King Crimson vs Camel Vs P.I.L. Vs Yes/ELP vs Genesis(p.Gabriel Era)Vs Siouxsie & the Banshees vs Man Vs Groundhogs

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King Crimson vs Camel Vs P.I.L. Vs Yes/ELP vs Genesis(p.Gabriel Era)Vs Siouxsie & the Banshees Vs Man Vs Groundhogs

Which is cool and not so cool. Whats worth checking out. Are Yes and ELP as everyone says? (i think so)
I mention P.i.L. because they are pretty Proggy so are Siouxsie & the Banshees,yet remain 'cool' bands.
Is any prog worth checking out? or do we call it 'Art Rock?

Peter M, Sunday, 1 December 2002 04:49 (twenty-one years ago) link

Or Rush?

Peter M, Sunday, 1 December 2002 04:49 (twenty-one years ago) link

Rush are awesome and are the only band on here who are still making worthwhile music. He used to sing sort of like Robert Plant if he never got laid, kind of like a very shrill and strident medieval elf king. He calmed down a bit in the early 80s and sounded like this strident geeky androgynous prophet of truth or something. Now he's a bit like Tori Amos. The band plays a creative kind of hyper-technical pomp-rock for music majors, pretty sophisticated rhythmically and structurally as rock bands go. Sometimes they mix electronics with guitars in interesting ways. It's fun to like them because anyone who's not a complete asshole responds with either amusement or disgust if you say that you like them. They've done some really crappy stuff too though. Yes were good when they made pretty English jangle-pop with lush harmonies and didn't bother with the light classical instrumental crap. Genesis did some lovable stuff too. On the stuff I've heard Peter Gabriel sings these artfaggy mythological stories over King's Quest-ish music. Siouxsie & the Banshees did some good things at the very start of their career but I haven't listened in a while. It's sort of like punk rock as done by Xena. King Crimson and P. I. L. are mostly things that you say you like to impress people but they sound cool and manly in small doses. Whatever I've heard by ELP was made ridiculous by the 'singing' but Emerson managed to get in a cool organ solo in "Lucky Man". I haven't heard the other bands.

sundar subramanian (sundar), Sunday, 1 December 2002 06:28 (twenty-one years ago) link

I only have heard Split by The Groundhogs. Its a rock album about Schizophrenia,but not in a naff way like Pink Floyd would do.
I know bands like Queens Of the Stone Age,Underworld,Julian Cope,Blur,Fu Manchu,Nebula,The ubiquitous John Lydon etc are fans.

Peter M, Sunday, 1 December 2002 06:37 (twenty-one years ago) link

Is all prog rock something to avoid,or are there a few gems?
People swear by King Crimson,Can,Amon Duul2.Neu!,Roxy Music , Van Der Graaf Generator. Are they as bad as Yes? or completely different?

Peter M, Sunday, 1 December 2002 06:41 (twenty-one years ago) link

Dude, you just started a thread on VdGG today. And why are you asking about Yes if you've already got an opinion formed?

sundar subramanian (sundar), Sunday, 1 December 2002 06:47 (twenty-one years ago) link

Just trying to get the thread moving.Thats all. Most people see 'prog' and ignore it.
And i may have an opinion on yes,but i'd like to see some others.
Perhaps Yes were on of those bands who had "great early stuff when they were underground". One of the usual cliches dragged out about bands.

Peter M, Sunday, 1 December 2002 06:55 (twenty-one years ago) link

Second Edition/Metal Box by PIL is a great album. The first one and Flowers of Romance have some interesting music. Other than that, I couldn't get into their other music too much. Jah Wobble owns that second album, his basslines are techtonic. Keith Levene definitely had his own thing going. (If you like those early PIL recordings, there is a pretty indepth interview with Keith Levene at Perfect Sound Forever that gets into pretty good detail about the band at that time.)

I never listened to anything by King Crimson for the longest time mostly because my first exposure to anything about them was Fripp coming off like a major prick in some interviews, slagging on alot of differerent guitar players. I eventually had a band mate that was a serious guitar person and loved KC, so he played me some of their music and I was suprised to find it had some music that was pretty good. Red is probably my favorite LP, as that one has a raw heavy sound. Discipline with the later band is also pretty consistent. There are also some good music on the first one, Larks Tounges in Aspic & Starless & Bible Black. Those albums are a bit more spotty, with some songs that don't really work for me. They are definitely not a "songwriters" band and I think some of their best music is when they get more instrumental.

Yes has a few songs that are pretty good, but I have only listened to a few of their albums, which seem to have at least one or two tracks that just don't seem to fit. At least in the early 70s, they seemed to have a real democratic way of letting everyone in the band have their say on at least one track, so you have inserted these odd instrumentals in between some music that sounds very well crafted. Steve Howe can really play the guitar. I'd probably like to pick up some of their LPs, if I found them in a dollar bin.

I hate ELP. "Lucky Man" to me is a nails on a chalkboard song, I've always despised it. Some of those old Moog sounds are pretty good, but Keith Emerson lays it out like Yngwie.

The rest I have no opinion about. I've never heard much by Siouxee & The Banchees and have always been a bit curious about their music.

earlnash, Sunday, 1 December 2002 07:42 (twenty-one years ago) link

I think The Yes Album contains some beautiful music, particularly "Starship Trooper" and the whole second side. I also like bits of Fragile. I think these were their most popular albums. (I don't like "Lucky Man" as a song, though I don't hate it as much as earlnash, but the organ solo seems to stand out in my mind.)

sundar subramanian (sundar), Sunday, 1 December 2002 15:15 (twenty-one years ago) link

Rush is an awesome band. Who else can tour without an opening band and play three hours from their huge catalogue of music? Their live shows are outstanding-sticklers for reproducing the same sound as from the albums. They're also an interesting band to follow along their musical development from the acid rock Caress of Steel through their radio friendly Moving Pictures up to now with Vapor Trails-which sees them moving away from the synths. I think they have lost the "Prog Rock" title though-anyone agree/disagree?

Kerr, Sunday, 1 December 2002 15:30 (twenty-one years ago) link

I've loved all of these bands at one point or another (except Man and the Groundhogs), it's true. PiL made my favorite record of all-time, so they win out for me.

I want a Jah Wobble bobblehead.

Andy K (Andy K), Sunday, 1 December 2002 16:18 (twenty-one years ago) link

I like all ov thee bands mentioned by Peter M Xcept for Camel. Man's "Live at the Padgett Rooms, Penarth" is great. Kieth Levene from PIL used to roadie for yes, according to the pretty good interview in thee latest "Wire", and apparently he was a big phan hehehe. My picks for the bands mentiobned are as follows:
King Crimson - "Red"
Camel - meh, don't care
P.I.L. first album
Yes - "The Yes Album"
ELP - "Trilogy" (ELP were extremely patchy IMO)
Genesis - "The Lamb Lies Down on Broadway
Siouxsie and the Banshees - "Once upon a Time/The Singles"
Man - "Live at the padgett Rooms, Penarth"
Groundhogs - "Split"

N0RM4N PH4Y, Sunday, 1 December 2002 17:09 (twenty-one years ago) link

Ru$h suck. Pompous prog rock twats.

Mal, Sunday, 1 December 2002 17:20 (twenty-one years ago) link

Pah. Rush r0x0r. "Xanadu" 0\/\|\|z.

N0RM4N PH4Y, Sunday, 1 December 2002 17:51 (twenty-one years ago) link

King Crimson vs Camel Vs P.I.L. Vs Yes/ELP vs Genesis(p.Gabriel Era)Vs Siouxsie & the Banshees Vs Man Vs Groundhogs
Which is cool and not so cool. Whats worth checking out. Are Yes and ELP as everyone says? (i think so)
I mention P.i.L. because they are pretty Proggy so are Siouxsie & the Banshees,yet remain 'cool' bands.
Is any prog worth checking out? or do we call it 'Art Rock?

King Crimson- Once kicked major ass, gradually mutating from their origins as a straightforward symphonic rock band into a kind of proto-metal meets Bartok sound in '73-74(their apex). Re-emerged in the 80s, taking their old ethos and merging it with new wave sensibilities of the period. Re-emerged in the mid-90s, and (IMO) have gradually declined into self-parody. Best albums: Larks' Tongues in Aspic (1973), Starless and Bible Black (1974), Red (1974), Discipline (1981).

Camel- Basically, a sound somewhere between Genesis and Pink Floyd. Leader of the band (Andy Latimer) is often compared to David Gilmour, both in guitar style and in singing. They weren't particularly innovative or anything (they came a bit later in the game), but kind of a steady favorite. Best albums: Mirage (1974), The Snow Goose (1975), Moonmadness (1976), also their comeback album Dust and Dreams (1991) is notable for being a concept album not about fairies and trolls, but about The Great Depression (based on The Grapes of Wrath).

P.I.L.- I like Flowers of Romance for their more experimental leanings, and Album/Compact Disc/etc. for the more edgy-pop leanings.

Yes- You can't go wrong with anything they recorded from 1971-1977 (then again, I'm a former fanboy and still quite a big fan). The Yes Album (1971) makes the best intro. Best albums are Close to the Edge (1972) and Relayer (1974), followed closely by Tales from Topographic Oceans (1973), Going for the One (1977) and Fragile (1972). Also worth checking out for different phases of their career: Yes (1969), Drama (1980), 90125 (1983). Listen to the middle section of "Ritual" on Yesshows (1980) if you doubt just how fucked-up Yes could get when they were at their peak.

ELP- The most bombastic out of those you listed; thus, either a love it or hate it affair. Careened from ridiculously complex keyboard-oriented pieces (written by Emerson, the strongest link) to lurv-rawk ballads (written by Lake, the weakest link). Best albums: the first five, except Pictures at an Exhibition.

Genesis- Everything from the Peter Gabriel era was pretty decent musically; the lyrics, as usual for prog rock, are usually rather silly (and Gabriel's style of lyric-writing back then was a bit busy for my tastes; you can expect lots of goofy puns, double-entendres, etc.). Best albums: I'd say Trespass (1971), made before Phil Collins even entered the picture, is a terrific album, despite the fact that the lyrics show they were obviously teenagers. With Phil on board, I'd say Selling England by the Pound is the most consistent.

Joe (Joe), Sunday, 1 December 2002 17:56 (twenty-one years ago) link

I downloaded one of King Crimsons 80s albums. It was very influenced by Talking Heads or even later Parliament(instrumental wise,not singing). 'Discipline'.
Downloaded 'red' very good power rock album.I can see why Punks liked it.
ThraK rather unbelievanly sounded like Bends era Raidohead.

Peter M, Sunday, 1 December 2002 18:18 (twenty-one years ago) link

(BTW, Peter, there are C/D threads on most of these artists as well as several threads about prog in the archives.)

sundar subramanian (sundar), Sunday, 1 December 2002 20:34 (twenty-one years ago) link

Thanks. I'll search them out when i have time.
Downloading some songs mentioned by each band to check them out.
Thanks for all recommendations.

Peter m, Sunday, 1 December 2002 20:41 (twenty-one years ago) link


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