I think it's time for an ETHEL CAIN thread

I was a big fan of last year's Inbred EP, and especially its singles ("Crush" and "Michelle Pfeiffer"). The pre-release singles from her upcoming debut (out 5/12) are also really good. I love her sound and vibe, the combination of dream-pop reverb and anthemic instincts.

She has quite the backstory too (short version, she's a trans PK from backwoods Florida who grew up singing in church), and a dedicated troupe of online disciples, which makes her interesting but the music is the main selling point.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EKnFBRMzRas

Here's "Crush" for anyone who missed it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xu-t3tqDyAY

so glad you made the thread, tipsy -- EC has been Major for me since discovering the EP last year.

here's another video for a track off the EP called "God's Country" (which is my favorite of hers):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AV3V_4NcUu8

and here are a couple more singles off the upcoming full-length which is called <i>Preacher's Daughter</i>: the closing track "Strangers" and "Gibson Girl":
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ggJArb5Tg1s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tRQOlWKcxYs

Yes, a discovery last year for me as well and agreed on all these points -- just wish the newer work was available on Bandcamp. "Michelle Pfeiffer" kinda melted my mind when I first heard it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=geclsIbWqoA

"michelle pfeiffer" is on another level from the rest of what i've heard from her, but she's definitely someone to keep an eye on.

I love "Michelle Pfeiffer," tho I could do without the Lil Aaron verse.

Bought tickets to see her in July, I'm betting she puts on a good show.

I was about to either start this thread or revive another vaguely appropriate one. I feel like she's getting better? Like, "Michelle Pfeiffer" and "Crush" are great, but the run this year - the "Everytime" cover, "Gibson Girl", "Strangers" and now "American Teenager" - is just like bam bam bam bam. Not necessarily stronger material per se, but it feels more confident, more connected to its own value, more embodied with a sense of the artist's distinct personality. Relatedly, I like that she is sharpening her commercial instincts, especially with "American Dream" which from the title on down is very calculated but in a way that totally works for me (the Journey-esque guitar solo is A+). Though I think "Strangers" is perhaps the best of them: I love how it's unclear whether the overtones of violence are metaphorical or literal - is she singing about a past obsessive relationship she has moved on from, or is she a ghost haunting the lover who murdered her?

lol *"American Teenager"

She deserves her own thread, of course, and assuming all trans rockers sound the same/are the same is dumb and limiting, but Mel Stone, who I've been following since an appearance on a podcast to talk about Velvet Goldmine some years back, is also a choice listen, and in ways there is a connection to Cain's work because they both find differing/distinct ways to make the hoary burnout dullness of whatever classic rock as such was sound better again. One of my favorites:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m8P1DJCG58c

Tour dates:

07/14/22 — Bloomington, IN — The Bishop

07/15/22 — Chicago, IL — Pitchfork Festival

07/18/22 — Detroit, MI — El Club

07/19/22 — Toronto, ON — Horseshoe

07/20/22 — Montreal, QC — Le Ritz PDB

07/22/22 — Boston, MA — Brighton Music Hall

07/23/22 — Philadelphia, PA — Johnny Brendas

07/24/22 — Washington, DC — Union Stage

07/27/22 — Richmond, VA — Richmond Music Hall

07/28/22 — Asheville, NC — The Grey Eagle

07/30/22 — Gainesville, FL — High Dive

07/31/22 — Tallahassee, FL — 926 Bar

08/5/22 — Denver, CO — Vortex Fest

08/20/22 — Seattle, WA — Neumos

08/21/22 — Vancouver, BC — Wise Hall

08/22/22 — Portland, OR — Mississippi Studios

08/2522 — San Francisco — The Independent

08/27/22 — Los Angeles, CA — This Ain’t No Picnic

08/28/22 — San Diego, CA — Humphrey’s (Here & There)

08/30/22 — Phoenix, AZ — Valley Bar

09/1/22 — Austin, TX — ACL Live @ Moody Theatre (Here & There)

09/2/22 — Dallas, TX — Ruins

09/6/22 — Atlanta, GA — The Earl

09/7/22 — Nashville, TN — Basement East

09/9/22 — NYC — Bowery Ballroom

NYT profile https://www.nytimes.com/2022/05/11/arts/music/ethel-cain-preachers-daughter.html

At the same time, Cain has no manager and no interest in forcing a hit on TikTok or Spotify. The dreamy, longing songs on “Preacher’s Daughter” — largely written, recorded and produced alone in her bedroom — may be soaring in sound and intention, but they are deliberately slow, hazy and dense, often stretching past the six-minute mark before exploding into an out-of-fashion guitar solo or spooky instrumental passage.

Cain also insists on living in the middle of nowhere, the better to drive her truck around barefoot and hang out in empty fields and graveyards or under dilapidated bridges. Before rural Alabama, she rented an abandoned church in a random Indiana town of fewer than 2,000 people.

In her slight Southern lilt, Cain expressed nothing but shellshocked disdain for cities like New York and Los Angeles, where most in her enviable position end up.

Disappointed to learn she's signed to Dr. Luke's company tbh

Yeah that's not great.

Overall good article though.

I'm on my 2nd time thru the album, I like it. Some songs I love, some that are more about vibe than tune, but overall the ambition of the thing is pretty impressive. Several songs past 7 minutes, one past 9, less of a pop sensibility than last year's singles but a real sense of almost cinematic scope. It sounds gorgeous, of course.

Great guitar playing and production too. There are sections that sound like Crazy Horse, others that sound like metal.

London tickets went on sale today and we’re gone immediately but she’s added an extra date for December 7th.

*were

Seeing her next week, psyched.

saw her earlier this week, great show though her voice live is a bit thinner than i expected from the record but still yeah, a fun time (considering her whole thing)

Show tonight was great, she sounded terrific and the rapport with the crowd was warm and friendly. She didn't do "Gibson Girl" or "Michelle Pfeiffer," which surprised me, but it was a strong set. And she has serious star power and presence.

Also the crowd (this was Asheville) was a nice slice of queer-friendly Appalachia. Totally heartwarming to see a high-school age trans girl there in a full bridal gown, accompanied by her frumpy middle-aged parents.

thoroughfare is one of my fav songs this year
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XocCIxoeilo

finally listened to this and surprised by how much it's taylor swift with a ton of reverb (not that that's a bad thing)

but how on earth did she get that voice! what the hell

She sounded great love too fwiw. Obviously her voice on the album benefits from tons of reverb, but it is no small instrument.

Live, not love

She's playing an outdoor show in downtown Portland tonight, sold out and I saw maybe 100-150 people lined up a few hours in advance to get in.

Yeah that sounds right. Still annoyed I missed out seeing her perform at the Castro the other year.

major tune

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nIvMmTsZVLo

love how uncompromising she is for her level of C-level fame but at the same time, not sure I wanted an entire album of samey slow core dirges from her

9 songs, 89 minutes, sheesh

On paper that seems perfect. But how will it sound?

I know not everyone like Steven Hyden, but I thought he had some interesting thoughts on it and, re: how it sounds:

The canon “fame freakout” album that most resembles Perverts is Bon Iver’s 22, A Million, even if it is only a third as long. Like Cain, Justin Vernon became indie-famous by playing beautiful, deconstructed heartland rock songs, and then he reacted to that fame by taking an ugly sonic razorblade to all those pretty soundscapes. Though Cain goes several steps further on Perverts. The 12-minute title track sets a distorted voice that sounds lifted from a decrepit 1980s-era answering machine against foreboding atmospheric clanking that might as well have been serendipitously recorded at an abandoned tire factory. Finally, at around the 11-minute mark, a somewhat melodic synth line floats in, a small reward for those that hung in for the preceding 660 seconds.

Much of Perverts unfolds (or doesn’t unfold) in similar fashion. The most song-like tracks feel more like interstitial instrumentals borrowed from a relatively normal goth record, like the self-explanatory “Punish” or the Cure-like “Etienne.” Of the four (!) songs that push beyond the 10-minute mark, the 13-minute “Houseofpsychoticwomn” is the most effective, with Cain repeating “I love you,” mantra-like, over a chop-block beat and droning keyboard. That might not sound like much on paper, but the piece has a wandering, creeping pull that’s reminiscent of the “quiet” halves of David Bowie’s Low and Animal Collective’s Feels.

The review sounds like it's coming from someone who had to review it rather than, say, take it for a drive or lay in bed with it. (Haven't heard the album yet.)

Huh. Well, I'll listen. Count me among those who prefer her more conventional songcraft, but I respect her insistence on being whoever she wants to be. She can do a lot of different things, maybe the next album will be pop.

Yeah this album is great. "Vacillator" might be my favorite, but I like the long moody/drone/noise sections too.

Yeah love it. It's terrifying in places but really good. Like if Grouper was possessed?

Felt like the right vibe for this January.

It is legitimately unnerving sometimes, existential dread stuff, but also really beautiful.

So the speculation about a "proper" sophomore album was correct: coming in August, along with a tour.

https://pitchfork.com/news/ethel-cain-announces-tour-dates-and-new-album-willoughby-tucker-i-will-always-love-you/

Worth noting: Thanks to the vinyl release of Preacher's Daughter, she's now the first openly trans artist to have a Billboard top 10 album.

https://www.dazeddigital.com/music/article/66604/1/ethel-cain-is-the-first-trans-artist-to-have-us-top-ten-album

Switched On Bach was a top 10 album, but before Wendy Carlos was openly trans.

Listened to Preachers Daughter for the first time last night, and again this morning. Love her voice, the music/production. Love the sound so much, it just fills up the room. Love that I can play the whole thing and just get enveloped into its' space.

New single from forthcoming album — kind of dream-pop Americana, it's good.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sP0us82q1ck

^ what a beautiful tune. I'm so interested in her evolution as an artist.

Also, amazing how country has firmly supplanted hip hop as the dominant genre in popular music.

New track “Fuck Me Eyes” is totally crushing.

It’s like Taylor Swift’s “You Are In Love”, if that song was an elegiac Springsteenish tribute to how everything in life will always go bad destined to be deployed in a perhaps heavy-handed manner in the final scene of a particularly tense episode of The Bear.

Wow yeah.

Three years undefeated as Miss Holiday Inn
Posted outside the liquor store 'cause she's too young to get in
They ask her why she talks so loud
"What ya do with all that mouth?"
Boy, if you're not scared of Jesus, fuck around and come find out
She's got the radio blasting with her big white smile
Pretty baby with the miles
And when she leaves, they never see her wiping her fuck me eyes

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H4h1rsPRwOg

Oops, can't embed. But worth clicking thru.

Bit of a return to "American Teenager" form (I'm not complaining). Also shout out to Tim F for referencing "You Are In Love" in any context. Probably my favorite Swift deep cut.

Ooop https://www.reddit.com/r/Fauxmoi/comments/1luq282/ethel_cain_is_under_fire_for_racism_misogyny_and/

uh. the receipts are pretty weak

Album is phenomenal.

Everything she has done has been leading to this.

“Dust Bowl” is crushing

I feel like the shadow of Low’s ‘The Curtain Hits The Cast’ looms over much of this album. “Tempest” reminds me of “Do You Know How To Waltz?”

Can I ask somebody to clear this up, because it's been bothering me for a while -- is she or is she not signed to Dr. Luke somehow at this point? Because that was my understanding for at least a while and it honestly made me less inclined to listen her these past couple of years.

She is “officially an independent artist again,” according to her instagram story this morning. She mentioned breaking ties in a recent interview (I forget which one).

She says she signed with Prescription five years ago without knowing Dr Luke was involved with the label and hasn’t been able to leave until now.

Okay, that's good to know, seriously! (The whole mess from a month ago, that's its own thing in turn...)

Didn't Dr. Luke found Prescription Songs though, and has he not maintained exclusive ownership? Guess I don't know how you'd think he wasn't involved but I'm probably missing some key info. I know history is littered with uninformed/ill-advised musicians hastily signing contracts and all, but Prescription has Dr. Luke written all over it, literally.

It's hard to believe she didn't know. But also she was still in kind of her edgelordy phase five years ago, when I first got into her music her social media exuded performative dgaf. I was kinda worried about her surviving celebrity tbh, but she seems like she's matured a lot.

I like the album on first pass, although there's a reason the singles were the singles. The rest is a bit monolithic slowcore — I know that's her thing, and I respect it, but I also kinda agree with the pfork review that it can feel a bit amorphous. Anyway, she's sure doing what she wants. I think she knows that if she totally embraced her pop instincts she could be a lot bigger, but it seems like she's willing to do just enough of that to keep the fans happy.

It's hard to believe she didn't know. But also she was still in kind of her edgelordy phase five years ago, when I first got into her music her social media exuded performative dgaf. I was kinda worried about her surviving celebrity tbh, but she seems like she's matured a lot.

I like the album on first pass, although there's a reason the singles were the singles. The rest is a bit monolithic slowcore — I know that's her thing, and I respect it, but I also kinda agree with the pfork review that it can feel a bit amorphous. Anyway, she's sure doing what she wants. I think she knows that if she totally embraced her pop instincts she could be a lot bigger, but it seems like she's willing to do just enough of that to keep the fans happy.

― paper plans (tipsy mothra)

i think... people are responsible for their actions, whatever the intent. i also feel like when you come from a fucked up background it's hard to not do fucked up things sometimes.

She has quite the backstory too (short version, she's a trans PK from backwoods Florida who grew up singing in church), and a dedicated troupe of online disciples, which makes her interesting but the music is the main selling point.

― a man often referred to in the news media as the Duke of Saxony (tipsy mothra)

ok i'm lost on "PK". psychokinetic? player killer?

Preacher's kid?

To my ears, the new album is extraordinary. A devastating, towering piece of work that I’m confident will continue to reveal layers. I know she’s not everyone’s cup of tea, but good lord.

Preacher's kid?

― the way out of (Eazy)

ah! that's it, thanks. :)

i hate that i can only describe her music in terms of "fake [this other artist]", like "fake low" or "fake taylor swift," but i am still really enjoying the songwriting on this record

haha closer “Waco, Taco” is actually like “what if Matt Healy had sent TS ‘Things We Lost In The Fire’ rather than ‘Hats’?” thought experiment

And how could I not be here for that?

i know it sounds crazy that a kid wouldn't do basic fact finding about a contract they're about to sign but if you deal w/ this stuff regularly..... it's actually not that crazy. i think it's also worth reading or remembering the circumstances under which she says she signed --

Then Lil Aaron introduced her to some people at a publishing company called Prescription Songs. It was the middle of the pandemic, and she says she’d just lost her job doing nails in Tallahassee. The company offered her a deal, and Anhedönia took it — connecting her on paper to Prescription Songs’ owner, Dr. Luke, the producer Kesha accused of rape, psychological torment, and emotional abuse in a lawsuit she filed in 2014. (He vehemently denied her claims and countersued for defamation; Kesha’s cases were all dropped or dismissed, and this June, after a decade-long court battle, they reached a settlement in which Kesha said that “only God knows what happened that night.”)

Anhedönia knew who Dr. Luke was, but she says she wasn’t fully aware that he ran Prescription when she first signed. “I didn’t do a lot of digging until way further down the line,” she says. “I was like, ‘Oh.’ ” Once she knew, she continues, “I just decided, ‘I’m here now and can’t really go anywhere for a while. So I’m just going to mind my business and make my music.’ But if I had my choice, I would much prefer to do business with somebody else. I’ll just say that.”

The Prescription Songs deal came during a desperate time for her. “I was broke,” she says. “I was literally going to the hospital because I was malnourished, and I was passing out all the time. My landlord was sending me angry texts every day because I was behind on rent. I was like, ‘I need money,’ and I signed.”

lil aaron, who has worked w/ luke for a long time, also took kim petras under his wing, he worked on all her early music, he seems to have a way with endearing himself to young artists, making them feel comfortable. i don't say this to imply anything nefarious, but i do think that ethel's relationship w/ dr luke and prescription songs should probably be viewed thru the lens of, a broke artist during the pandemic met somebody in the industry that she trusted and when that person introduced her to some industry people he knew she then trusted them, and when those people offered her a contract she felt like it was safe for her to sign it. this is a very common dynamic w/ developing artists -- everyone understands that the music industry can be predatory, and so when they find someone they think they can trust, that person's word means a lot, even if it eventually ends up w/ the artist eventually signing a contract that they later find out isn't what they thought they were signing

also -- i know it's semantic but prescription songs isn't a record label, it's a publishing company. luke's current label is called amigo records, which is distributed by republic. kim petras is signed to that, as was joy oladokun -- if you look at their recent releases on spotify or apple you'll see this all spelled out at the bottom (tho not oladokun's most recent single as she is now also indie). luke's people seem to have allowed ethel to keep all this info off of her albums, which isn't entirely unusual, labels often hold this info back w/ certain artists to maintain the veneer of independence. obviously in this case everyone knows the deal, but they've allowed her some measure of distance publicly, even though it's typically up to the label to decide how this info is displayed. in any event, i bring this up to say that it is plausible to me that, beyond not understanding who ran prescription songs, that ethel didn't fully understand what she was signing, perhaps she thought she would only be writing songs for other artists and wasn't giving up her own recordings, i don't know. i would just say that this stuff is very complicated by design and artists are still consistently signing paperwork w/ companies of all sizes that they think means one thing but actually means something else

and also when ethel says that she is independent she is talking about her recordings, but my guess is that prescription songs still owns her publishing, as publishing deals typically don't have end points in the same way that record deals do -- hit boy recently just announced that jay z helped him get out of the deal w/ UMPG (universal's publishing arm) that he signed 18 years ago, when he was 19 https://www.complex.com/music/a/markelibert/hit-boy-18-year-publishing-deal-thanks-jay-z

anyway, i've barely listened to any of her music so i don't have much of a horse in this race, but i would say that i wouldn't let her relationship w/ prescription songs stand in the way of enjoying her music because contractual tentacles can be hard if not impossible to shed and this stuff is still quite commonplace

The other unfortunate thing about her association with Lil Aaron is his presence on “Michelle Pfeiffer,” which is otherwise classic.

dont know lil aaron personally and not defending anyone's business choices but imho hes quite talented creatively

after two listens, not sure i like this. just feel like i'm trudging through really pretty mud by the end

fell asleep listening to this at work yesterday
maybe I'll give it another shot a bit later

Lol I gave it a full listen last night while lying on the couch with my eyes closed, may or may not have drifted off at some points, but that felt like the right way to experience/absorb it. It hit me a lot more than when I had it on sort of in the background. I do like it a lot, but it’s not an everyday listen.

Curious what the live shows will be like for this. It’s very intimate music, but it could certainly be presented with a lot of volume.

To my ears, the new album is extraordinary. A devastating, towering piece of work that I’m confident will continue to reveal layers. I know she’s not everyone’s cup of tea, but good lord.

OTM, this is extraordinary, AOTY stuff. Love the immersion of it.

Ivy and Tim split here what a heartbreaker

i mean i can definitely appreciate what this album is doing i just don't want to listen to it again

I agree, this album is extraordinary. Pretty sure I like it more than Preacher's Daughter.

“Dust Bowl” is crushing

agree.

I'll be very happy if this album leads to a slowcore revival.

I wasn't really sold on the single, but I decided to give it a duty listen anyway.

Ended up listening to it 3 times in a row, absolutely mesmerised. In context, the single makes a bit more sense. The whole thing is just drenched in Southern Gothic atmosphere.

What in the world is all this:

https://www.stereogum.com/2319237/lana-del-rey-previews-apparent-ethel-cain-diss-track/news/

Unless this is just PR for an eventual duets album.

I cannot believe that this has invoked Jack Donaghue of Salem

Yeah of all people I was all 'what'

Honestly, who gives a fuck?

(Obviously me, since I am reading about it and posting about it on a messageboard)

But in truth the fact I am reading about it on an Ethel Cain thread instead of the other way around tells me everything I need to know about who is going to come out looking better from this stunt and benefit from any publicity

lol I saw the headlines and was just like "not getting involved in that one, no sir."

yeah this is all messy and stupid; I did think the 'are you going to have your hologram sing this song while you vape' was a good burn. But idiotic stans across the board are making this horrible; transphobic nonsense getting posted on Cain's instagram, fatshaming stuff being posted at LDR. The internet is stupid.

Some good memes coming out of it though

sooo much transphobia on the internet today

Ivy and Tim split here what a heartbreaker

― ok (D-40), Tuesday, 12 August 2025 22:39 (four days ago) bookmarkflaglink

https://i.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/facebook/000/049/719/Furry_parents_fighting_meme_banner.jpg

Ivy and Tim split here what a heartbreaker

― ok (D-40), Tuesday, 12 August 2025 22:39 (four days ago) bookmarkflaglink

https://i.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/facebook/000/049/719/Furry_parents_fighting_meme_banner.jpg

No but seriously …

Waco, Texas is my favorite thing on here, but I realized the main melody/guitar loop really sounds like another song...and I can't figure out what it is. Anyone else? Male singer, I think....not something super recent but also not something really old.

i want to say it might start with a lyric mentioning a specific date. that's all I got.

Oh, ha.... it's "feel so low" by porcupine tree.

Holy shit this is great! I can understand ivy's comment about "pretty mud", but goddamn it is so pretty that I love wallowing in it. When the drums kick in on "Tempest" is probably my favorite bit right now, major Cure vibes for me.

A friend saw her in Atlanta the other week, said it was a fantastic show.

I think I listened to Waco, Texas three times in a row the other night...which took up about 45 minutes.

The album doesn't totally payoff for me, but I still love the singles, especially "Nettles." There's a good Song Exploder episode on its evolution (I didn't realize how long she'd been kicking it around and that there was an earlier version on her SoundCloud). She impressed me more than I was expecting... very mature and thoughtful. I honestly didn't realize how much of her music and lyrics were fictional and about world-building -- another connection to T Swift?

I like this album a lot, I put it and Perverts on back to back the other night. They are specific listening experiences and not things I'm going to put on all the time — although Willoughby Tucker can actually float by very pleasantly in the background if you're not digging into it. But I think both are serious and interesting work, and I think she's serious and interesting.

I saw her in Buffalo last week. It was a phenomenal show. I felt like I was in a trance the whole time, 6,000 people going absolutely apeshit for some of the slowest, saddest, and droniest pop songs I’ve ever heard. Huge, enveloping sound. It was a peak concert experience.

xpost The Cure reference is spot on. While I was watching the concert, I kept thinking, “This is what it must’ve been like to see the Cure on the Disintegration tour.” (I saw the Cure on the Kiss Me tour, by the way—totally different vibe.)

Ethel picks some movies

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ld19PMXUyqg