Songs with no definitive version

There are a lot of these I guess, but I'm thinking particularly of really great songs, for which you just can't put your finger on THE version.

"Trouble In Mind" is one of these for me. In my mind there's this iconic version, but who's it by? You'd think the Sam Cooke version would be it but it's not. He's too jaunty. The song walks a line between sorrow and hope but Sam sounds like he's left the trough far behind him. Nina Simone's is maybe the closest, but the instrumentation isn't quite there, or at least doesn't fit what I feel the actual best version would have. Lol I'm crazy maybe. But I bet you have a song like this, where there's this ghost version in your head, the ideal version, that doesn't actually exist.

Summertime

I Fought The Law maybe? Bobby Fuller Four, The Clash and the Dead Kennedys all did classic versions, I've never actually heard the original Crickets version though.

I'm sure I've had such thoughts about a few Bacharach songs! Like there's a recording from a TV appearance or a demo or whatever and couple of recordings that *did* get a commercial release. One of those instances as a B-side, perhaps. But the ideal version would really need to merge the best aspects all of them. Infuriatingly, I can't actually name the really good examples off the top of my head!

I have this with "Stealin', Stealin'." I spent ages listening to every version I could find, before accepting that I'd probably heard the Arlo Guthrie version as a kid and mentally subbed in someone else's voice for Arlo's.

"Because the Night" is one where I know the version I want doesn't exist: I want one that has Bruce's lyrics but is sung more like Patti Smith's version, and (I know this is an unpopular opinion) doesn't have a guitar solo.

Surely "Stealin" as by the Memphis Jug Band is the definitive take?
For "Trouble In Mind" I'd offer Crockett Ward & His Boys with "Ain't That Trouble In Mind" but now that i think about it, that's probably a different song than the one you mean.

a few Bacharach songs

I don't think that either Dionne Warwick or Aretha Franklin got "I Say a Little Prayer" quite right.

I guess this thread is meant for "standards", but the first thing that came to mind reading the title was the Beach Boys' "Can't Wait Too Long"/"Been Way Too Long", which might be one of their greatest pieces of music, but is so far from definitive that it doesn't even have a decided title.

Surely "Stealin" as by the Memphis Jug Band is the definitive take?

Probably more than any other version, but I was responding to the post at the top about having a version in your head that doesn't exist.

I have a marked preference for the Beatles' version, but I think many people would cite "Money (That's What I Want)."

I don't think that either Dionne Warwick or Aretha Franklin got "I Say a Little Prayer" quite right.

You've got to move that to the controversial-opinion thread...think the second is just a bit more brilliant that the first.

Lay Down Your Weary Tune
I'll Keep It with Mine

"Never Can Say Goodbye"

If one band's version of their own song counts, then "True Love Waits."

Blue Moon
My Favorite Things
My Funny Valentine
Smoke Gets in Your Eyes
Solitude
Someone to Watch Over Me
They Can't Take That Away From Me
The Way You Look Tonight

I'll disagree with two of those: Coltrane's "My Favorite Things" and the Platters' "Smoke Gets in Your Eyes."

I was listening to Sebadoh last night, and thinking about how there are some of those Barlow songs that had an acoustic Sebadoh version, an electric Sebadoh version, a Sentridoh version… like there’s no definitive version of “Brand New Love,” it’s just a classic song.

xp I'd say Elvis' "Blue Moon" and Miles Davis' "My Funny Valentine" also come close, but the competition is too fierce to call those versions definitive.

I think "Blue Moon"'s a good one--Marcels are great, and even the Cowboy Junkies put their stamp on it.

I don't think that either Dionne Warwick or Aretha Franklin got "I Say a Little Prayer" quite right

You need to back this up in some way. Please.

They fall on either side of too-little and too-much: Warwick's cool is too dispassionate for the song, while Franklin sounds too confident, and I also don't like the way that a third of the song is thrown to the backing singers.

I think you're looking for the Kristen Chenoweth version

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lwrCOdDIPXU

al green does it best imo

"mama said" (the shirelles tune) is like this for me. for some reason i always thought sam cooke did a version. maybe that's one for the dream covers thread

It would be an interesting counterpoint to Post-1960 Songs of Which There Are At Least Three 5-star, All-Time, Stone-Cold Classic Recorded Versions

“Songs with a bunch of different versions, none of which quite ‘get it right’”

Axel F: Harold Faltermeyer or Crazy Frog?

lol

I guess this thread is meant for "standards"

Nature Boy for me: Nat King Cole's version is too lush; it needs to be edgier, eerier. Ella's version w/Joe Pass is the closest to what's in my head, but it's a little too...sparse?

“Louie Louie”! Kingsmen, Toots and Black Flag are on equal ground for me.

Nor could I choose between Hasil Adkins or The Cramps “She Said”

“Eight Miles High” Byrds, Husker Du, Index.

Probably a bunch of other garage/punk standards, too, like “Stepping Stone”

…and “Morning Dew”

Axel F: Harold Faltermeyer or Crazy Frog?

Latin Rascals, no question.

"Dark End Of The Street"
"We Gonna Move to the Outskirts of Town"

Coltrane's "My Favorite Things"

I just asked the man on the clapham omnibus and he said what's this modal wank, Julie Andrews 4eva and called me something uncouth.

"Dark End Of The Street"

I too thought there was no definitive version of this until I heard James Carr do it. Same with “To Love Somebody.”

…and “Morning Dew”

As near-majestic as some Grateful Dead versions are, the definitive one for me is the Jeff Beck Group’s.

Nature Boy for me

Coltrane

Blue Moon

This is a tough one; I could never choose between Clifford Brown and Elvis (recorded just months apart, iirc).

Tim Rose for the definitive Morning Dew imho

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ytpuIp3WnE

Summertime was mentioned upthread, and while the ultimate version in my head remains the ultra-slow, floating one I heard Booker T. and the MGs perform on a gorgeous day at a blues festival years ago, every time I hear Billy Stewart's I can imagine him thinking "Top THAT, suckah!"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1VkA8HoB5m8

Dark Star - The definitive one is by the Grateful Dead, but which one is definitive?

I love the Jeff Beck/Rod Stewart "Morning Dew."

"Never Can Say Goodbye"

For me it's Isaac Hayes but I love his whole sloooow-it-down thing

"Morning Dew"

Grateful Dead 10/18/74, caught on film for the Grateful Dead Movie and easily the highlight

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fpKQOvlDr-s

The definitive Dark Star is by John Oswald.

Dark Star - The definitive one is by the Grateful Dead, but which one is definitive?

― Am I doomposting? I would say you’re not doomposting enough. (PBKR), Friday, July 1, 2022 9:21 AM (eight minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

It's not my favorite, but it's gotta be 2/27/69 (the Live/Dead Dark Star). The best imo is either 4/8/72 or 8/1/73.

The definitive Dark Star is by John Oswald.

― Noel Emits, Friday, July 1, 2022 9:32 AM (twenty-one seconds ago) bookmarkflaglink

Haha good point. Grayfolded is amazing and I used to listen to it all the time, but once I started exploring the original Dark Stars I hardly ever had the urge to put it on anymore...

Funny How Time Slips Away
Always on My Mind

Yeah agreed. Willie Nelson gave those a good shot but no

"Love Hurts"

Everly Brothers?
Roy Orbison?
Gram Parsons?
Nazareth?

Joan Jett obv

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rhnZ19sbxps

Might sound weird, but 'Nothing Compares 2 U'? I know the Sinead version is well-loved, but the Prince version of a Prince song is almost always definitive, and the Prince version was an unreleased (until recently) demo.

I think the definitive version of that song is actually the original, by The Family.

I'd go more for "When You Were Mine" - as both the Cyndi & Prince versions are so classic / loom so large. I suspect the non-Sinead versions of "Nothing Compares 2 U" are not very widely heard.

(i.e., I guess I disagree that "the Prince version of a Prince song is almost always definitive")

^agree about this

The Family's material is some of Prince's best, really slept on. Prince really shot himself in the foot with the way he treated them.

So different from whatever else he was doing at the time, lots of strings and melodrama.

"Love Hurts"

Everly Brothers?
Roy Orbison?
Gram Parsons?
Nazareth?

I’d pick Gram, followed closely by the version on Jeff Lescher/Janet Beveridge Bean’s Parsons tribute album Jesus Built A Ship To Sing A Song To…which also has the hands-down definitive version of “Hot Burrito #1.”

(The Who played it live a few times in 1967, based on the Everlys version, but never recorded it. It’s not bad, but nowhere near in the running for “definitive.”)

Lulu for "Morning Dew"

Lou Reed's constant tinkering with Velvets material makes it pretty hard to pick a definitive version.

'Stephanie Says' vs 'Caroline Says' is too close to call.

I won't argue with anyone who considers "Do Wah Diddy" a poor choice, but the Exciters' original is great. Ditto the Orlons' "Don't Throw Your Love Away."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8KzRY2ando4

So different from whatever else he was doing at the time, lots of strings and melodrama.

― henry s

clare fischer's first work with prince, afaik. his orchestrations were so good! prince did all this great work and then fucked it up by being a narcissistic abusive shit. oh, to live in an alternate universe where prince learned how to treat other people with basic respect.

King Loser for "Mountain Dew"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ajFdyRYPMnk

Not going to argue against James Carr, but I really x3 like the Roy Hamilton version

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6gEyE5pnRLk

I'd go more for "When You Were Mine" - as both the Cyndi & Prince versions are so classic / loom so large.

Don’t sleep on Mitch Ryder’s (!) version:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eJOy8oT20qs

Almost forgot about that one, thanks!

clare fischer's first work with prince, afaik. his orchestrations were so good!

Sorry, Fischer.

"I Think We're Alone Now." #4 for Tommy James & the Shondells, #1 for Tiffany, a reasonably well-known new wave cover by the Rubinoos, and three more versions written up in the Wikipedia entry--Lene Lovich, Girls Aloud (#4 in the UK), and Billie Joe Armstrong (released on YouTube at the beginning of COVID)--I've never heard. And undoubtedly more.

Paul McCartney has a Clare Fischer story too:

There’s a nice story about this… I heard an album a few years ago by someone off Prince’s label. Paisley Park, called the Family …And there were some string arrangements on it that were really interesting… I thought’ Wow, great. I wonder who this is?’… it said Clare Fischer…So I said to Linda, ‘These arrangements are incredible and it’s this Clare Fischer…some LA chick, I think’…and while she thought it was this kind of great, blonde LA lady she didn’t like them. We found out, actually, it’s this guy who’s about 50 years old, who’s got a grey beard and he’s a great fellow.. .So then Linda was saying ‘I love these arrangements, I love this guy’s work!’ That’s wives, you know!… he did an arrangement which I love, it’s very Hollywood and it’s very… like Doris Day movies, which is a very strange little area, you know, but it’s lovely.

CCR made any song their own, so: "Susie Q," where I love both Creedence's cover and Dale Hawkins' original, and "I Heard It Through the Grapevine," neither cover nor original of which I've ever cared for (perhaps suited for the controversial-music-opinions thread).

how about the slits or tuxedomoon then?

Some would say "Blinded By The Light." Not me though.

Forgot about the Slits; don't know the other. (I guess you could also add "I Put a Spell on You" to CCR's covers, but there I do prefer the original.)

It was actually Gladys Knight who had the original for "Grapevine"...That would seem to be a clear-cut candidate for this thread.

That may seem crazy to some but I think the Shirelles’ « baby it’s you » and « will you still love me tomorrow » could belong here since the Beatles’ cover of the former and King’s version of the latter are both great without replacing the original versions.

I have sympathy for some of these ideas but Grapevine clearly has a definitive, canonical version, no matter what the merits of the others.

Outdoor miner

Shipbuilding. Like Wyatt’s the best but it doesnt read as “definitive”

"mama said" (the shirelles tune) is like this for me. for some reason i always thought sam cooke did a version.

i suspect his "Wonderful World" could be scrambling the circuits here.

Hound Dog

Big Mama Thornton’s version is the one, but most people know it as an Elvis song.

Plenty of covers that charted higher than the originals, but the originals were also well known:

Smooth Criminal
You Got the Love
Lady Marmalade
Killing Me Softly
Valerie
Tainted Love
You Were Always on My Mind
The Tide is High

There were a number of covers of “Hound Dog” between Big Mama Thornton’s original and Elvis’s version. For anyone wondering why Elvis’s arrangement is so different from Thornton’s, it’s because he got it from Freddy Bell and the Bellboys:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fJQ-fDb4M4s

Lots of covers of "This Wheel's on Fire" and as much as I love Siouxsie's, I suppose the Julie Driscoll/Brian Auger version is the definitive?

"Hi Heel Sneakers"

I only recently learned that the original by Tommy Tucker, who wrote it as Robert Higginbotham, was a #11 pop hit in 1964 on Checker Records. Had always assumed it was an ancient blues standard. Everyone who did blues or rock in the 60s has a version on Spotify.

It's not quite what the OP was getting at, but one side-effect of 1980s remix culture is that there's a clutch of pop songs from that decade where it's not obvious which is the definitive version. Typically there was a 7" edit that was okay but not as awesome as the 12" edit - but there were usually several 12" edits, and some other remixes that had flashes of greatness.

I'm specifically thinking of "Close to the Edit" by Art of Noise. But a lot of the acts on ZTT records had that problem. Trevor Horn and Paul Morley were tinkerers. "Relax" and "Two Tribes" have the same issue. In both cases the 12" versions are better than the 7" but there are two equally good 12" versions (and in the case of "Relax" a really bad 12" as well).

Pet Shop Boys' "Always On My Mind" and Paul Hardcastle's "19" are like that as well.

Along similar lines Kraftwerk has spent the last thirty years touring with remixed versions of their repertoire, such that e.g. there's the original twenty-minute "Autobahn" with flutes, the three-minute single version, and the modern ten-minute version that doesn't have flutes on it. As if the band was trying to expunge the memory of flutes.

Obviously one or other of the longer versions is the definitive one, but which one? The original has history on its side, but it sounds like proto-Kraftwerk. The modern version fits the rest of their live set but isn't the original.

There are multiple single versions, too, from the US and the UK.

"Relax" and "Two Tribes" have the same issue. In both cases the 12" versions are better than the 7" but there are two equally good 12" versions (and in the case of "Relax" a really bad 12" as well).

Ha this confused the fuck outta me as a 12-year-old Frankie fan in 1984. I got the “Two Tribes” and “Relax” 12”s, and Welcome To The Pleasuredome, so that’s a total of, what, at least 3-4 different remixes of each song? And then the version of “Two Tribes” used in the video wasn’t on any of those releases!

"Blue Monday '88" is generally the go-to version on American Alternative Radio.

I don’t think it’s been mentioned already but « Louie Louie » might qualify.

It's been mentioned already. I don't want there to be a definitive, nail-in-the-coffin version of anything, where I'm just thinking, "Oh yeah, still perfect, I remember when I first heard it, and that other time," instead of really listening any more. I've got my favorites, but always glad for somebody to show me something about a song I hadn't thought of, like Bettye LaVette can do, esp. on Things Have Changed, her album of Dylan covers. Also Bryan Ferry's "A Hard Rain's A-Gonna Fall," Narareth's unstoppable death-screeh "Hollis Brown."

Narareth's signature screech "Love Hurts" is not repeat not directly comparable to to Gram Parsons x Emmlylou Harris's grand harmony drama, but both push forward through the pain of disilusion, ov "love" as an internalized sucker's game: "Some folks fool themselves, I guess, but they're not fooling meee." And then there's the Everly Brothers version, the first, maybe, which, I'm told, is cited in the recent Yelvet Underground doc as the or an origin point of Sweet Jane" (I can hear it more in the slower version of the Velvet's live in 1969 album).

I've never heard a bad version of "Summertime," but fave is Big Brother & The Holding Company's live in-the-studio rendition in Howard Alk's great doc Janis, which I guess is the same or similar to the one on record.

Actually the Everlys did at least two versions, both here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CepdYQrG30g

Don't know if this really fits here – but the version of Freyda Payne's "Band of Gold" (a song I love) that I primarily know is labeled "Re-Record" – don't know when it was done – but when I listen to the original, I actually prefer the re-record. I assume the original must be more generally well-known, but both show up in a search (on comps, etc.) in equal measure...

*Freda (sorry)

By far the best - and these days the most popular - version of Rita & The Tiaras' Gone with the Wind is My Love is the longer version but it wasn't unearthed until (iirc) 2009, 40 years after the original release. So it's a bit awkward when it turns up in northern soul playlists or whatever as that wasn't the version which made it a classic.

Also clearly the best version of "Ant Rap" is the one in the video - a barely-disguised Flowers of Romance trojan horse in the UK top three - which IIRC is also the version on the single(?) (I don't own it) but which sadly isn't the one on the album, or on most of his compilations, but not all of his compilations(??) etc.

It pleases me that Ilxor has finally embraced "Ant Rap". I think I've mentioned before that I trained myself to spell accommodate and millennium by saying "accommodate is two-two and millennium is two-two and Mississippi is two-two-two and accommodate is two-two" etc while rocking backwards and forwards on public transport for hours on end. It worked. What did I lose?

Along similar lines "Ant Rap" taught me the line-up of Adam and the Ants. What did I lose? I can recite the names of the people who were in Adam and the Ants.

Now, I realise it's appalling crap, but it fascinates me that a band who were at that point in time experimenting with songs that had a chant-heavy twin-drum rhythmic assault should make the mental leap that they could also have a stab at the nascent genre of hip-hop as well albeit that they forgot to add any kind of groove or rhythmic variation. There were a bunch of bands at the time who might have made a hip-hop record - The Fall, Public Image Limited, Gang of Four - but the thing back then was reggae. Bands put one reggae song on their album. e.g. The Clash. There was always the embarrassing reggae number. They ignored hip-hop. Except Adam and the Ants, who could see the future. They could see the future and it seared their brains. Embarrassing is two-two.

i went looking for “Sweet Jane” today and i feel like none of the versions are actually the true version

The Loaded version and the Live 1969 version are pretty much different songs, so two for the price of, we win either way!