Rock & Roll Hall Of Fame Nominees 2023

I'll do the usual two lists.

Subjective, if I only had five: Missy Elliot, Joy Division/New Order, Spinners (can't believe they're not in already), Tribe Called Quest, Warren Zevon.

Objective: all of those, add Willie Nelson for sure, maybe Kate Bush and George Michael. Cyndi Lauper is tough: one hugely important album and not much else.

Cyndi Lauper will be acknowledged for her work forging the worlds of rock and wrestling.

Also Joy Division/New Order should be in separately but I guess somebody was looking for something that would finally do the trick.

Once you're off the ballot after having been on, are you off forever? I thought for sure there was momentum for Dionne Warwick. Do they have, like, a Veteran's Committee with the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame?

I will absolutely be voting for:

Iron Maiden
Soundgarden
Warren Zevon

I will consider voting for:

Sheryl Crow
Joy Division + New Order (an absurd concept)
Cyndi Lauper
Rage Against the Machine

I will not vote for any of the others, either because they're not "rock 'n' roll" in even the broadest sense, or I just don't like their music. Not telling which is which.

Kate Bush - yes
Sheryl Crow - no
Missy Elliott - fuck yes
Iron Maiden - MEGA FUCK YES
Joy Division + New Order - absolutely
Cyndi Lauper - yes
George Michael - yes
Willie Nelson - yes
Rage Against The Machine - no
Soundgarden - yes
The Spinners - definitely
A Tribe Called Quest - yes
The White Stripes - no
Warren Zevon - don't know them well but from what i know yes

xps I think you can come back ... Chaka's been in and out over the years, and Femi Kuti sure as hell better get another shot in the future

I vote only for things that aren't technically rock 'n' roll because fuck off

as usual "Burn down the R&RHoF" isn't an option, smh

Subjective, if I only had five: Missy Elliot, Joy Division/New Order, Spinners (can't believe they're not in already), Tribe Called Quest, Warren Zevon

Swap Zevon for Kate Bush and that's my ballot

i think it's been long established that it's really more of an overall music hall of fame at this point rather than strictly genre specific.

and that's fine! i like it that way

Would vote for the Spinners, Missy Elliott, and Tribe. Surprised the Spinners weren't already in.

And I didn't realize "but that's not rock 'n' roll!" was still a thing outside of the Steve Hoffman forums.

Yeah, you can come back to the ballot after dropping off. Chic was nominated in 2003, 2006-09, 2011, and 2013-17.

the five i'd vote for: tribe, joy division/new order, zevon, kate bush, iron maiden

soundgarden and rage are my runners up. feels incredibly dumb that there's a rock and roll hall of fame and iron maiden isn't in there, but what can you do

Do they have, like, a Veteran's Committee with the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame?

I think the equivalent of this is the Musical Excellence category, which iirc started out as a way to honor sidemen and session players but recently inducted LL Cool J and Judas Priest.

https://www.rockhall.com/inductees/categories/musical-excellence

it's funny how Kate Bush went from being a near impossibility to I think maybe a lock due to Stranger Things

Also Joy Division/New Order should be in separately but I guess somebody was looking for something that would finally do the trick.

― Chris L, Wednesday, February 1, 2023 9:09 AM (one hour ago) bookmarkflaglink

Same deal with the Faces/Small Faces. Two very different bands, but there was no other way each band was getting in separately (especially the Small Faces).

from what I can know about him based on his work, writing style etc etc, I dislike Bill Wyman. He is one of those chicago area rockist he —or maybe neo-rockist— dudes like Dero and Greg Kot who like ROCK, don't seem to understand anything beyond that, and when they try to present an understanding of hip-hop or pop music or anything else, appear very "HELLO FELLOW KIDS" and seem to be unduly influenced by Dave marsh… every time the RRhoF ceremony comes and goes, he updates his own ranking of the most to least worthy inductees, and his views are most often asinine and banal: if he was a poster here and presented his views as such in an unvarnished manner, he would be roundly jeered…

but he made an excellent point in the last such update: instead of the disingenous backdoor "early influences" and "excellence in music" booby prizes, the nominating committee should just come out and say "we are the nominating committee, and we are putting these two artists/acts in, and that's it, no voting, they're going in." The electorate —older bizzers, former alt paper lifers and other over 50s who truly care about voting and jealously guard their ability to do so— are never going to give the committee the results they (or most ILMniks, for that matter) want… doing so would not violate any principle or any such thing…

I'm also told by someone who should know that the journo/bizzers on the nominating committee, particularly the older people in their 60s/70s , are intimidated by Morello, Grohl and Questlove, like "geez, these guys are real musicians, and we're nerds who've created nothing or suits who've created nothing good, we should do what they say"; which is why Morello can push Priest in through the back door, and will surely try to do the same with Maiden…

Maiden has put in the work.

yeah there's zero rationale for metallica being in the hall and not maiden

lol I was going to say, there are over 100 million reasons. But while a quick google didn't come up with anything definitive, Maiden is surprisingly competitive on the record sale front!

Maiden should be in for several reasons:

• one of the best live bands on the planet
• one of the most instantly recognizable mascots
• Bruce Dickinson's scream on "The Number of the Beast"

i mean the whole thing is dumb but the fact that blue oyster cult will never make it really infuriates me.

Maiden, Kate and JD/NO are my immediate three locks; Missy and Tribe are my likely remainder. That said I really do want George in there.

Blame Will Ferrell tbh

yeah that's part of it :/

I think Willie Nelson's got a lane pretty wide open to get in here

Willie Nelson - I'm surprised he isn't already in

I pretty much assume he's in in a walk similar to Dolly last year. And if Maiden gets in as is right I want them to duet on "On the Road Again."

If Willie Nelson does not get in I will lose all respect for this storied institution.

Did you guys watch Dolly’s “rock ‘n’ roll” song at the end of last year’s ceremony?

I think the Joy Division/New Order grouping is okay--for the reason Tarfumes gave, and also because it's an American institution, and Joy Division didn't have the impact there that they did in Britain, so it's a way to acknowledge them, even though it's probably more of a New Order nomination. I've said many times in these threads that a British HOF, with Slade and the Jam and the Pet Shop Boys, etc., would be really interesting.

I think the Stranger Things/"Running Up That Hill" thing will help Kate Bush. So: Cramps 2024!

Maiden deserves their own hall of fame, they transcend this institution.

I think the Stranger Things/"Running Up That Hill" thing will help Kate Bush.

― clemenza, Wednesday, February 1, 2023 11:45 AM (two minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

don't really get this. even if she doesn't get in this time, the hoopla has undoubtedly helped her establish her bonafides as an artist that carries serious cultural and commercial weight, especially in the u.s.

So you also think it will help her? I'm confused.

no idea how they'll fit the entire Maiden experience into whatever dusty corner of the Hall they shove them into. for one of the defining acts of the genre to be on the waiting list, ugh....foo fighters being enshrined before them is like collective soul getting in while led zep remains locked out.

if i had five: kate bush, iron maiden, joy division/new order, willie, tribe

i'm assuming of course the reality is it'll be sheryl crow, cyndi lauper, rage, soundgarden, white stripes

So you also think it will help her? I'm confused.

― clemenza, Wednesday, February 1, 2023 11:53 AM (two minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

yes it will definitely help her, even if it means she gets in another time, not this year

i'm pro-soundgarden, tbh

also realizing i misread your post and thought you said it wouldn't help her lol xp to clemenza

from what I can know about him based on his work, writing style etc etc, I dislike Bill Wyman. He is one of those chicago area rockist he —or maybe neo-rockist— dudes like Dero and Greg Kot who like ROCK, don't seem to understand anything beyond that, and when they try to present an understanding of hip-hop or pop music or anything else, appear very "HELLO FELLOW KIDS" and seem to be unduly influenced by Dave marsh…

I used to read Wyma in the late '80s/early '90s, but his schtick was mostly propping up a kind of phony "authenticity" -- he absolutely trashed Truth Or Dare (and Madonna in general) for the film's supposed lack of "honesty," and there was some not-exactly-subtle misogyny in said trashing (I never got a Marsh vibe from Wyman in the least, and Marsh loved Truth Or Dare). Wyman is indeed hapless outside of (and often inside) his little box of "rock." On one episode of Sound Opinions he went on about how "free jazz" is "when you do what you want and you don't listen to the other musicians." To their credit, the co-hosts tried to correct him and rein him in, but Wyman kept digging. (See also his bizarre contention that "Rock Lobster" was not influenced by Yoko Ono, despite the B-52s explicitly and frequently stating otherwise.)

I think we can all (mostly) agree that all nominees deserve to be in some manner of hall of fame, but when I think about the R&RHOF it seems like the whole point is the ceremony, which implies the live performance, and a "classy" opportunity/excuse for certain people/combinations of people to perform one more time/pay tribute to people that have passed that are responsible for celebrated music...

And in that spirit I would be excited about maybe Kate Bush agreeing to sing on television once more, or Meg White playing the drums one more time, or Soundgarden with guest singers ala the Nirvana induction which I thought was excellent, or a similar kinda thing with George Michael, but y'know give all these people their flowers imo

Just want to point out that Link Wray is still not in. Not under "musical excellence," not an "early influence," nothing.

He is one of those chicago area rockist he —or maybe neo-rockist— dudes like Dero and Greg Kot who like ROCK

Beside the point of your post, but this is a little unfair to Kot. He's perhaps typical of critics of his generation in his affection for rock music and assuming its place in the center of the critical discourse, but he doesn't venerate the values of RAWK the way DeRo does, and his tastes are considerably more eclectic; he routinely champions other genres.

when Cornell passed I listened to a ton of Soundgarden and that band was incredible, I hadn't really listened to them closely, but what a group of musicians.

xp (Like, the Charlotte Adigery album was in his top 5 last year.)

Soundgarden was so fuckin good, i spent a fair amount of time during the pandemic listening to them while holed up and they're better than anyone remembers, just a deep rich sound and with one of the great singers in rock music.

some of the rock bands that have made it in during their period of eligibility are embarrassing to think about in comparison.

I think I posted this somewhere else, and it might be behind a paywall, but Marcus and Jon Landau talking about the HOF:

https://greilmarcus.substack.com/p/back-and-forth-with-jon-landau-on

(If it is behind a paywall, Landau has Link Wray on his list of 19 artists he thinks should be in. And he talks about the whole definition of "rock and roll" thing--Landau used to chair the nominating committee.)

Since you only get one vote here, I went with the Spinners. Not that they're necessarily the most obvious pick from that list, but they're the one that most should have been in long ago.

i know i know Page is parodying himself st this point but i see him so rarely now i forget what a dork he is

sidebar: the other night i saw the video for Coverdale Page’s “Take Me Me For A Little While” and Page was playing that stupid fucking guitar-harp monstrosity with a straight face … sheer nonsense lol

Oh wow, when the guitar-harp is only the fifth or sixth-most ridiculous thing in your video...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p-ooOf_rih0

That song is heinous but at least the solo redeems it a little. Not sure why he’s on a lift in the video

not sure why almost anything in that video tbh

Here's who is newly eligible this year, allegedly: https://futurerocklegends.com/Year/2024/

50 Cent
After Forever
Annie
Ariel Pink's Haunted Graffiti
Bad Meets Evil
BBMak
Biffy Clyro
Black Label Society
Blue Man Group
Brad Paisley
Buckcherry
Calla
The Caretaker
Caretaker
Chevelle
Chris Cornell
CKY
Clipse
Coheed & Cambria
Dido
The Distillers
Drowning Pool
Elbow
Eve
Explosions in the Sky
Fantomas
Feist
Further Seems Forever
Gogol Bordello
Halestorm
High on Fire
Hot Hot Heat
Ill Niño
Ja Rule
Jason Mraz
Jennifer Lopez
Jessica Simpson
Joey McIntyre
John Mayer
John Paul Jones
Jordan Knight
Kelis
Laura Veirs
Le Tigre
Lil Wayne
Los Hermanos
Ludacris
M. Ward
Macy Gray
Mandy Moore
Mates of State
My Morning Jacket
Neal Morse
Phil Lesh and Friends
Phoenix
Pillar
Plain White Ts
Radio 4
Rilo Kiley
Röyksopp
Shaman's Harvest
The Shins
Sick Puppies
Sisqó
Sonata Arctica
Splender
Tal Bachman
Ted Leo & the Pharmacists
Tegan & Sara
Thursday
Trapt
UnderOath
Warhorse
Watain
Westlife

Okay I am voting for Blue Man Group

tal bachman in a walk

The Caretaker?

Lil Wayne would seem to cover commercial success/critical acclaim above and beyond...A couple of weeks ago, I heard the Pet Shop Boys on consecutive days out in the world: "What Have I Done to Deserve This?" in a mall record store, then "Always on My Mind" on the radio. I used to resign myself to the idea that they'll never go in because they're more of a British institution, and the HOF has a decided American slant. I've changed my mind on that. It's silly that the PSB aren't in. Will they get a second chance at some point?

I doubt Clipse, Phoenix, Rilo Kiley or The Shins will ever get in (and I'm not even sure any of them deserve to be inducted - only Clipse has made a truly great album IMHO), but I like enough of their stuff to vote for them. (Despite the taint of Garden State, the Shins have made two, maybe three albums I genuinely like.)

don't blame me, i voted for Plain White Ts

If New Order/Joy Division can get nominated together, why not their Canadian equivalent Randy and Tal?

Mates of State, wow. imagine making a list of bands eligible for the RNRHOF and including Mates of State.

that said, i've always though the hall needed more Mraz

That would be pretty awesome if Ted Leo & the Pharmacists get in. I don't think it'll ever happen - not even a nomination - but Leo just strikes me as one of the most decent guys in rock, and he's still doing it after all those years. The story about his wife's illness and everything he did to keep things afloat is moving. I still end up seeing him a lot because of his free shows and opening sets, and over the past eight years he's the only act I know who's managed to give thoughtful, intelligent and earnest pleas to his audience to politically engage without resorting to insults or working himself up into a rage-filled rant.

Feel like "The Caretaker" and "Caretaker" are gonna split the Caretaker vote.

Nobody seems like a slam dunk until Beyonce in 2028. (Kanye is also eligible that year, but I wonder now how that's going to go.)

does the hall have an old-timers' committee like baseball? They Might Be Giants should be in already!

I was trying to find the Harold Baines here, the absolutely average artist who might have the longevity and industry goodwill to make it, the Foo Fighters rule I suppose, but no one fits the bill.

(oh, I see Beyonce and Kanye are actually eligible in 2027 bc they released singles in 2002)

(xpost) That argument is basically made for Ted Leo just above. I don't think you can do that for this HOF. If you took all the reprobates (and much worse) out and started replacing them with good people, it'd be filled with, I don't know, Bruce Hornsby and the guy who sang "Good Morning Starshine." It wouldn't feel right.

Watching the (edited) 2023 Induction Ceremony on ABC…. Bernie Taupin’s digs at Wenner were widely reported, but I hadn’t read about how his comments (celebrating diversity at the ceremony) also featured a passionate defense of “pop”:

“Diversity in genres and styles is exciting and relevant. When it exactly was when the term ‘pop’ became a dirty word, I don’t know. (…) Every artist in this musical institution and every artist inducted on this stage tonight is pop(…).”

Missy was great and her speech was very affecting

Watain

Yeah no that’s never happening.

Looking at that list above, I guess Coheed & Cambria, Lil Wayne and Phoenix look the most likely to get in?

Fully aware that this says more about me than them, but I have literally never heard of Coheed & Cambria.

None of these will get in for a while but here are the ones I think they'll eventually go for:

50 Cent
John Mayer
Jennifer Lopez
Lil Wayne

Coheed & Cambria are an emo/prog band with a huge cult following, basically Tool/NIN for millennials. Not my thing but I’m sure they’ll get voted in at some point.

Trapt is going in

(xpost) I looked them up...They've had a few Top 10 albums, but in all honesty, they seem to have a somewhat narrow, genre-specific fan base. I know I don't keep up, but there's never been an inductee I've never even heard of. If you're right, I have to believe "at some point" means decades from now. I suspect there are a lot of more famous possibilities to get to first.

One example among dozens, probably hundreds (listening to a sale CD I bought last week): TLC. Says here they've been eligible since 2018.

https://futurerocklegends.com/Artist/TLC/

(Their "HOF Indicators" are interesting--most are good, but the only critical barometer looks like the Rolling Stone list, so they'd need a lot more there, I'd say. And they definitely need to add something commercial/sales/chart-based.)

The last 50s-associated artists to be inducted were several backing bands in 2012. The last 60s-associated artists to be inducted were the Zombies in 2019. (Proper induction, not being snuck in a back door.)
Can we assume that the Hall is done with adding acts that are primarily associated with those decades?

Probably, tho there are at least these perpetual snubees to consider (and how many years they've been eligible):

Johnny Burnette and the Rock N Roll Trio	42
Connie Francis	40
Jan & Dean	38
Dick Dale	36
Peter, Paul & Mary	36
Toots & the Maytals	36
Barry White	35
Cher	33
The Guess Who	33
The Sonics	33
Captain Beefheart	32
Jim Croce	32
Love	32
The Monkees	32
Scott Walker	32
Tommy James & the Shondells	32
Harry Nilsson	31
Can	30
Jethro Tull	30
Silver Apples	30
The Carpenters	29
King Crimson	29
Kool & the Gang	29
Nick Drake	29
Three Dog Night	29
Diana Ross	28
Emerson, Lake & Palmer	28
Sparks	27
Big Star	26
Blue Öyster Cult	26
Neu!	26
The Pointer Sisters	25

I'd imagine The Monkees will get inducted before Jennifer Lopez and Lil Wayne ... but still probably after John Mayer

The Monkees are still the devil to these Rock Hall guys.

Also Silver Apples won't get any acknowledgement in a million years.

Top of the list: the Shangri-Las.

^Yeah, they should be included in that "perpetual snubees" accounting...

surprised Nick Drake never got in

He keeps emailing the hall asking why not

Wonder if Wenner was the main anti-Monkees zealot?

no ones' lol'ed at the idea of Ariel Pink in the RRHOF yet? Will be more likely to get a Presidential Medal of Freedom

Amazed that Dick Dale's not in.

Dionne Motherfuckin' Warwick

Huh, I had not previously known her middle name.

A psychic made her change it to "Motherfuckin'e"

walk on by
don't
fuck

I recorded this from ABC a few days ago and watching parts of it now. Miguel, Adam Levine and Carrie Underwood are singing George Michael's songs. They're not bad at all but makes you realize that George Michael is one of a kind.

I said the same thing! (My wife thought Miguel did a pretty good job…)

Tom Morello speech from Rage Against the Machine was, by far, the best thing of this years show. Inspiring:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3DSf53xiYOg