Pop songs with major key verses and minor key choruses

Was just listening to Elton John's "I'm Still Standing" and musing how rare it feels that a pop song is in major key BUT for the chorus.

Someone once told me half of the Police catalog does this (or possibly the other way around) but I'm not well-versed enough in music nor do I have the ear to deny or confirm

mr. blue sky

a little more love by olivia newton john i think

nope, that has minor verses/major chorus (which seems more common than the reverse)

thats what i thought but i read the thread title wrong

This is much harder than I thought it would be! Google turned up a couple though: "Us and Them" and "Under the Boardwalk"

I also thought of Delays' "Valentine" where the chorus changes keys doesn't actually start on a minor chord. but the progression concludes on the minor so sounds like a minor key to me

"Blue Skies" fits this more or less I think. Quite a mysterious tension generated with the words 'bluebirds' and 'blue skies' landing right on this ominous return to a minor chord - though the last refrain clarifies what's been going on - the days are 'blue' (sad) but as we resolve into major, it's blue skies from now on

"Here, There, and Everywhere" starts in major and momentarily slips into minor in the "I want her everywhere..." section, but the latter is more of a middle eight than a chorus.

I agree, the B minor part of "Us and Them" also feels more like a bridge than a chorus.

The most blatant example of this in pop is surely We Can Work It Out.

^ which is another one that can be seen more like a bridge than a chorus. I've always seen it that way

ABBA must have one of these surely.

Lots of Beatles songs did this. "Michelle", "Hey Bulldog", "Got to Get You Into My Life", "Fool on the Hill". Although as has been noted, whether a passage is a chorus or just a bridge that is used twice can be ambiguous. I'm not sure myself what distinguishes them, beyond whether or not it feels like the chorus.

If another part that precedes it feels like a chorus, I call it a bridge. The title lyrics in "We Can Work It Out" I've taken as the chorus, short as they are. Whereas in "Us and Them", there's no other part I'd call the chorus. But agree this is mostly arbitrary calls

Frankie Valli & the Four Seasons' "December 1963 (Oh What a Night")... I think?

I wanna say The Beach Boys did this in Pet Sounds somewhere but I can't say which track

Bee Gees, "I Started a Joke"?

Bee Gees' "Tragedy" definitely fits

Billy Squier, "My Kinda Lover."

xp - "Emotion" does too

Besides "is this the chorus or just a bridge?", another ambiguity in lots of these is whether a minor-key chorus is truly in that minor key, or just is a minor VI chord in the original major key. I believe the musicological term for this is a "relative key", such as a B minor chord in a song that's in D major.

costello’s “accidents will happen” is probably major in the chorus but it does start with a minor chord

More Beatles examples: "Help!" (the intro sort of sets this up) and "Run For Your Life" ends sourly in the minor.

"That Thing You Do!" and Belle and Sebastian's "Like Dylan in the Movies" came to mind. I think those start in the relative minor vi, as stated in the post above, and resolve to the major "home key." Probably a lot of examples like this. The second track on Mwng.

One more random example: Buzzcocks - Autonomy

I'm not sure about this but I Knew You Were Trouble by Taylor Swift?

Hall & Oates – Maneater

Dollar - Videotheque

I don't recognize this pattern in any songs on Pet Sounds, but it's true of "Heroes and Villains" if you call the "bicycle rider" theme a chorus (and if you call its tonality minor rather than some other mode).

Staying with the Beach Boys, "Time to Get Alone" has a verse and chorus both in D major, but manages to fit a D minor (7th?) into the chorus after the bassline descends, I've always loved that.

I’m not good at this but I feel like Dust in the Wind does this? Am I correct?

I don’t know the actual theory I’m just going for “verse sounds happy, chorus sounds melancholic” vibe.

I feel the beatles have several of these too.

Yes, "Dust in the Wind" too.

"Autonomy" is entirely major chords, as far as I can hear, although from the harmony you would expect some of those majors to be minor.

I just scanned through all the ABBA songs I have, the only example I can find is "Take a Chance on Me", although, again, it sounds more like a bridge than a chorus.
"Summer Night City" has some unusual modulations though - it has four separate sections (not even counting the intro in the long version):

Chorus ("Waiting for the sunrise"): D minor
Verse ("In the sun I feel like sleeping"): D minor
End-of-verse? ("I know what's waiting there for me"): D major
Pre-chorus? ("When the night comes with the action"): G minor

Haven’t listened to it in ages so going by memory but Nirvana - Dumb maybe does this too?

idk theory at all but a lot of these sound like they're vacillating between major and minor throughout not just for the chorus

It's complicated since there are major and minor keys and major and minor chords. If you strum the common open chords on an acoustic guitar (C, G, Am, Em), there are some minor chords tossed in there, but they're all centered around the key of C major.

The Elton John example is my favorite since it flips from major version of the key to the parallel minor (i.e. from C major to C minor).

This seems like something Sparks would do a lot, but I can't think of anything off the top of my head.

You're right about Sparks! Both "Get In the Swing" and "Fletcher Honorama" see-saw between B major and B minor. I always thought they got the idea for the latter from Love, whose "Red Telephone" fades out on A major/A minor.
We're even further now from the thread topic, but I'm obsessed with how "Cut My Hair" by the Who reharmonizes the last verse in the tonic minor, to emulate the character's amphetamine crash.

idk theory at all but a lot of these sound like they're vacillating between major and minor throughout not just for the chorus

This is what "Dust in the Wind" seems like to me - modal and ambiguously in a C major/A minor space, where every cadence in the verse or chorus ends on an A minor chord. The intro alternates two bars of C with two bars of Am. The verses are C G/B|Am|G Dm7|Am:|| with the melody going C-D-E-G-F-D-E (outlining a C major pentachord) with the Es landing on the Am chords at the ends of lines. The chorus is D/F# G|Am:|| with the melody descending D-C-B-A (outlining an A minor tetrachord), rising up to E and then A after the second chorus. There's a little more A minor emphasis in the melody in the chorus and C major emphasis in the melody in the verse but the harmony complicates this since it never resolves to C in any section (and the chorus makes as much sense as a V/V-V-vi deceptive resolution as anything else). The song ends on an Am chord.

I mean, the melodic movement is probably enough with modal music and the verses do put C chords on the strongest bars - I wouldn't say it's wrong to say C major verse/A minor chorus, but it does seem a bit ambiguous.

Yes, if the key change doesn't go to the harmonic minor, one could say these examples are just juggling different modes of the major key.

Def. some weird, subtle switches going on in Hal & Oates "Kiss On My List."

That one is switching from major to its parallel minor but all happens within the chorus

ABBA must have one of these surely.

Ace Of Base's two biggest hits do this... "All That She Wants", and "The Sign" (although with the latter, it's just the hook that is minor-key)

Mentioning Hall and Oates, "Private Eyes" fits the thread topic.

Threads like these put my brain into research mode, ugh. I am trying to remember what Tom Petty song does this. "Under The Boardwalk" does this.

Ah, "Under The Boardwalk" was already mentioned

Another Beatles example hiding in plain sight, Let It Be.

"let it be" chorus is in c major, same as the verse.

Was gonna say!

huh, I guess not!

lol ran it by a friend whose response was "while the chorus does end on C, which makes it officially C, it has a very strong Amin connotation."

The first chord in the chorus is an Am chord (with C in the melody!) that moves to C on the second half of the bar. He also jumps up to a high A on the weak part of a weak beat. That is the closest thing I see to an "A minor connotation". The melodic movement is typically C major, the cadence is plagal in C, and the last two bars of the chorus are pretty much identical to the last two bars of each phrase in the verse. Using vi as a substitute for I is pretty normal practice.

Thanks for that, I'm not really good with that stuff. Though I do know the Beatles were pretty ingenious about finding ways to substitute for familiar progressions, like, say, the doo wop progression.

"Rocket Man" I guess qualifies, but I feel that "the verse is in the relative minor" isn't really the purpose of this thread

Also I think this thread is specifically about the chorus being in minor, not the verse

Talk Talk - It's My Life, maybe? I can't figure out the chorus, but it sounds more minor than major to me.

10cc - The Wall Street Shuffle kind of does this, but the arrangement has so many sections it's a little difficult to say what the 'verse' actually is. Seems like an art-pop thing though, are there no Steely Dan songs with this technique?

Yeah lots of these examples don't sound like key changes to me. The songwriter just chose to use minor chords that are available in the overall key: usually the vi or ii.

If I'm playing a song that is in the key of C, I will expect an A minor to crop up somewhere, just for variety's sake, whether it's in the verse, bridge, or chorus. Like "Let it Be." If in D, I would expect to see a B minor somewhere. Like "I'm on Fire."

I don't think most of these songs are modulating into a different key for their choruses. Normally if there's a mid-song key change (like in "Lodi" or "What's Love Got to Do with it") I expect the key change to last, and be applied to all parts thenceforward.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u0K2F2DQz_I

Just realized "Beds are Burning" goes from F major in the verse/pre-chorus to F minor for the chorus

For a songwriter I don't respect much, I really do respect the trick Elton pulled off with this song, a lot.

The Who’s “Substitute” is all major apart from the pre-chorus (“But I’m a substitute for another guy/I look pretty tall but my heels are high”) which is in E minor.

they're using Em chords but they're still very much in the key of D major in that part, aren't they?

Fact checking cuz strikes again!

I mean, the chords are Em - Gm - Dsus - DM - (I think?) but I think the overall key has changed in the pre-chorus largely due to whatever the note is on “tute” in “But I’m a substitute for another guy.”

where's the Gm in that part? (and if it is in there, which key is it coming from?)

i hear that pre-chorus as a fairly standard "let's go to the ii for the b-part" songwriting trick, which rock guitarists writing in D are all but required to do. (i really wanted to be able to say the ii is *substituting* for the I here, but sadly that wouldn't be quite right.)

I feel like De-Luxe by Lush could be an example of this, but I could be completely wrong.

where's the Gm in that part? (and if it is in there, which key is it coming from?)

I'm gonna say it's...on the 3 in the first bar of the pre-chorus...? No idea which key it's coming from. My knowledge of Western music theory is very very slightly above zero.

Like "Accidents Will Happen" mentioned upthread, "Home Truth" by Elvis Costello has verses in D major and choruses in F major; but the chorus starts on an A minor and so has a "minor feel".

For a songwriter I don't respect much, I really do respect the trick Elton pulled off with this song, a lot.

― Eggs Benedick (Eric H.)

"I'm the one you need" by the Miracles has the same major to minor key modulation as "I'm still standing"

I'm still Smokey
Yea yea yea

So does "Telegram sam"

Although in that song the chorus starts on F maj so the effect is a little different

I feel like De-Luxe by Lush could be an example of this, but I could be completely wrong

I think it's all in E major, but it does use a G major chord borrowed from the key of E minor throughout the song. And the chorus starts on that G chord, which perhaps is what strikes your ear as a change of tonality.

"Skin Trade", Duran Duran

Kelly Rowland - Stole ?

Madness’s House of Fun, where the minor chorus was recorded on its own and spliced into a major, chorusless track titled Chemist Facade thanks to the miracle of Langer/Winstanley.

Nice one, just heard it the other day and thought of this thread

ctrl+f "the jam" zero results

hmm

"Dangerous Type" by the Cars

Just realized Barry Manilow's "Daybreak" kinda does this?

okay two suggestions, if ilm experts can confirm

Pretty in Pink
A Forest

?

"Pretty in Pink" is just like Who's "Substitute": D major verse, chorus starts on E minor, which is in the same key. Count it if you like

What is the chorus in "A Forest" though? The part I call the verse is A minor, the wordless section starts on B major

ah thanks. i was thinking the verse was c major, although same notes? So how do you tell that something is in the key of a minor instead of c major?

the chorus i thought were the three notes starting with f# sound? not much of a chorus to be honest so maybe not.

Yeah same notes: whether you pick A minor or C major depends on what you think the root note is. It starts on an A minor chord and sounds dark, so I've always thought of it as key of A minor

That section you're talking about kinda follows the Spanish chords I associate with bullfighters. I don't know the theory there but it uses an interesting set of notes I wouldn't call minor. Maybe someone with more theory knowledge than my limited amount can help here

Yeah, it suggests Phrygian mode, or some kind of chromatic movement that doesn't fit neatly into a "proper" key.

Another example of Smith doing that on the same album is the ending of "In Your House", where he plays the same figure down the guitar a fret at a time.

Oh I got a good one, I was just listening to it this morning: “Love Reign O’er Me”