The Cokes Are in the Icebox: the Sam Cooke Poll

Cupid or Chain Gang. Or another, it's like asking to distinguish between gold ingots.

Where's (I Love You) For Sentimental Reasons ?

Don’t care about every single one of these because Hugo and Luigi etc but hard to chose amongst the rest. “Touch the Hem of His Garment,” “Chain Gang” or “You Send Me” maybe.

Just wanna make sure all the Sam Cooke fans have heard Live at the Harlem Square Club, 1963, because it rules so damn hard. It was the first Cooke CD I had and when I got around to listening to the album versions of those songs they sounded so anemic. I can appreciate them now, but hearing him really cut loose is something else.

(xpost) Just cut-and-paste the track listing for The Man and His Music--surprised it's not on there, yeah, though not one of my favourites. For me, it comes down to one of these: "Bring It on Home to Me," "Having a Party," "Sad Mood," "Chain Gang," or "Twistin' the Night Away." "A Change Is Gonna Come" used beautifully in Malcolm X, ditto "Chain Gang" in Atlanta.

This adjective usually makes me wince, but "Chain Gang" is haunting.

Will likely vote for "A Change Is Gonna Come."

Love all his Soul Stirrers recordings, especially this, which has some beautifully batshit harmonies at 0:13:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=quy8JYeHwts

Does anyone think that any of these songs were done as well (or better) by other singers - Otis or Aretha, if not Rod or the Stones?

They're forever trying to turn him into Nat King Cole or Johnny Mathis (both of whom I like, but just a different thing).

Sam wanted that. Not entirely unlike Marvin Gaye towards the beginning of his career, Sam strove for that kind of mainstream visibility and success (see also: Sam Cooke At The Copa). Hell, Cooke left Specialty Records because Art Rupe got pissed at him for singing a Gershwin song.

Interesting. He does seem happy singing all that material, and I can see where he thought it was the most viable path to commercial success. Just approaching it as a listener, how brilliant his signature songs are as opposed to all the other stuff. (I guess Aretha Franklin went through something similar at Columbia early on?)

i said "bring it on home to me" for the live performance at the harlem square club

on another day could totally vote "touch the hem of his garment"

(I guess Aretha Franklin went through something similar at Columbia early on?)

From Andrew Hickey's overwhelmingly indispensable podcast A History Of Rock Music In 500 Songs:

https://500songs.com/podcast/episode-149-respect-by-aretha-franklin/

This is not to say that Aretha herself saw this as a compromise — she later said “I have never compromised my material. Even then, I knew a good song from a bad one. And if Hammond, one of the legends of the business, didn’t know how to produce a record, who does? No, the fault was with promotion.”
And this is something important to bear in mind as we talk about her Columbia records. Many, *many* people have presented those records as Aretha being told what to do by producers who didn’t understand her art and were making her record songs that didn’t fit her style. That’s not what’s happening with the Columbia records. Everyone actually involved said that Aretha was very involved in the choices made — and there are some genuinely great tracks on those albums.

Regarding Cooke, there is some truth to how the production on some of his records didn't always work:

https://500songs.com/podcast/episode-122-a-change-is-gonna-come-by-sam-cooke/

For much of the late 1950s, Sam Cooke seemed to be trying to fit into two worlds simultaneously. He was insistent that he wanted to move into the type of showbusiness that was represented by the Rat Pack — he cut an album of Billie Holiday songs, and he got rid of Bumps Blackwell as his manager, replacing him with a white man who had previously been Sammy Davis Jr.’s publicist. But on the other hand, he was hanging out with the Central Avenue music scene in LA, with Johnny “Guitar” Watson, Eugene Church, Jesse Belvin, and Alex and Gaynel Hodge.

...

But while he was working on rock and roll and gospel records, he was also learning to tap-dance for his performances at the exclusive white nightclubs he wanted to play — though when he played Black venues he didn’t include those bits in the act. He did, though, perform seated on a stool in imitation of Perry Como, having decided that if he couldn’t match the energetic performances of people like Jackie Wilson (who had been his support act at a run of shows where Wilson had gone down better than Cooke) he would go in a more casual direction.

...

Cooke’s collaboration with Hugo and Luigi would soon turn into one that bore a strong resemblance to their collaboration with the Isley Brothers — they would release great singles, but albums that fundamentally misunderstood Cooke’s artistry; though some of that misunderstanding may have come from Cooke himself, who never seemed to be sure which direction to go in. Many of the album tracks they released have Cooke sounding unsure of himself, and hesitant, but that’s not something that you can say about the first real success that Cooke came out with on RCA, a song he wrote after driving past a group of prisoners working on a chain gang. He’d originally intended that song to be performed by his brother Charles, but he’d half-heartedly played it for Hugo and Luigi when they’d not seen much potential in any of his other recent originals, and they’d decided that that was the hit

happy to see the love for "Touch the Hem of His Garment" here - that's always been a favorite of mine that I didn't know was well known. It pulls on the pure sweet perfection of his voice as well as any song, though it is remarkable how good he sounds on all his hits.

Voted "Bring it on Home to Me"

That one phrase--"albums that fundamentally misunderstood Cooke's artistry"--is really the beginning and end of what I'm getting at.

Was tempted by 'Another Saturday Night' but I'm going to make like Horseshoe and go with the 'Bring it On Home' because of the Harlem Square Club version. Absolutely incendiary.

Just wanna make sure all the Sam Cooke fans have heard Live at the Harlem Square Club, 1963, because it rules so damn hard. It was the first Cooke CD I had and when I got around to listening to the album versions of those songs they sounded so anemic. I can appreciate them now, but hearing him really cut loose is something else.

― Cow_Art, Tuesday, April 18, 2023 9:47 AM (two hours ago) bookmarkflaglink

Same

Read the 'Death' section of Cooke's wikipedia article a while back and just had no idea how wild that story was

Does anyone think that any of these songs were done as well (or better) by other singers - Otis or Aretha, if not Rod or the Stones?

No, but I do love Mavis Staples version of You Send Me

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k7_Z_Q39c8c

this is impossibly arbitrary, if it was there i'd probly vote for "Nobody Knows the Trouble I've Seen"

given what is there maybe "Chain Gang" but see my first 4 words

Does anyone think that any of these songs were done as well (or better) by other singers - Otis or Aretha, if not Rod or the Stones?

Not exactly, but I imprinted very young on the Stones version of "Good Times," so I think I'm stuck liking that one better than the original.

this has made me think long and hard about my favourite singers as singers

I was surprised that Rolling Stone originally gave The Man and His Music a lukewarm review, complaining it wasn't "so revealing" and was merely a compilation of his best-known material with only a few surprises. (Robert Palmer of the NY Times gave a far more positive write-up.)

When I first started exploring Sam Cooke, this CD was THE one everyone recommended, and it was tough to find because it was OOP. I actually emailed Rhino (or whoever was then "Dr. Rhino") and asked if they would ever do a Sam Cooke compilation, and they said it was impossible because ABKCO owned too many songs they'd want to license and explained they were notoriously tight-fisted. I eventually found a big UK vendor who had some copies of The Man and His Music still in-stock, one of the first times I bought anything as an import. FWIW, don't bother with it now - all the music is available elsewhere in far better sound quality. (I think it was later confirmed that they used some crappy sounding production dubs for The Man and His Music.)

Sam & Dave released a great live version of "Soothe Me" as a single. I'd give that one the edge over Cooke's.

I love Otis Redding's "Cupid," originally an outtake - that's every bit as good as Cooke's if not moreso.

Regardless, I love this compilation though - even the weaker songs are rescued by Sam's singing. I only wish they had doubled it - it could've easily been a double CD without a hit in quality. Portrait of a Legend is a really good alternative covering his entire career, but Keep Movin' On is also a good compilation focused on his later, ABKCO-owned material. Sam Cooke's SAR Records Story 1959-1965 is a really good compilation focused on his own label - various artists, but Cooke sings on a bunch of stuff too. The complete set of Cooke's records with the Soul Stirrers is arguably his best collection ever, even though it covers only one phase of his career. And both Night Beat and Harlem Square are essential LP's.

Re: Harlem Square, Palmer had a good write-up about it where he interviews Gregg Geller:

''I'd heard rumors for years that these tapes existed,'' says Gregg Geller, the RCA executive who is largely responsible for the album's release. ''They'd clearly been recorded with the idea of putting together a live album. But Cooke kept having hit after hit, and apparently the release of the Harlem Square material was put off in favor of studio albums spotlighting the hits. A year and a half after it was recorded, they taped 'Sam Cooke at the Copa' and decided to put that out instead. Then Cooke was murdered, in December 1964, and the Harlem Square tapes stayed in the can. Over the years, all the people at RCA who knew the tapes existed left the company. The material was easy to find when I went to work at RCA and started snooping around.''

Palmer also adds his own memory:

I don't think I'll ever forget seeing him perform in Little Rock, Ark., a few months before the shooting. He put on an eloquent, teasing performance, singing like an angel and driving the women who were crowded around the stage into a frenzy. Near the end of the show, he peeled off one of his elegant little gloves (Michael Jackson and Prince did not start this glove business in pop music) and tossed it into the audience. It landed at the ringside table where I was sitting. A phalanx of ululating women came charging forward to claim the glove and pounced, sending table, chairs and listeners, including me, crashing to the floor under a pile of bodies. That was the sort of magnetism Sam Cooke exuded. We are fortunate indeed to have a new album that features him at his charismatic, soulful best.

https://www.nytimes.com/1985/05/15/news/pop-life.html

this is impossibly arbitrary, if it was there i'd probly vote for "Nobody Knows the Trouble I've Seen"

also my fav, and very very attached to night beat

hell yes

Strange line in that Rolling Stone review: "It’s essentially a 'best of' package with some added attractions," written with a seeming air of disappointment. That's exactly what it is!

"you send me" is probably the one i have the most sentimental attachment to, even if i generally prefer his more soul-oriented stuff to the early ballads. strongly considering "ain't that good news" which is one of the best rockabilly songs ever

that legendary live version of "bring it on home" beckons as well

And both Night Beat and Harlem Square are essential LP's.

^ this, and I feel like Night Beat doesn't get enough love / isn't talked about much. It's pretty much the only all killer/no filler Cooke studio record, no?

absolutely love night beat, his wee small hours

Night Beat is not on this box set I've been playing. You get Sam Cooke, Encore, Tribute to the Lady, Hit Kit, I Thank God, Cooke's Tour, Hits of the '50s, and Swing Low, plus four or five singles. Not sure if the albums are 100% complete or not.

it's not the best song here but "Twistin' the Night Away" is way better than any twist song should be

I knew Billy Preston was a child prodigy, but ffs he was SIXTEEN when he played on Night Beat. I always liked his answers to “dogs begin to bark” and “hounds begin to howl” on “Little Red Rooster.”

"little red rooster" is def a conspicuous absence from this poll

The poll is based on the tracklisting of the 1986 compilation The Man And His Music. Now, an argument could definitely be made that something from Night Beat should’ve been on that CD.

right

I was at work and kind of rushing, assumed the compilation was reliably complete. Sam Cooke is someone who deserves one of those proper polls (one of the original 10 HOF inductees, not that I want to veer off into the subject of the HOF).

this is too hard -- his best performances here are just the gold standard for pop vocals. "Wonderful world" is so good, "Cupid" is incredible, "Change" obviously, "Chain Gang"...but he even makes "Twistin' the Night Away" special

you send me is my sentimental fave if i had to do the impossible and choose something from this group

i have sooooo many favorites

Bring It On Home got my vote but it could be so many others, incredible voice & range

Portrait of a Legend is a really good alternative covering his entire career

That's the compilation I heard, it removes six songs from this CD and adds eight.

In terms of covers, I think the Rolling Stones version of "Little Red Rooster" and Aretha's "Change Is Gonna Come" are both competitive. The Otis Redding version of the latter isn't quite as good, but it's funny when he corrects himself on the bridge ("I went to see my little mother...my dear mother!").

I'm voting for "I'll Come Running Back to You", because the chord changes in the chorus make me feel like I'm blushing.

You know what’s not on this list that he absolutely kills: “Frankie & Johnny”

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WBEu_AlNx_Q

Years ago, a friend of mine made me a gospel mixtape. "Touch the Hem of His Garment" was on it. That song can still bring me to tears.

I just love all five songs I mentioned earlier, but will probably vote for "Having a Party." If there were a genre called Friendly Songs--I mean something deep and genuine, not sugary--I'd probably put "Having a Party" at the top.

lol I owe Rod Stewart my discovery of at least two Cooke songs and two different versions of one song.

<3

Forgot about Stewart - he probably learned more from Cooke than anyone else. He was recording Cooke covers as early as 1965!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h6FnQmG7wpM

They don't surpass Cooke's originals, but 'Twistin' The Night Away' was a great way to close Never a Dull Moment, and one of the few late-career Stewart tracks I actually enjoy is his cover of 'Soothe Me.'

Another dainty with a hint of darkness and introspection on "Portrait" is "You Were Made For Me".

wow never made the Cooke > Stewart connection but that's totally where he got his groove!

"Little Red Rooster" not a Cooke original, right? Is the Rolling Stones version modelled more on his than, say, Howlin Wolf's?

cooke's was the highest-charting version (in the u.s., at least)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gWBS0GX1s9o

Was made aware of this via the 500 Songs podcast. They should’ve made an album together. They should’ve made ten albums together.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_YkL6-vWURE

That's great--didn't even know Sam Cooke played guitar. (Worlds colliding: Bobby Sherman's name rolls by in the credits!)

Automatic thread bump. This poll is closing tomorrow.

Arrgh, not enough time left in this poll for me to explore Mr. Cooke’s discography, with which I am inexcusably unfamiliar, but holy FUCK is “Twistin’ the Night Away” a great song. Early-60s R&B is my favorite R&B.

Automatic thread bump. This poll's results are now in.

What a turnout.

Geez, I was the only "Having a Party" vote. (Great #1...Of the ones up top, I do, personally, think "Cupid"'s kind of sappy, redeemed only somewhat by Cooke's voice.)

Surprised "Soothe Me" didn't place...

"Shake" too - titanic single.

Forgot to mention one thing - RCA-Victor stereo mixes from that era were notoriously poor-sounding, and that's especially true with Sam Cooke's recordings. Typically:

The mono 45's were cut from masters created from live sessions that were mixed directly to tape - straight to a mono machine (i.e. no remixing).

When they created masters for the mono LP's, they dubbed them from the mono 45 masters with additional EQ - i.e. they sound inferior to the mono 45's.

Even worse, for the stereo mixes, they had a second machine running, capturing the same live session on a three-track tape. These were then mixed down with some horrible limiting on the voice that distorted and flattened it out. On top of that, they usually added too much reverb (for whatever reason a lot of stereo mixes in general from that era were mixed with a ton of echo, usually a lot more than the mono mix - Sinatra's Capitol records and Ella Fitzgerald's Verve songbook albums are good examples of this).

Sam Cooke's original 45 mono masters (post-Soul Stirrers) have rarely been used for any digital reissue, in most cases never. Frustrating and a damn shame.

Another Saturday Night is such a happy sad song and Good Times Roll is such a sad happy song....

"Having a Party" = happy happy
"Sad Mood" = sad sad

Another Saturday Night is such a happy sad song and Good Times Roll is such a sad happy song....

That's why those were the two I was trying to choose between. Went with "Good Times" because it's one of those songs that feels bigger on the inside, like what I get from it is somehow much more than what's in the lyrics.

I have a hard time separating my feelings about it from the Stones version, which I heard first, and which feels like it's telling a slightly different story from the original. They both have that sort of suspended feeling, like you're in a little island of peace between a difficult past and an uncertain future, but the vibe I get from the Stones version is that it's about a relationship, that these two people have known each other for a long time and have been going through a rough patch. I don't know exactly where I get that from, but that's how I feel about this song in general - like there's a whole story there just out of sight.

everybody otm

In Cooke's "Good Times," the not-so-hidden story is the singer's anticipated return, soul soothed or not, to the world suggested by "Chain Gang."