -- and there's even some debate as to whether George plays on that famous slide solo on "Day After Day" or if it's all Ham.

L is dope

great cover of the Beatles “it’s all too much”

YES, that's the track that grabbed me from that, actually.

I also have to say: "Frederick" from Wave is such a joyous track. Todd really found a new gear for Patti with that one. From the not-quite-disco beat to her own harmony vocals (the arrangement of which is one of his superpowers), that song is just wonderful start to finish.

Indeed

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/c/c0/Hall_Oates_War_Babies.jpg
#4 - 256 points - 8 votes - 1 first place vote
Hall & Oates - War Babies (1974)

I'm a huge stan of Remote Control (really, one of the best album covers ever) - yeah, that was me with the first-place vote. Not sure if Todd got any writing credits, but the songs would slot very well on his own albums at the time. Also really feels like a Todd album, as if he was finally finding a signature production sound. ("Signature" in that a non-musician like me can identify it.) Shame that the years-later follow-up, Love Bomb was such an unloved bomb.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/f/f4/Forever_Now_%28The_Psychedelic_Furs_album_-_original_cover_art%29.jpg
#3 - 269 points - 8 votes - 1 first place vote
Psychedelic Furs - Forever Now (1982)

One thing I never noticed about "Love My Way" was that Flo and Eddie (Mark Volman and Howard Kaylan) of the Mothers of Invention sing on the chorus:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zb4JY2mr-_Y

Another example of Todd's peerless vocal arranging abilities.

That’s interesting, never knew that but I am often surprised when I read about tracks they are on.

What’s with this “twisted” remake of “Bang the Drum All Day”?

Is that from that Greatest Classics: With a Twist album? That thing is super confusing, and I have no idea what it is.

My ballot:

Toons

1. Heavy Metal Kids
2. The Last Ride
3. Real Man
4. Parallel Lines
5. Healing
6. I Don't Want to Tie You Down
7. Afterlife
8. Baby Let’s Swing/The Last Thing You Said/Don’t Tie My Hands
9. God Said
10. International Feel
11. The Verb "To Love"
12. Long Flowing Robe
13. Marlene
14. Love Is the Answer
15. Love of the Common Man
16. Onomatopoeia
17. Hurting for You
18. One More Day (No Word)
19. Black and White
20. Too Far Gone
21. The Night the Carousel Burned Down
22. Determination
23. Sometimes I Don’t Know What to Feel
24. Just One Victory
25. Tiny Demons
26. We Gotta Get You a Woman
27. Couldn't I Just Tell You
28. Born to Synthesize
29. Believe in Me
30. A Beautiful Song

Elpees
1. Todd
2. Liars
3. A Wizard/A True Star
4. Something/Anything?
5. Faithful
6. Hermit of Mink Hollow
7. Runt
8. Runddans
9. Healing
10. Runt: Ballad of Todd Rundgren

Productions

1. XTC - Skylarking
2. Badfinger - Straight Up
3. Hall & Oates - War Babies
4. Patti Smith Group - Wave
5. Cheap Trick - Next Position Please
6. Sparks/Halfnelson - Sparks/Halfnelson
7. Steve Hillage - L
8. Utopia - Deface the Music

SONGS (ranked):
Love of the Common Man
International Feel
Just One Victory
Love Is the Answer
Hello It's Me
Real Man
Time Heals
Tiny Demons
Sometimes I Don't Know What to Feel
Don't You Ever Learn?
Healing
Initiation
Sweeter Memories
Cliché
When the Shit Hits the Fan / Sunset Blvd.
The Verb "To Love"
The Range War
The Night the Carousel Burned Down
A Dream Goes on Forever
Flamingo
Black Maria
Compassion
Lost Horizon
Influenza
There Are No Words
Dust in the Wind
All the Children Sing
Sons of 1984
Blue Orpheus
Black and White

ALBUMS (ranked):
A Wizard.. A True Star
Something / Anything
Todd
Healing
Todd Rundgren's Utopia
Faithful
Initiation
Runt: The Ballad of Todd Rundgren
Runt
Acapella

(NTI convinced me to weigh in here; long time lurker, first time poster. It would be Todd who dragged me out, and this may have been the hardest list I’ve had to make.)

What I love about Todd’s music is that it’s so incredibly broad that people can come at it from a million different directions. I may be the only one here who ranks the 80s stuff way higher than the 70s; and while it took me a while to get there, I value some of the later Utopia stuff as some of my favorite compositions, and it’s why POV made my album list, but I acknowledge that my entry point and tastes can be completely different from everyone else’s.

Another factor that completely affected my list was having experienced multiple of these songs as live performances; it changed how I felt about his songs. Seeing Todd do “Hawking” live on some of his best days made it rise higher and higher in my list, whereas you’d be hard-pressed to find Todd enjoying performing “Hello It’s Me” almost ever. As a result I far prefer the former. Same goes for seeing the emotion and power behind “Cliché,” “Feel It,” “Black Maria,” and “Fair Warning” when done live. (I’ve seen 23 shows in the 12 years since I really started listening to Todd, but you don’t have to go to the shows to see this: here’s Hawking live in Japan in ‘90, followed a few songs later by HIM: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BgNSwUmio_s)

Additionally the albums that were conceived of more as live performance albums (Nearly Human, 2nd Wind) are the ones that thrill me the most, whereas I see that others latch on to the more experimental outings or straight up power pop reflected in these poll results. But either way: Todd has a million different facets, and god do I love him for it. A Todd for every season.

I loved seeing the (No. 1 Lowest) Common Denominator cross-list popularity of “Love of the Common Man”: 10 votes and 3 number ones, and to my mind the quintessential representation of Todd‘s chord structures (all those maj7s and “T-chords”).

Thanks NTI for putting this one up and letting me think about it so hard.

Here’s my ballot:

Top 30 Todd Tracks:
1. Love of the Common Man
2. Feel It
3. Lysistrata (Utopia)
4. A Dream Goes on Forever
5. Pretending to Care
6. Cliché
7. Hawking
8. Change Myself
9. Couldn't I Just Tell You
10. Compassion
11. Can't Stop Running
12. Fair Warning
13. Parallel Lines
14. Love Is the Answer (Utopia)
15. Crybaby (Utopia)
16. Black Maria
17. The Seven Rays (Utopia)
18. Drive
19. Style (Utopia)
20. Second Wind
21. V.H.F. (Utopia)
22. Open My Eyes (Nazz)
23. Lucky Guy
24. Just One Victory
25. Healing, Pt. 1
26. The Very Last Time (Utopia) 
27. Long Flowing Robe
28. Can We Still Be Friends?
29. Hello It's Me
30. Determination

Albums:
1. Nearly Human
2. Something/Anything?
3. Hermit of Mink Hollow
4. A Wizard, a True Star
5. 2nd Wind
6. A Cappella
7. POV (Utopia)
8. Todd
9. Adventures in Utopia (Utopia)
10. The Ever Popular Tortured Artist Effect

Production: 
1. Skylarking - XTC
2. Wave - The Patti Smith Group
3. Forever Now - Psychedelic Furs
4. Next Position Please - Cheap Trick
5. Bat Out Of Hell - Meat Loaf
6. Remote Control - The Tubes
7. Straight Up - Badfinger
8. s/t - New York Dolls
9. Things Here Are Different - Jill Sobule
10. Wasp - Shaun Cassidy

Awesome, welcome <3

Seconded

I was unusually touched by some of the obscurities people highlighted on their ballots (that I hadn't voted for). It's nice to think that "Style" from POV isn't entirely forgotten.

Wow. Range War at 119? That would’ve been my number one.

That performance of “Hawking” is incredible, Zan.

I now understand why you had Nearly Human at #1 – you can really see here what he was going for with it, with these long swinging tracks where everything is kind of floating in space with lots of out of time fills, tons of backgrounds and, of course, these perfectly ecstatic Todd vocal performances. Great find.

‘Hawking’ was in my top 10 too...It wasn’t on my radar until I saw him play it live and it absolutely blew me away too...it’s just beautiful...I’m guessing the title refers to Stephen Hawking?

NTI - Todd’s recent virtual “Clearly Human” tour was essentially a revisit of the Japan ‘90 tour, and it was just superb. I hope it takes it on full tour again eventually, but it’s expensive so who knows.

XPP - yes, fairly certain the title is Stephen Hawking. Todd‘s religious themes are always tinged with science - a fascination with physics and metaphysics. I’m terrible at paying close attention to lyrics but this song I read over and over like a poem.

HTBFY, re: Style - god I love that song. Jesse Gress, Todd’s touring guitarist, once said Todd’s songs are all about suspensions - he goes from suspension to suspension to suspension without resolve, and so the listener is living in that constant tension. Then when you finally get a full on major chord - if you do at all - you’re like AHHHH. Style is a good example of that. Also Roger Powell’s keys are damn tricky - he takes what you expect and adds something weird to it, adding to Todd’s tension. So it’s like a pop song, but not at all.

Also to everyone talking about Communion with the Sun: YES. I’m surprised it didn’t make more lists, including my own. Those 4-part golden harmonies singing “Ra! Holy synthesizer”? My god! The best.

Style is great, I didn’t consider any Kasim-fronted stuff, though (to make compiling the ballot easier)

I'm glad that you guys haven't moved on from this, as last weekend I had chirrun to look after and could not comment… to wit…

1. "The Last Ride" is paramount to me in terms of his prog-philly opuses and is key to what he means to me… I love that he was aware of and was lovestruck by Gamble and Huff and Thom bell, and one has to assume that a lot of what inspired him to do that song and its stylistic kin was hometown pride… man does he ever grasp the essence of philly soul…from what I have found, it seems like the rock press typically didn't ask him about his immersion in the R&B of his hometown, so if anyone knows of him talking about this, let us know…

2, I think its pretty evident that much of the reason that he has toured ceaselessly for as long as he has is because he has to…I get the sense that over time he was not advised well as to his finances, or maybe he was heedless? or unlucky? He's not super famous and his income from his catalog/publishing probably is not what it would have been were the music marketplace had been upended two or three times in the past two decades…he has a lot of bravado re: playing live, taunting Andy Partridge a la "if you're a real musician, you play live," but his touring regimen is much much much more strenuous than other artists his age who have prepared for their dotage effectively…

‘The Last Ride’ was my no 1...every time I hear it, it never fails to slay me...there’s a live version from ‘75 with Luther Vandross on BV’s and I always wonder what a great soul voice ( Marvin?, Donny? Luther) would of done with it...the duet with Daryl Hall is lovely

One of the things I learned from the Myers book mentioned earlier was that, after making most of his money in production royalties from GFR and Meat Loaf, he lost a lot on various creative schemes, like a video studio he tried to set up. The creation of the New Cars, which was conceived as a quick cash infusion, actually lost him hundreds of thousands of dollars.

you could say it was a lemon

given the number of people he has onstage during each of his tours I kinda doubt he's just doing it for the money. he's old but seems to be in decent shape, his voice & chops are still there, and he's still doing new albums regularly, so why not?

I read a pretty interesting post the other day about how Todd's career is full of near misses, he always seems to be backing the wrong technology or winds up being *too* early an adopter

Oh man, I forgot that that shit was in the book… I watched a video of some ted-talkish thing he did where he was completely all in for streaming, to the point of parroting tech bro cant…along the lines of "music should be like running water in your house": like I understand that he's been into the komputah as long as the oldest tech big shots have, he's a true believer, having moved to SF in the 80s to be around ground zero of tech, but I would almost expect him to be a bit less sanguine, in that the environment for him as a lifelong, very well known musician sustaining his livelihood in his late 40s through the beginning of his twilight years has unquestionably been made much more difficult…

He wants you to buy his t-shirt if you're going to stream his records.

his attitude on the subject was definitely better than a lot of 70s megastars who responded with some form of "downloading is literally stealing and I'm going to die if you don't quit it"

A lot of 70s megastars have died, however... coincidence?

Posting this little old thing I threw together before I forget:

The Official Runtian Ballot of James Redd and the Blecchs

Couldn't I Just Tell You
I Saw the Light
Open My Eyes
Hello It's Me
Can We Still Be Friends?
We Gotta Get You a Woman
Be Nice To Me
It Wouldn't Have Made Any Difference
A Dream Goes on Forever
I Went to the Mirror
Cold Morning Light
Marlene
Love Is the Answer
Hideaway
All The Children Sing
Love of the Common Man
A Treatise on Cosmic Fire
Black Maria
Initiation
Wailing Wall
Drive
You Cried Wolf
Bag Lady
International Feel
Tic Tic Tic, It Wears Off
Zen Archer
Sometimes I Don’t Know What To Feel
Just One Victory
Love in Action
Long Flowing Robe
Albums
A Wizard / A True Star
Something / Anything?
Runt. The Ballad of Todd Rundgren
The Hermit of Mink Hollow
Initiation
Production
New York Dolls s/t
Straight Up
Forever Now
Stage Fright
Wave
Skylarking

Formatting got a little messed up in pasting but not gonna sweat it.

just gonna leave this here

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZFXGDy1cFiE

Good guitar solo!

KILT PERIOD

24 year-old Patti Smith comparing Todd Rundgren to Mozart, Smokey Robinson, Ronnie Spector, Ravel, and Crazy Horse in her August 1971 Rolling Stone review of Runt pic.twitter.com/0F7U7b4zjR

— Eric Harvey (@ericdharvey) April 4, 2021

Because they are Runts too?

The only way I remember the spelling of this Paul Myers is because of the jazz guitarist who spells it Paul Meyers. Then there is yet another Paul Myers associated with Leopold Stokowski.

In Woodstock now, but no sign of the hermit yet.

Not at the Glen Ford, I mean Glenford Dike.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZERNLvgboT4

Couldn’t I just tell you I’m a Heavy Metal Kid?

Heh

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KF8IoZowV4k

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7VL4pGazRA8

Finally watched the Tower Block Dreams doc last night. Nearly jumped out of my chair when I heard this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eVE9YSBfILE

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l7VzCia1mjA

RnRHoF for him or The Dolls?

Wow

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E1J_YT4VgAEoxmi?format=jpg&name=large

Swing To The Right is a lot of fun, I don't know why for so long i ignored listening to the Utopia stuff, there's no major distinction between Todd solo and them. IT'S ALL TODD.

I shoulda voted for “born to synthesize”, def over “black and white” at least. the vocal processing is otherworldly and I love the weird eerie high pitched ring that permeates the whole track… plus the jolting chords at the end. hell of a track. love how he sings ‘like waves on still water’.

Yeah, I just checked: I was the lone vote for "Born to Synthesize." IIRC, it was a bit of a controversial "Todd has really gone around the bend" track on Initiation. But you nail what I love about it ... it's kind of the essence of that period for Todd: super blue-eyed soulful vocals ... over the top, almost new age-y lyrics ... and so electronic it's downright dirty as fuck in places. I love it.

the qualities NTI mentions are also in abundance w/r/t to another artist who TR is not nearly associated enuff with: which is to say, Todd is the white Stevie, or rather, Stevie is to Todd as the Clinton diaspora is to the Zappa universe…

I’ve always thought Prince … but there’s def. some overlap w/r/t both.

Wasn't Todd one of the first (if not the first) "omg dude played all the instruments on his albums!" artists? I think that's where a lot of the Prince comparisons come from.

well Stevie and Todd both got to that point at the same time… to say that Stevie isn't in the same class as Todd and Prince on this score cuz he used other musicians throughout the 70s and didn't tend to mess with bass guitar and guitar is unnecessarily pedantic…on many many many of his recordings he isgenerating every sound…

I personally rate Stevie Wonder above both Todd and Prince in just about every category, which is why I think we tend to see a lot of comparisons between Todd and Prince, but not so many between Todd and Stevie (at least I don't.)

Ralph Schuckett died about two weeks after his mention on this thread. RIP.

https://www.uncut.co.uk/reviews/xtc-skylarking-705/