everything is good as long as you hear it once.

(no doubt everyone will say that this is wrong)

Anyway, yes I reckon it doesn't take into effect the concept of the grower; on the other hand that's rarely a phenomenon that occurs in my life so I don't ever take it into effect.

Quite right. He should have left it at no spins. *runs away from the outraged hordes*

Also, lots of songs become less annoying the more desensitized I am to them.

Very true indeed. In fact, I'd say that everything is good as soon as you've listened to it 30000000 times- you learn to appreciate the strong points of any record, and even those that don't have any for you get better cos you can learn to mock them, ignore them and/or give them nostalgic value.

Quite right. He should have left it at no spins. *runs away from the outraged hordes*

If you weren't The Only Poster That Mattered, you'd get a smack for that.

But all I would do is giggle.

actually, Alex. It's also possible they'll ask which albums you've heard and either say "yeah, that one's pretty lame" or give you a raspberry and say "after getting into Rancid they made a lot more sense to me. The trick is to get over the hype and enjoy what's actually there. Great hooks, lyrics with REAL personality. Lots of fun, especially the first album. Give it another try."

"There's so many of us there's so many of usLET'SSTARTAWAR!"

And see, this is where the argument REALLY falls down. ;-)

Most of my experience has been with the prior scenario, Anthony (not your ever so slightly condescending one). Sorry to say, but most "serious" Clash fans are dicks about other folks not being into the Clash.

2) No one owes you or anyone else an explanation of why they don't like something ("they suck" is fine). It's a fact of life that you won't get a better one kiddo and threatening (yes, jokingly, I know) to paddle someone's face because they happen to find a certain band, genre, SUV, or whatever uninteresting isn't going get you any explanations. It's just gonna get people inclined to take you even less seriously.

Why should I worry about being taken less seriously by people who won't even qualify their statements in a conversation? I think its perfectly fine to ask people what their logic is. I don't like to assume people have no taste, and would rather find out why they like what they like.

Well, this is my all-purpose answer for why I don't like things. Hate Autechre? it's because of the vocals!

and Autechre do have shitty vocals. Way low on the mix. Or is that me going "stop....stop..." must listen again.

and I search everybody. Cuz I like getting a fuller idea of where they're coming from. I care, yo (pats chest with fist). So take it as a compliment.

Oh, and I read the threads. Sounds like people are duddin' Strummer et. al because of what the Clash wraught more than what they recorded. Or they aren't fans of lyrics, which would definitely make the Clash seem more pedestrian.

I was gonna paddle his ass with Joe Strummer's face!

Oh mama, you make it sound so good.

I listened to all 35 tracks in the live focus group and it was all good. its good to hear all pop once. yes, I did give many low scores because my instincts told me that this wouldn't do anything for me even after many listens but I'm glad to hear it and consider it once. but pop is very annoying after a few listens (apart from one or two chart rap things or the two electroclash tracks I wouldn't consider buying it any of it for home consumption).

anthony: the clash are an average bunch. one of yr resons for liking them (as I recall in the best/worst taste) was because of 'original instrumentation'. When you said that, I thought that I'd better not argue with you.

The minuteman, on the other hand are instantly great.

In the case of Paullelujah, this statement couldn't be any truer.

my take: everything is good as long as you don't hear it once.

What the original thread title says is: "the quality of something is dependent upon you hearing it and so long as you hear it once, it is good. It doesn't matter if you hear it 345 times or 1.9 times, so long as you have heard it once it is good!" which = k-rocksore!

(opens eyes real wide) Cooooool! == 5 stars
(does the butt dance) == 4 stars
...uhhhhhh...this rules == 3 stars
...uhhhhhh...this sucks == 2 stars
...uhhhhhh...this sucks ass == 1 star

You mean this?

Why I generally find the Clash boring? Easy. I generally find myself bored when I listen to them. Or why I like the few Clash songs I like? Even easier. I find myself liking those songs when I listen to them.

As I said, in casual conversation- totally ok. On a music forum, it's a silly thing to say, because it doesn't lead to any sort of discussion- ILM would just consist of 10000 threads full of people saying "I like (band x)" and "well, (band x) kinda bores me". But you know that, so stop being so damn difficult! :)

and what's so strong abt guitar-bass-drums? its not saying much.

. . . because they wouldn't be Clash fans if they didn't pester other people, right? Hahaha

d00d, you got weird issuez.

And since I basically said I wasn't interested in discussing the matter with Anthony, I don't get what your big complaint is.

And that sounds like a minimum requirement to me. Many bands 'play well'.

What i luv abt minuteman is the guitar-bass-drums interaction taking place. To me, they seem to be in synch with each other. Most bands don't have that understanding.

MOST people (on this board or IRL) would just accept that I found Avril and Britney uninspiring (I don't as it happens--although I find Avril's music obnoxious and Britney's persona irritating) and they would have left it at that.

I don't really get why you would hang around a music forum if you don't wanna discuss bands beyond "I think they're dull"; but granted, that's your prerrogative. However, this:

Clash fans are monumentally boring and seemingly done nothing other than make SHOCKED sputtering sounds and whine horribly when they find out that someone else finds the Clash uninspiring.

So apart from just insulting a band that loads of people like, you have also insulted their entire fanbase, prompted only by some good humoured banter between Ned and Anthony. "Clash fans are monumentally boring" is exactly the kind of overt generalisation that wouldn't last a minute here with more popular artists (how many seconds would it take until a statement like "Britney fans are all teenyboppers" or "ABBA fans are monumentally dull" would get shot down here?)

And since I basically said I wasn't interested in discussing the matter with Anthony, I don't get what your big complaint is.

There's a world of difference between "I don't feel like discussing it" and "No one owes you or anyone else an explanation of why they don't like something"; you make it seem like Anthony is being a total dick just for asking you why you don't like The Clash (the most normal of things to do on a music forum.)

OK so this is yr next line. well, you'd expect a signed act to be technically competent or 'play great' (though unless you actually play an instrument that would prob be tough to tell but yes, a listener could tell 'good' from 'great' by comparison with bands and listening to many recs over time).

interesting that you don't like minuteman because watt and (drummer whose name I don't remmeber) make telling contributions at all times. They really were an exceptional trio. And I never forget that they are a trio.

daniel- alex in SF likes the stooges and is therefore 'not worthy' of yr attention.

As for the rest of your analogy (blah blah Avril, Britney, etc) well we'll have to wait until I am not hiding behide the shield of ILM popular consensus to see if I get shot down for X. You have a fascinating take on the function of music boards and the way this music board reacts to dissent in general. . . I don't think either one is as limited as you seem to think, but that's just my opinion.

(BTW, Julio is right, although not because I like the Stooges.)

alex in SF likes the stooges and is therefore 'not worthy' of yr attention.

Huh? Is this one of those ILX in-jokes that I'm not hip to? I like The Stooges, too (The Clash are better, tho)

(I love how this is supposed to have some real meaning--is "I don't like the vocals" any more deep music crit than "I find them dull", but whatever)

It isn't more meaningful, but it's more interesting to say "the vocals sound a bit mannered/over-emotive/whatever to me" than to simply state "I find them dull"; damn near everything is immaterial when you're discussing music, but the more detailed you get, the more likely it is that the other side will see your point. I find it enrichening to hear why others love/hate certain groups, simply because it helps me to try to understand the appeal of some music (meaning more music I like yay!) and to understand why other music could seem dull to others (meaning I'm not as flabbergasted anymore when someone tells me they don't like "Freak Like Me" yay!) I can totally understand that you don't feel the same way- what I can't understand is why you'd even bother to post your opinion, then. Only to remind Clash fans that there are people who don't like the group? They wouldn't have to spend much time on ILM to find that out anyway.

And Anthony seemed to think that he "deserved" an explanation (not just any explanation, mind you, but an explanation from me which suited his definitions of suckiness) and that it was his "right" to get one that suited him. It's not.

Can't see that at all, judging by the posts. It seems more like a request than a demand. I may be misinterpretating.

You have a fascinating take on the function of music boards

Oh, I'm not saying that "I don't like (band x) because blah blah blah" is the only thing that music forums are for (there's also "do you know any bands like (band x)?", "was (performer x) really in (band x)?", "I just made a tape, whaddya think", lists, lists, lists, etc.); I'm just saying that a simple "I don't like (band x)" can only lead to "well, I like (band x)" and "yeah, I hate (band x), too", which sounds like a pretty dull time to me.

not an in joke: just a 'clash' (haha) that we had a while back.

is that certain Clash fans seem to live in COMPLETE amazement that anyone could somehow not LIKE the Clash

Hmmm, I begin to see. I wouldn't know, I don't really know that many Clash fans (I'm one, but I don't really assume anyone likes anything)

I think the reason Clash fans (especially those more psycho about it then me - there ARE plenty) are shocked people would hate them is the amount of good cheer and emotion they put into their stuff. Fun and intelligent lyrics AND catchy tunes (sorry, Minutemen) are rarely found in the same package. Dissing the Clash (and I'll admit dissing the Minutemen - who are equally if not more personality-based) can seem like dissing really nice guys if you get off on the personality they invest in their music. It leads to some defensiveness, or at least in me, intense curiousity.

...I'm not buying that. At least not in the sense that they're supposed to be 'really nice guys,' I don't get that as some sort of key element to which one reacts positively or negatively.

I dunno- Lester Bang's piece on 'em (where he illustrates extensively how nice The Clash were to their fans) is one of the first things that I think of when I'm asked why I like The Clash, but then again, I loved them before I read it, so I dont think it's a *key* element.

I like the Damned too, btw. Though the Clash aren't quite as posey (before you balk, I know the Clash posed, but they posed as wanna-be revolutionaries, which to a degree they were. The Damned posed as vampires and murderers, which they weren't. Except maybe Rat). Interestingly, with both bands I only can speak most knowledgeably about their first albums. Though with both I really wanna hear more.