Nilsson - C or D?

Out of interest, what else did Malkmus include on his list?

The Fall - Hex Enduction Hour (yup)
Sonic Youth - (spelt Psonick Youth) Sister
Kraftwerk - the Man Machine
Wire - Chairs Missing
some CCR album, I can't remember which one

I remember feeling surprised/redeemed/something that 'Chairs Missing' was on there cuz it's one of my favorite albums

His first two albums, Pantomime Shadow Show and Aerial Ballet, are favorites of mine, too.

Also, for pure fabulousity: the Shangri-Las doing "Paradise," one of his first songs. If you haven't heard this, track it down immediately. It's the Shangri-Las singing a Harry Nilsson song, for Christ's sake! Could anything be better?

This album is GORGEOUS.

I think I've already blabbed over "Without You" and the embarrassing Pavlovian reaction I have to its opening bars elsewhere on ILM.

I'd love to hear this Newman material. The Camden version is 35 tracks - for only 8 quid (well, it includes Harry). What am I waiting for?

The other album talked up has been Pussy Cats but I find this difficult to listen to given the state his previously amazing voice is in. Too many brandy alexanders. The albums after this his voice recovers somewhat but it's never quite the same again.

Son of Schmillsson is also worth checking out especially the master stroke of getting the OAP's from the local old folks home to sing on a song called I'd Rather Be Dead. Not only a great voice and a great songwriter but a great sense of humour too.

One of my favorite songwriters. Nilsson Schmilson and Son of Schmilson are complete classics. His songs hold up so well, it's pretty amazing. And I can't really see how Elliot Smith or Badly Drawn Boy without him.

The story about him blowing out his vocal cords when he was recording Pussy Cats because he didn't want to let Lennon know is pretty tragic.

But ....man....Nilsson Sings Newman.....phew....extraordinary...

A friend of mine in college swore by Harry's later albums, like 'Duit on mon dei.' I haven't heard them myself. Thoughts?

Not completely sure, but it must be one of his very earliest albums.

Joy to the world was a beautiful girl
But to me Joy meant only sorrow

Does anyone have either of those two double-CD sets comprised from his last late 70s records? I like the few songs I have from them on comps, and I'm intrigued...

Thoughts about his best record? Those first three are all filled with absolutely brilliant pop confections, but also some filler. Pussy Cats is pretty terrific in places -- "Don't Forget Me" being one of his best twisted ballads.

You're not the only choo choo train,
That was left out in the rain,
The day after Santa came.
You're not the only cherry delight,
That was left in the night,
And gave up without a fight.

He also apparently finished his last album right before he died in 1994. Would love to hear that...

And??!? Sadly, I am Soul Seekless right now...

Hours later I caught Harry heading for the hotel bar with friends and I asked him about a rumor I heard that their might be a POINT II in the works (animated sequel and album to The Point) and he said there was some talks about it. He said he wanted to call it "Back To The Point". Obviously, it was never made - but he did seem to have some fondness for The Point. At this point in his career Harry's voice was raspier than ever - and he never did recover to the point where he released anything like his earlier albums. I think he had just done the Popeye Soundtrack, which of course he didn't sing himself. But now hearing that there may be demos to it I certainly would love to hear what that sounded like.

My last recollection about Harry is a bittersweet one... he decided to join the Beatlefest house band onstage during one of their sets, and although it got a standing ovation from the audience - it was more out of appreciation for the man than it was for the vocal performance anyone was hearing that night. Harry was obviously drinking and at times when he spoke you either couldn't hear him or understand him - but I remember just the same how everybody went crazy for him. How could you not? I mean - this was Nilsson.

"Put a lot of echo on it if you can..."

heard some of the Popeye demos on WFMU

Did Smile have a lot of overdubs? Edits yes, but not aware of it having lots of multi-tracked vocs.

is this a joke...

there are tons of multi-tracked vocals all over the Beach Boys work from like '66 on, including demos/early studio versions where Brian would do all the voices himself etc.

and the stuff on Smile is particularly dense

not to take away from Nilsson - who was an incredible singer and vocal arranger - but he was not unique in this regard, or the first (or the last). Certainly post-1970 there's tons of intricately arranged, densely multi-tracked vocals on pop records, from stuff I hate (like Queen, who definitely went up into the high end of numbers of tracks range) to stuff I love (like the Bee Gees).

Personally I'm a little skeptical of the "118 overdubs" claim in 1970, I'd like to see the tracklist for that, given that the first 24-track recorder wasn't even invented until 4 years later. In 1970 putting 118 tracks on a recording (presumably using a 16-track recorder) would probably involve a serious amount of signal degradation due to all the bounce-downs you'd have to do.

Sounds like 118 nilssons tho

I'm with you on hating Queen despite their craftsmanship.

Yeah, there are def. some similarities on this record with Smile (which, mind, was mostly unreleased in 1969). Nilsson def. also had an obsessive quality to getting vocal takes right (which apparently annoyed Newman -- he prob. meant "118 takes"). And there is a Glenn Gould-ish aspect to how tracks on both records are spliced together to create the feeling of a perfect, seamless performance (and of course, Smile/VDP-->Song Cycle/"Vine Street"-->Nilsson Sings Newman/"Vine Street").

But there are some pretty big differences, as well, not least of which is that Smile is a big, maximalist record performed by a studio orchestra and sung by an ensemble and Nilsson Sings Newman is a record where the dude himself is an orchestra. While there are vocal overdubs on Smile, most of the "wow" factor on that album is the arrangements. Also, Nilsson Sings Newman is in stereo, which Nilsson's vocal arrangements use to great effect.

Beyond that tho, is Nilsson's voice, which was more far more versatile than anyone's in the Beach Boys. Don't get me wrong, I love the purity of Brian's voice and Carl's vocals on Wild Honey but no one in the Beach Boys was ever going to pull off something like "Without You" or "Spaceman" (or even "Sail Away" from years later). Even by 1969, the strength of Nilsson's voice lets him explore some pretty sophisticated, witty arrangements, and create different shades to the music (i.e., "I'll Be Home"'s gospel choir -- or "Vine Street," which feels Beach Boys-esque in places but without any trace of the Four Freshman) In general, there is a more seamless feel to his arrangements.

All that said, I don't hear Nilsson Sings Newman as some masterpiece in the way Smile is -- it's a great record but a small one. And what I find most fascinating about it is how he's using someone else's songs as a springboard for his own vocal experiments. And I think a lot of that experimentation is still unique.

yeah that all makes sense. Nilsson def had a better, more versatile voice than any of the Boys

One of my best recent vinyl scores was a nice copy of Son of... w/the poster for only $3.

love that record so much.

Nilsson as a vocal genuis is pretty evident right from the start of his career (see his version of "You Can't Do That"). also good to note there is a difference between singing in a group (a la Beach Boys) vs singing alone. for one rehearsal is a lot more difficult to do!

his cover of many rivers to cross gets a lot of play around here

for one rehearsal is a lot more difficult to do!

I dunno, is it? Maybe this is a funny question that only musicians care about but in some ways one person with a recording device is actually easier - you only have to get it right once, then every time you hear it back it's always the same and you build the next part on top of that, then overdub another one, etc. It's sequential and iterative. Whereas with a group everyone has to learn/write/know their individual parts (have them written out in advance, or have someone like Brian Wilson sing them to you etc.) and each person has to hit it right every time or it sounds bad. So there you have to get everyone in their assigned spot and then just practice it and refine it til it's as good as it can get. They're different approaches, but I'm not sure one is inherently easier (or better) than the other.

and obviously the latter approach is tailored to performing live, the former isn't and is strictly a studio creation

NTI expressed what i was trying to say about Smile, but with much more detail and clarity. They are recordings built around elaborate orchestrations and edits rather than obsessive overdubs.

there are a ton of vocal overdubs!
but sure whatever

when rehearsing in a group you can sit around with 3-4 other guys who all know their parts and rehearse that stuff simultaneously, continuously, tape rolling or not. you can rehearse in the back of the car on the way to the studio.

as a solo performer, i guess you can rehearse with a tape of yourself and build it track by track. you don't see how this is more painstaking than working out harmonies all-at-once with a bunch of singers who have been singing together since they were teenagers? no room for on the spot adjustments of "oh, how about you go low here and i'll go high".

I've done both and they're both a pain in the ass (ok granted I don't have the blood harmony thing at my disposal, that's a pretty big differentiator)

but like I said, the solo recording only has to get each part right once. The group has to rehearse for hundreds of hours.

the solo performer has to rehearse and arrange for hundreds of hours as well. think about how much time Brian Wilson spent arranging that material. we are talking a lot of long days with no breaks. it's not like the singer 1 can go take a break and drink some honey tea while singer 2 does some overdubs. if you are a solo performer you kind of have to be on all the time. this is hard on your throat (keep in mind Nilsson did blow out his voice pushing it too hard).

imo Harry was exceptional because doing this was (seemingly) easy for him. part long hours of hard work part the natural talents of having an incredible singing voice. he can be very smooth, controlled, and on-key, but also really rock n roll, really drunk, loose, silly. his range is vast yet in a real pleasing, pop way. he has powerful command of his own voice. he's a great songwriter as well which always helps.

fwiw he doesn't have to be the sole pioneer of a style or anything, he is just fantastic, his music speaks for itself. it takes a big talent to be able to do this with your voice. i see him as in line with people like Buddy Holly or Brian Eno, the avant pop studio experimenalist. he excels at using overdubs to create a layered voice-as-instrument effect. in the spirit of something like this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZcuojSU_hOY

I've been non stop listening to Knillssonn for the last week. Arguably one of his best albums.

yeah that all makes sense. Nilsson def had a better, more versatile voice than any of the Boys

Well, I don't know, Brian and Carl are pretty good singers! I get a strong Bobby Darin vibe off (in particular, but not exclusively) Nilsson's first album.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/style/pop-genius-harry-nilsson-left-an-unreleased-record-behind-now-you-can-finally-hear-the-completed-version/2019/09/24/0ae20126-dec7-11e9-b199-f638bf2c340f_story.html

wow, almost didnt recognize his voice on that sample track

UCLA sounds completely in keeping with latter day Nilsson. Title track, agree, sounds like nothing else he did. I would love to hear the demos as well.

https://i.imgur.com/Boy1C5O.png

dude was ahead of his time...

https://open.spotify.com/track/6fvIzrJ6boUDFF19fH4S2s?si=a48JN0ddSVeLd89E0LCCDQ

There are some days where I think that Pussy Cats may be his best album.

It's been reported that Zak Nilsson (Harry's son) has passed away after a long struggle with colon cancer.

I didn't know this, but when Paul McCartney heard he was starting chemo, he sent him this letter.

Confirmed on the Nilsson FB page.e

He appears w/Mom & Dad in the upper corner of the Son of... gatefold.

https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/2176/9085/products/R-682504-1350386714-1971_jpeg_1024x1024.jpg?v=1598380339

Just saw this. RIP.

Recently picked up ... That's the Way it Is as I continue very slowly filling in his post-Pussy Cats records. It's good! STE at Allmusic always gave me the sense this was the nadir of his recorded output, but it's feeling very consistent with Knnillssonn and Sandman, just wayyy more reliant on covers and therefore less compositionally or melodically surprising. If you like 50% or more of those records, you'd probably like 50% or more of this one.

That run of three albums: "Duit on Mon Dei", "Sandman" and "...That's the Way It Is", is pretty dire compared to the rest of his discography, although there's definitely good (even great) stuff on all those albums. "Knnillsson" is different beast entirely.

i hardly ever put them on individually, but there are enough good tracks across all of them to put together a pretty good album-length playlist imo

Yes, you could get one very good album out of the three, shorn of dross like "How to Write a Song" et al.

https://i.imgur.com/utaGNbW.jpg

This came on and I was like “how did I not know that Lennon covered this?”

Interesting to compare Nilsson's "Vine Street" to Van Dyke Parks' version starting off "Song Cycle"...

Or Harpers Bizarre's version.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sEkbPrsoX_c

... and Lulu's version!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=epxh3CetPo8

that Harpers Bizarre version is nice

This came on and I was like “how did I not know that Lennon covered this?”

Because he didn't? Lennon used the same string arrangement for "#9 Dream."

Nilsson's version is a cover tho ... of a Jimmy Cliff song.

Lennon freely admitted he copped it too.

Even in the depths of my Nilsson obsession - admittedly a long time ago now - I had no idea he had recorded an entire (unreleased) album of Yoko Ono songs. It was recorded in the mid 80s and there's been talk for a while of releasing it - Sean Lennon is involved in the release somewhere - no sign of it yet.

Anyway Harry's voice is pretty grizzled, though a lot less than Dennis Wilson's on Pacific Ocean Blue for instance, but he can still sell a song. I've not heard all of it but I really like what I've heard and it's fascinating to hear him singing to an all electronic backing.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MLmWj_SZAm0

something very surreal about that. idk if it's him sounding like Huey Lewis or the massive amounts of reverb on everything, it just sounds wrong for Nilsson. good tune though!

Pulled out Son of Schmilsson tonight, don't usually go for that one 'cause in my head it's long on the "slightly dark wackiness" angle - but I always forget, first of all, about "Spaceman" which is easily one of my top favorite Nilsson songs and probably one of my favorite songs of the Seventies period....and also about "The Lottery Song" which is just a gorgeous, sweet little treat. Wow. Totally totally slid past my ears the first x times I listened to this record.

― Doctor Casino, Sunday, November 4, 2012 9:18 PM bookmarkflaglink

lol i went through this entire experience AGAIN today, came here to post about how "The Lottery Song" has come out of nowhere to possibly being a personal top 15 Nilsson song. why won't it stick with me?!? maybe it's because the album's ratio of great to willfully goofy is just a little bit off... he really made such an abrupt, willful swerve away from indelible pop-rock greatness, and laid down essentially the template for every record he'd ever do afterwards. i like most of those albums to varying degrees, but it's hard not to wish he had ONE more Nilsson Schmilsson to his name, when things like "Spaceman" and "Lottery Song" are right there making clear he 100% still had it in him...

I’m with you on Lottery Song but Spaceman had always left me cold. I have a high Nilsson tolerance but I almost always skip Spaceman.

Oh man, that one floored me the moment I first heard it on the 1978 Greatest Hits album, and it still works its magic. I find it really relatable, and the ascension from the understated opening "bang bang, shoot 'em up, destiny" to Nilsson in his bombastic wailing mode gives it more of a sense of progression and variety than might actually be there in the lyrics and composition.

I love Spaceman as well, he's so clearly at the peak of his powers on that album but just decides to dog it for whatever reason. hard to think of too many non-Zappa albums like that.

Best albums list imo:
1. Harry
2. Nilsson Sings Newman
3. The Point

That’s probably about right. All of the early proper albums are solid. I like most of that more than The Point because I relate to the lyrics more. But The Point, like Nilsson Sings Newman, really does demonstrate his strengths very well. Pre-Pussycats, he could make other people’s material blend seamlessly with his own work. Post Pussy, they were just competent covers.

I like Nilsson a lot. In terms of personal favorites, my three would be Nilsson Sings Newman, Nilsson Schmilsson and Pussycats, but it says a lot that I enjoy all the music that could be tied to those albums as well, whether it's demos, outtakes, prior or later Randy Newman covers or Son of Schmilsson itself. He just has a rich and eclectic discography that's rewarding to sift through even if it's not entirely consistent. I think the only stuff I don't like all that much would be at the tail end when his recording career was winding down. The standards album is okay - I happen to love at least some of those songs, and I treasure the albums Gordon Jenkins did for Frank Sinatra, but Nilsson's album doesn't feel all that special aside from being a detour. (To his credit, he did it while his voice was still in protean shape, so I can't say I regret his decision to make it - if he was going to make a standards album, that was the time to do it.)

I can’t stand the production on Pussycats. I don’t know what it is that Lennon does but a lot of his productions have this smeary shit sound. I more or less accept it with Lennon’s own music because that’s just how he wanted it to sound. Hiding his voice, early rock pastiche, etc. It’s wretched applied to Nilsson who always benefited from clarity and attention to detail. Pussycats has some good stuff on it but the sound of it bums me out, not just the blown-out vocals.

It makes sense to me taking the album as a snapshot of a harrowing lost weekend. Like whenever I was around severely inebriated people who seemed to be having a riotous time, I pretty much figured what they were experiencing in real-time was pretty much a smeared, off-kilter, unfocused and hard-to-grasp perspective of everything going on around them.