Pop Eye--The U.S. Version?

I thought the disappearance of the US Pop-Eye (we did have one) was for two reasons: a) the US charts' boringness, and b) Ally's awful awful upbraiding of Fred which forced him to halt Pop-Eye writings in abject misery. Ally's so mean.

yes, josh, you're 'on the money.' there's only so many ways one can say "the top 5 remains the same as it did last week and the week before."

i don't recall that particular upbraiding but there's no need to remind me of it cos i can probably GUESS the tone and the words used.

but brian, you're certainly welcome to it, but as one who's been there: BEWARE.

Yeah, we don't get those singles crashing into the top 10 every week, but I'm up for it. You could always highlight the greatest gainers, hot shot debut (or whatever they call it) and the bits of movement near the top. You could make it a monthly or biweekly thing? Of course that takes more work.

Well, I'm certainly beginning to see Josh and Fred's points.

While we're here, looking at the top 10, what's a "Lifehouse" and an "Uncle Kracker"? I assume by the misspelling that the latter falls into the Staind/Bizkit camp. Wasn't the former the name of a hair band in th Dial MTV heyday?

Lifehouse = 4th-generation Pearl Jam ripoffs

Firehouse = hair metal band

Uncle Kracker = associated with Kid Rock

By the way, Staind and Limp Bizkit are as dissimilar as (Brian McK) night and (Morris) Day (and the Time). (I do believe Staind's new- metal power-ballad is currently #1 on some Billboard chart.)

What about, instead of the Billboard charts, using a more representative chart for the US version, like MTV's TRL? (Representative of what the kid's are listening to / watching, that is.)

There's no upbraiding involved for this idea if the writing is good and/or the discussion is interesting, as opposed to coming off like an extremely poor man's Tom Ewing.

The problem, however, is as said: the U.S. chart doesn't have as many idiotic things to talk about. How much can you say about Uncle Kracker?

David: TRL is a good idea. MTV must post that stuff, it could be compiled weekly.

Staind/Bizkit: I think they've performed/toured together, but more to the point, I could have easily said Mudvayne or Korn or one of the "punning" names such as Deftones and Papa Roach (moving even further apart musically). I meant as much the mentality/sensibility/target audience/whatever: "Yeah, Stained is pretty cool, but what if we dropped the 'e'?"

...is Papa Roach a pun? I don't get it.

...is Papa Roach a pun? I don't get it.

Oh, no, no, no. The new metal comes in many shades - usually involving either face paint or attempts at screaming / rapping. Don't forget Linkin Park and Slipknot (though the 'Knot seem to be just simmering under the collective US/UK conscience). I'll take Mos Def aping Johnny Rotten any day of the fall TV season.

As Simon LeBon said in reference to Shellac, "It's all just so much post-Chili Peppers music".

By the way - the TRL frontpage (on MTV.com) DOES have a weekly Top 5 listed. And plenty of unflattering pictures of Carson Daly.

As far as "ridiculous music" fodder, MuchMusic (the Canadian MTV) offers some interesting tidbits. For instance - the Everlast-esque rebirth of Snow (he sounds like a male Dido!), and a quartet of punk- pop nymphets singing a song about being scared of Britney Spears and Christine Ag-ui-le-ra. Never mind the fact that MuchMusic has a cigar-smoking sock puppet as a VJ. Must keep those overhead costs quite low.

"Ah, I see," said the tiny grasshopper. I haven't been around long enough to be aware of the past U.S. Pop Eye. And Ally can upbraid me all she wants, but I think I'll try continuing to post "Pop Eye U.S." until people stop responding.

And, Ally, I prefer my braids down.

Let me make a case for the U.S. charts. As we can see from the handy dandy stats along the left, there certainly has been some chart movement over the past week. The towering inferno that is "Lady Marmalade" knocked Janet out of the top spot, and, I believe, rightly so. I think I may be the only person on this board who likes "L.M.," as I've taken to calling it, and it is for these four reasons:

1. Mya ("The Weakest Link"), for completely undersinging the opening verse, then coming back in the end to halfheartedly throw out a line that she can't even be bothered to drag out in a gospelly fashion. It's a totally weird moment, because the song is so full of competing, overlapping voices, then Mya cuts off her final appearance 2 beats early, leaving a silence that haunts me until this day.

2. Pink ("Come See The Softer Side Of"), for all of a sudden stopping her "hard" act and really living up to her girly name. She sings her verse like she dances in the video--oddly, and with a queasy attractiveness.

3. L'il Kim ("The Uncertainty Principle") for being a toned-down version of her normally raunchy self, for making Christina sing the word "Atari," and for actually singing(!) herself, although that could just be one of those fancy schtudio tricks.

4. And finally, Christina ("Vs. Mothra"), who I shall heretofore refer to as Mecha-Christina, for crashing her way into the song like a Japanese movie monster, breathing fire at the other singers, and shooting laser beams from the tips of her superfrizz hair. It's the only song I've ever really liked her in, mainly because she seems to have taken that step into total bionic mayhem. It's all been programmed in. Now her creators can just sit back and watch her go.

Also (back to the U.S. charts case), it's a fabulous idiosyncracy that the Hot 100 contains so many Country tracks. Obviously, Mainstream Country is Pop in America; why are the majority of the American posters on ILM so adverse to it? It's just as processed, planned, and produced as Britney, just with a different set of signifiers (i.e. dobros and jean jackets). What about Faith Hill's "There You'll Be" (the highest Country charter at 25, unless you count Uncle Kracker, which you could) makes it popular? Has anyone here actually heard it? I haven't. I loved her last hit, though. Can't remember the name right now. Remind me to tell you guys about my Faith Hill "smile" theory later.

And how is the so-inferior "Survivor" remaining so high? When are they going to release the much better "Bootylicious"? I was sick of "Survivor" the first time I heard it, and that Da Brat remix ain't making me any happier about it.

Finally, a note of personal satisfaction: the only song I've ever liked by Matchbox 20, oh wait, I mean matchbox twenty, "If You're Gone," is holding stong over the band's shitty new chart foray, "Mad Season." Go horns!

And what is this "Oochie Wally?" Why have I not heard it?

I think there is plenty to say about the U.S. charts. I want to have fun, too!

Pop Eye!

I'm averse to it because, based on my exposure to it, it tends to suck rocks really, *really* bad. Others may well disagree, and if you want to plunge into those depths, who am I to stop you? ;-)

Keep in mind as well, Brian, that FT isn't 'late,' merely in temporary stasis due to domain name idiocy. If Pitchfork was in the same straits but you were a couple of weeks away from being up and running again, I'd assume you'd think that me calling Pitchfork late would be jumping the gun a bit...

In any event, Pop-Eye will be back as a fully functioning part of FT soon enough, though at this point its focus will doubtless remain on the UK charts, which given it's a UK-based zine makes a certain sense. This said, Tom was ultimately the creator of Pop-Eye, so he should have the final word as long as he's still helping it along as to a US adjunct. Me, I think the American charts are astoundingly sluggish in comparison to the UK ones -- I prefer a little more uncertainty.

Of course, by late, I meant the old domain name. I eagerly anticipate the relaunch of Freaky Trigger in all its glory. And I realize that F.T. is U.K.-based, but there certainly is a large contingent of Americans (and Canadians? Show yourselves!) lurking about ILM. Shouldn't some of us want to discuss the music that surrounds and infiltrates our lives? I think ILM is a great place to do it.

Yeah, I haven't been watching the U.S. charts for that long, so they may be as sluggish as you say. The problem for me is, the U.K. charts, for the most part, really don't have an impact on my day to day life. So it feels kind of academic for me to discuss the Gorillaz or "Up Middle Finger" as pop, considering neither of those would have a snowball's chance of being popular in the U.S.

Besides the unpredictability factor, what makes the U.K. charts more worthy of discussion than the U.S. ones? Is there something more "authentic," less "corporate," in the way they are determined? Or is it just that we, as American pop elitists ;^), decide collectively to say, "British charts are cool, but ours are not?"

American pop radio isn't as diverse as the British equivalent, but, then again, our stations aren't state-supported. Is it corporatization that leads to homogenization? Or is it the will of the people?

Ach, the questions. If there is a collective "Shut up, Brian," feeling out there, let me know.

The playlists of some of my favorite radio stations are available online, and they're as cool and volatile as the UK charts. Except that the nationwide averaging thing, along with the various demo and sub-demographics that even regional stations cater to means that the coolness of the charts (in their very nature) gets drowned in the immensity of the nation. Thus, I support the TRL idea. Especially if it tracks the entire TRL stats for the week, noting day-by-day trends, and if it deals with the videos as well as the tunes.

Even though that "Lady Marmalade" cover doesn't hold a candle to the original, I still kinda like it, at least partly 'cause the idea of Christina Aguilera and Lil Kim being in the same room (which for all I know they've never been) makes me drool. Also I like that part at the end where the 4 singers are introduced and each one does a little bit of Mariah-like vocalizing (except Lil Kim, God help us).

Lady Marmalade is a good song, so much better than the crappy All Saints version. Plus the video is quite good, that shouldn't sway me, but it does! I like the way Missy Elliot just turns up at the beginning and ending of the song, she's always doing that kinda thing. There should be more just turning up in pop music.

As one of the three (and it has to be said most reliable) Pop-Eye writers back in the day I think Pop-Eye US is a great idea if you can think of new things to write each week. Generally we knock stuff out about the new entries only (whilst occasionally gizing a wary look at bad smell records which hang around for a long time). You've got a Billboard 100 which - even if it is sluggish - must get at least ten new tracks in it every week.

That said, the charts are a much more integral part of the British Music Scene - witness Top Of The Pops being easily the leading pop TV show in Britain. Therefore using some MTV based chart might also work - it has that TV connection.

Ned is right. Freaky Trigger is coming back very soon and it will be bigger and better than ever, Or something. I note that Tanya is back already. And Ally - I claim the title of the poor mans Tom Ewing as my own and I'll fight anyone who says otherwise.

There are quite a few Canadians on the board (guilty!), but you really don't want to know what's going on with the Canadian charts. Really, you don't.

I just know BNL is involved somehow, so I want no part of the Canadian charts.

Canadian content, argh.

is Candle in the Wind still number one?

Brian, although I imagine the discussion of UK songs might be a bit disorienting, I'd say that US pop actually gets a very large amount of attention on Freaky Trigger above and beyond its chart exposure there. Of course, I'd be the last to say that this was unjustified (garage excepted, US pop beats UK pop into the ground). Maybe it's a perspectival trick where we only notice the songs we *don't* recognise being talked about. Consider yourself lucky you're not here in Australia, where most black US pop had rarely gotten a look-in until about the last 12 months or so.

Tim makes a good point, most of the U.S. pop songs of note are discussed.

Really what makes Pop-Eye UK a better read/discussion is the dynamics of the charts not the songs themselves: the ridiculously premature Radio 1 playlistings, the Posh vs. Spiller battles for the top, the high debuts, the appropriate instant gratification of it all. There are only so many ways that from week-to-week you can say "Ride With Me" is ace and "I'm Like a Bird" is not. I'd think that some sort of TRL thing is the only way it would work in the same way.

I hear what y'all are saying. I guess I can leave it alone. But I don't think that TRL is any better than the U.S. charts, in terms of surprises or fluctuation--I mean, they have to RETIRE videos because they've been on the countdown so long.

At my heart, I'm just kind of a stats wonk, and I wish there was some sort of American equivalent to Pop Eye that we could discuss. I would say the CMJ charts might be fun, but possibly too "indie" for this board. They have top 10 RPM and Hip Hop charts, as well. Otherwise, I'll just have to settle for being a passive observer in the Pop Eye game. Which suits me fine.

Yes, Pete, you were the most reliable. But I was the best.

The UK charts are considered more "legitimate" because they are actually based wholly on record sales rather than the airplay- oriented US charts. And of course, yes, they *are* more exciting week-to-week, but then I would say that :).

The Australian charts have certainly improved no end recently with the increased R&B influence.

Hey Nicole, Canadian CONTENT isn't so bad. We went over this on the BNL thread. Canadian HITS are the issue: I admit that we're pretty good at producing completely yucky schlock like Celine and Alanis and more recently, Sky and McMaster&James. Eeeee.

Sorry Sean, but I associate canadian content with hearing Our Lady Peace & Sarah Mclachlan 40 times a day. There is some great canadian content, but I just had to whinge bitterly regardless.

Believe me, I feel your pain. S'why I don't listen to the radio.

since i made the inital swipe at canada in the BNL thread, let me just say that i love muchmusic and watch it way more than i do mtv. their main talent is a talking, cigar smoking sock who constantly rants about how horrible the video they are about to play is; i can think of few thngs better than that.

and granted, a lot of it is horrible, but at least there is a little more variety than mtv, the general attitude is a lot less professional, and i like seeing all of the weird little canadian bands mixed in with the u.s. chart hits.

finally, a u.s. pop eye based on TRL is a terrible idea, because although the order of the videos shown changes occasionally, the actual songs are almost always the same. there should be some way to work it out based on the u.s. charts though. i would think that there would be enough flux and diversity within the hot 100 to provide sufficient fodder, plus, where else are we going to get the opportunity to talk about lil' romeo?

Best way to do a US pop-eye it seems to me is have a fairly large cast of rotating and opinionated contributors. If you're only writing one week in four, say, you'll have more fresh stuff to cover. The other thing to do is widen it to a 'what's going on in pop' sort of thing, rather like the latelamented Pop League did (which we might still do but it's a bit of work). But yeah, if we can crack a way to do it I'd love to see one.

The UK pop-eye I think will have a format tweak with the lead article being by one contributor and the other two chucking in a 50-word sidebar each week, to make things more identifiable. And I've got some guest writers lined up for that too.

A North American version with rotating contributors? Is anyone else up for this then?

I think it's obvious where I stand on this. So is it just unsmiling Scott and me, or do we have more volunteers? Who's with us? We happy few!

I would be happy to contribute now and then...

If three others are in, then count me in too.

I have reservations about the amount of time I'll be able to commit, but since it's a big collaborative hing anyway, I'll throw my hat in.

I must say that the phrase "Mecha-Christina" has completely changed my world...

I forgot to add: "Oochie Wally" is quite possibly the dirtiest song on the countdown right now. Absolutely brilliant.

Re: Oochie Wally, await my comments on the Focus Group. True travesty that this track was not on the official list. Also, if you have only heard the radio edit, then seek the uncensored track at once. No longer does the chorus say "he really really got to move me". Instead comes the more direct "he really really fucks my coochie."

It's still a terrible song. I'm totally down to do US Pop-Eyes.

So, like, guys. Here's a thing: if ya'all wanna do a US Pop Eye, how about tomorrow one ya'alls goes and posts a new thread called US POP EYE 6/1/01 and see what gets started in this bitch?

I just love calling things "this bitch" these days. That's so great. But seriously, see what happens and if there is stuff to say then think about doing a new US Pop Eye (ie not that rubbish posted on NYLPM that got my goat like a mofo) when FT comes back up, do the rotating thing like been said, but test it here first a la the UK Pop Eye is doing right now.