Electronica: search and destroy

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Electronica is one of those styles of music that really produces alot of rubbish, but at the same time a few gems...I like Matmos and what I've heard of the Remote Viewer...what else is good?...I've been underwhelmed by To Rococo Rot and Mouse on Mars...oh hell, how is electronica defined anyhow?

― james e l, Thursday, 24 May 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

While we're busy with this, let's do a Rock S&D, a Rap S&D, a Pop S&D and..oh hell, why not just go with this- Music: search and destroy. I mean, there's a lot of rubbish music out there, but also some good stuff.

― Mitch Lastnamewithheld, Thursday, 24 May 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

That was a bit too sarcastic. Sorry james.

― Mitch Lastnamewithheld, Thursday, 24 May 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

At first I thought it said Electronic: classic or dud and I got excited because I think their first album is criminally underrated. You haven't lived til you listen to Bernard Sumner's attempts at rap! And you just can't put down an album with Neil Tennant involved...maybe that's where they where they went wrong with subsequent albums?

To me, electronica is too broad a term for search and destroy, because it's never really been defined to my satisfaction.

― Nicole, Thursday, 24 May 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

hmmm that's okay :)...I think it's a relatively small sub-set of the music spectrum!

― james e l, Thursday, 24 May 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

It is a rather large field though, isn't it? How about an _early electronica_ S&D? Anything before rave and techno would make things a little more interesting (and minus Kraftwerk perhaps).

― Johnathan, Thursday, 24 May 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Electronic sounds interesting, and based on this AMG excerpt, very enigmatic: AMG EXPERT REVIEW: Electronic's debut album fuses Marr's impeccable riff-oriented songwriting, Sumner's yearning vocals, and midtempo post-acid-house..The singles "Getting Away With It", "Feel Every Beat" and "Get the Message" are solid pop songs...The only misstep is "Feel Every Beat," a lightweight rap featuring none other than Sumner on vocals.

So is the song good or bad?

― Larms, Thursday, 24 May 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Which one --- Feel Every Beat or Getting Away with It?

If we're talking about Getting Away With It, I would say it's an absolute classic single. It's one of those songs that's really beyond me to describe adequately, it's just great.

Feel Every Beat is awesome because the rapping is so very awful that you get the feeling it might possibly be the worst in recorded history. Having said that, it still has a pretty nice chorus.

― Nicole, Thursday, 24 May 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

well, i meant "feel every beat", since the writer of that AMG review couldn't seem to make up his mind whether it was a brilliant pop song or a terrible misstep.

― larms, Thursday, 24 May 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

*checks review* How weird, I thought I had reviewed that myself! I just did the singles instead, it seems.

― Ned Raggett, Thursday, 24 May 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

As for the subject matter at hand, Mitch was right from the start. Above all else, 'electronica' is a FUCKING STUPID TERM and I can't believe I even just typed it. FEH! I avoid ever saying it, it sounds like something Jann Wenner dreamed up to use to explain to his advertisers what Moby is.

― Ned Raggett, Thursday, 24 May 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

I'm going to skip the thread subject (sorry, but gotta agree: electronica, too vague term nowadays) and just give a short praise to aforementioned Electronic. Their first album is quite great. Not exactly more than the sum of its parts, but when the parts are New Order minus Hook-bass (good or bad thing?) + Johnny Marr + occasional splash of Pet Shop Boynes, just the exact sum will do nicely.

― Janne Vanhanen, Thursday, 24 May 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

I was going to do "Music: Search & Destroy". A song everyone should listen to and a song everyone should stop listening to (probably more fun if it's a generally accepted classic). Was it that bad an idea?

― Greg, Thursday, 24 May 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

I prefer to use "techno" instead of "electronica", but I think the question is valid. Or, if James doesn't mind my hijacking his thread, I'd rephrase it for my benefit as : I'm pretty ignorant of techno, but I feel like I'm missing something, and I'd like to know which records to buy to get a good feel for the best of the genre. Maybe some various-artists compilations, since the genre seems more oriented towards individual tracks than albums or artists' careers. Is there some sort of techno equivalent to Rhino Records' Best Of Doo Wop compilations or something ?

― Patrick, Thursday, 24 May 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

RE: electronica (nasty word, indeed!). I have't been exposed to US music media a lot, but wasn't this a term originally used to hype up Brit dance acts such as Prodigy and Chemical Brothers to US rock/indie kids?

― Janne Vanhanen, Thursday, 24 May 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

I have't been exposed to US music media a lot, but wasn't this a term originally used to hype up Brit dance acts such as Prodigy and Chemical Brothers to US rock/indie kids?

I think you're right, because I think I remembered first hearing this phrase when US mtv was reporting on Prodigy and Chemical Bros., et. al. I think the American press had a very difficult time getting their head round the music being produced back then, and had to come up with some marketing catchphrase. I think they were very leery about relating the music to any dance music term because mainstream American kids seemed so resistant to any dance-related music (this was back when Stone Temple Pilots & Smashing Pumpkins still ruled the airwaves). Which is probably why I'm not quite comfortable with the term.

― Nicole, Thursday, 24 May 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

It's just when I go into record shops (Rough Trade) they have an electronica section, I don't like the term either, and it seems full of obscure stuff. Hijack this post, talk about whatever, it's all cool.

― james e l, Thursday, 24 May 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

That was indeed the original use, Janne.

Electronic's "Get The Message" sounded to me aged 10 like the best pop song ever. I think it'd only be average now, though.

The song everyone should stop listening to right now is "Yesterday", whereas the song everyone should listen to is "Get Ur Freak On". And, yes, there is someone I'm thinking of who should who might not know where to start :).

― Robin Carmody, Thursday, 24 May 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Does anyone here like kippered snacks?

― Mike Hanley, Thursday, 24 May 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

The problem people are having w/this thread is symptomatic of the way techno makes its way into circulation - not thru albums or single sales but thru DJs. I think finding a good DJ is probably more important than finding a good "act" you like, since those acts are often one-off projects, aliases, 14-year-olds, etc. At least for me, dance record shops are a byzantine world requiring a lot of patience and a memory for geneologies that rivals what jazzheads have to muddle through. Finding a DJ you trust to sort it out for you is a good first step.

― Tracer Hand, Thursday, 24 May 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

I think 'electronica' dates back to '93 or '94, when the term was used for those four New Electronica comps. But yeah -- definitely a term hijacked by the US for marketing/catch phrase/what-have-you.

― Andy, Thursday, 24 May 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

The term "electronica" could be a fear-of-dance-music thing, but I think it's probably more like "grunge", where a genre that's been around forever suddenly starts having some mainstream impact, and the media, who were previously ignoring the genre altogether, feels obligated for some reason to act like it's a new thing, and give it a new name to go with it - in grunge's case, "punk" and "metal" and "70s-style hard rock" and "garage rock" were all perfectly fine terms, but no, they had to act like no one before had ever done what Nirvana did. Just replace "grunge", "punk" and "Nirvana" with "electronica", "techno" and "Prodigy".

― Patrick, Thursday, 24 May 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

The e-word is contrived and cumbersome, true; but it seems a useful way of mentally grouping together, under a vague-but-broad umbrella, a number of genres that are all made by computers, possibly overlap in fan demographics, but otherwise have nothing to do with eachother (e.g. ambient and happy hardcore). It's certainly as useful as the "rock" or "pop" collectives for organizing the music in your head.

And "techno" can refer to a particular genre of electronica ("techno" as opposed to "house" or "jungle" or "ambient" etc), so the existence of the more overarching term can be useful. "Simon Reynolds writes about all types of electronica" is not too ambigious, while "the DJ spun techno" is potentially confusing.

That said, I sorta like calling it all "dance" even when it's not danceable, even though that's way more confusing. It just has a nice ring to it.

― Ian White, Thursday, 24 May 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Is there something wrong with 'electronic music'? Too many words?

― Josh, Thursday, 24 May 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Rasputin's has "House" "Jungle" "Trip-Hop" and "Techno" sections -- techno being sort of actual techno plus their catch-all. But used is filed simply under "Electronica".

Amoeba has the much more insane system of "House" and "Techno" and that's it.

I think that james' question was actually asking about IDM, given the bands he named. Uh, usual suspects? Aphex Twin, Autechre, Kid606, Oval. Actually, lots of bands we discuss on ILM are IDM, but I guess they're not labeled as such when they pop up. I think that there's a certain baseline specialized knowledge presumed. Which is where allmusic.com and the napster-clone of choice come in *real* handy.

― Sterling Clover, Thursday, 24 May 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Are there IDM DJs? Who are they?

― Tracer Hand, Thursday, 24 May 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Is there something wrong with 'electronic music'? Too many words? (Josh)

Too broad. "Get UR Freak On" is electronic music, as is most contemporary r&b and chart-pop. 'Electronica', I think, refers to electronic music which is on the fringes of dance and indie (but definitely not anything overtly dance).

― David, Thursday, 24 May 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

You've got me there. But those genres, while made with electronics, have other characteristics which are more identifying. Which is why I prefer to use 'electronic music' for, uh... that other stuff.

Yo james e l - can you tell us what it is you've liked or not liked about these bands you mentioned? Because I like both Matmos and MOM, so it would help to hear a bit more about what you think.

― Josh, Thursday, 24 May 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Tracer: Russel Haswell, Team Doyobi, Matt Herbert, Andy Weatherall, Keith Tenniswood, AFX, Mira Calix, Jake Mandell, most of the artists on Skam/Warp/Reflex perform DJ sets.
It was the Warp's last London night a couple of weeks ago, cause they're planning to do some nights in the states instead.

― K-reg, Thursday, 24 May 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Electronica's a US term. I have only ever heard 'IDM' used as in a derogatory mannor in the mid-nineties, or in the context of Simon Reynolds. I've found DSP (digital signal processing) to more accurate to describe 'abstract electronic' music, that isn't fixed to any beat/genre. Impractical, but appropriate because the process is one element they have in common.

― K-reg, Thursday, 24 May 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

I think 'IDM' has gained fairly widespread non-derogatory (derogatory too) use as a term descriptive of... that stuff it describes.

― Josh, Friday, 25 May 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Agreed, though I've still to 'hear' someone use it's non-derogatory application.

― K-reg, Friday, 25 May 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

i actually really like the term IDM

but i hate what it stands for, i just like the initials

k-reg: are you referring to nesh. is it finished now? guess that means i'll have to investigate the haywire sessions instead.

― gareth, Friday, 25 May 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

electronica kinda makes me think of labels, Morr, city centre offices, etc.. most of these labels output is highly recomended .. i dunno if its electronica but it's a handy shorthand.

― jk, Friday, 25 May 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Get UR Freak On.

― Greg, Friday, 25 May 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

i guess just like you would define guitar music as "music based in guitars" electronica(or maybe Techno) would be music based in technology.

it's a very broad genre... ya'think?

― harrizonn, Saturday, 26 May 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

As labels go I prefer "Electronic Music" to refer to music composed and or played on computers, synthesizers, drum machines. The phrase does cover a broad range of music but I think it's a good term to use when you don't know or don't want to get into sub genres. The term "Electronic Music" also seems to work when you have to describe what kind of music you make. I do think that sub genre terms are good to use when you want to distinguish to people what you like and hate. ex: I like to dance to____________ but I hate it when the DJ plays________ (Detroit Techno) (Trance) Certain terms just outright annoy me, like "Electronica". The american media adopted this word (which I think is Spanish for electronic) it seems to dismiss what had come before the mid 90's mainstream UK break in acts. Maybe because reviewers for major magazines didn't want to admit that they missed the underground Boom of electronic dance music that happened years ago right under their noses. But I don't think they will be able to avoid talking about artist like John Cage and Paul Lansky if Back to Complexity Digital Signal Processing type stuff or IDM becomes popular in the U.S.

― FRESH, Saturday, 26 May 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

'getting away with it' is an amazing track...always been my fave. shoot me, but i actually liked the rap on 'feel evry beat' too...somehow the chorus just makes everything alriiiiight. and god, anything with neil tennant is just amazing, isnt it? cant say too much for 'raise the pressure' or their recent one though

― SleepTilItHurts, Monday, 28 May 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

i can't believe this thread even exists in 2001!

― michael wells, Monday, 28 May 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

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The term "electronica" could be a fear-of-dance-music thing

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Nive one, Patrick. Mind you, IDM is even worse.

― Omar, Monday, 28 May 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

five months pass...

I like "electronica" as a label for some of the reasons others have already given here. I'm already used to using "electronic music" to describe older groups and individuals like Klaus Schulze, Tangerine Dream, Ash Ra Tempel, and more academic/avant-garde things like Stockhausen, etc. If you want to make "electronic music" a big unmbrella term to include those forms, plus newer forms like techno and drum & bass, then that's okay with me, but I don't like seeing it suddenly narrowed to only include forms that have come out of the underground dance scene. When I think "electronica" I think of a family of related music forms that can more or less be traced back to house and techno. And when I see "Dance Music" used as the label, that bugs me because not all dance music is, well, electronica. The music _I_ dance to the most is salsa. And hip-hop, while pretty electronic in a way, is a different enough animal from techno that I don't necessarily want to see them blended together under "Dance." Most electronica doesn't make me want to dance. Salsa, older disco, a lot of hip-hop do. (Sorry this doesn't help answer the original question at all. I think Psychic TV's "Kondole Thee Whale," a lyric/recitation free recording, was a pretty good ambient recording, using that term fairly loosely.)

― DeRayMi, Tuesday, 6 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

ten years pass...

Track ID: Morr Music-ish electronica with whistling? Was playing in an Oxford pub yesterday. I should have just asked ...

― djh, Monday, 23 July 2012 21:25 (thirteen years ago)

Charming thread. Also would like to know about the song with the whistling.

I've gone back to calling "electronica" "dance music" because I no longer give a fuck.

― โตเกียวเหมียวเหมียว aka Truck Bombing Begins at Home (Mount Cleaners), Monday, 23 July 2012 22:13 (thirteen years ago)

http://27.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_l39cqzdpnt1qzh5gno1_500.jpg

― omar little, Monday, 23 July 2012 22:17 (thirteen years ago)

It weren't all peaches & cream back in ye olde early tymes of ILM.

― Clarke B., Monday, 23 July 2012 22:19 (thirteen years ago)

not very many fucks. xp

― Misc. Carnivora (Matt P), Monday, 23 July 2012 22:19 (thirteen years ago)

must have all been given out already, no more left to give.

― Misc. Carnivora (Matt P), Monday, 23 July 2012 22:20 (thirteen years ago)

"zero fucks re: music terminology" written in sharpie on the opposite side of that box

― omar little, Monday, 23 July 2012 22:21 (thirteen years ago)

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