Art Blakey & the Jazz Messengers - 45 albums POLL

all of them

I'm not as familiar with the very early records (1957 was a wild year!) or the '70s stuff on, but I'm looking forward to listening. I put on Keystone 3 this morning, a live record with the Marsalis bros, and it's pretty great.

gotta go with the Monk album although the the band with Shorter is my favorite period

Mosaic (1961)
Buhaina's Delight (1961)
Caravan (1962)
Free for All (1964)
Kyoto (1964)
Indestructible (1964)

instinctively, one of these

Listening to Kyoto now, since it's A Shorter/Morgan joint that I'm not familiar with.

Moanin' (1958)
The Big Beat (1960)
A Night in Tunisia (1960)
Indestructible (1964)

I love all the Blue notes but it would have to be one of these I think.

I think you can guess which one I'm voting for, Jordan.

impossible poll but happy to (re)discover the Monk album, can't believe I overlooked it for so long

related: what's the best cheapest CD box set that compiles some of these records?

Free for All seems to burn just that bit harder.

i find the monk collaboration underwhelming

recently been into AB's percussion heavy stuff like DRUM SUITE, ORGY IN RHYTHM, HOLIDAY FOR SKINS, and THE AFRICAN BEAT. but that doesn't count here.

early '70s stuff with woody shaw and cedar walton is pretty great imo. voted BUHAINA for that reason and for the ATCQ sample.

Roots & Herbs is another great Morgan/Shorter one, looking forward to hearing that again.

Random Shorter story: I've been listening to Pablo Held's podcast where he's talked to various musicians about playing (or subbing) in Wayne Shorter's final quartet, where one of the guiding principles was not playing anything idiomatic or premeditated/comfortable/lick-based. At a soundcheck someone (maybe Danilo Perez) played something that quoted or evoked Wayne's '60s material, and he shouted "Blue Note records!" and then literally ran away off stage, lol.

It's either gonna be A Night In Tunisia or Free For All for me. Either one will cause flames to shoot from your speakers.

Some real Coltrane quartet influence on 'Nihon Bash' (off Kyoto), which is interesting.

early '70s stuff with woody shaw and cedar walton is pretty great imo. voted BUHAINA for that reason and for the ATCQ sample.

FYI I found this on spotify under the name "Vol. 2: Mission Eternal"

Wow, love that this chronology exists, especially the quotes:

https://jazzmf.com/art-blakey-chronology-and-the-jazz-messengers/

(found it while I was looking to see what was going on between 1965 - 1972...apparently still doing a lot of gigs, and maybe he didn't have a record contract post-Blue Note?)

“Jesus Christ, what a night! I saw guys I hadn’t seen for years! They’d got fat and changed. Donald Byrd was twice the size of me! I looked at him and said, that’s you? Freddie Hubbard was up there bustin’ outta his suit. Somebody said we shoulda been called Art Blakey and The Jazz Bellybands.”

– Art Blakey, quoted by Brian Case in Wire, December 1984, p.13.

“We [Blanchard and Harrison] auditioned in the band at Fat Tuesday’s. We’d listen to tapes and learn the melodies and the changes and then come back and sit in. One night we played a whole set while Wynton and Branford sat in the back. And then Art said, ‘You’re a Jazz Messenger now.’ And what was wild was that he said, ‘I don’t want you to give a shit about Freddie Hubbard, Woody Shaw, Miles Davis, Dizzy Gillespie, none of them. I just want you to be in this band and work hard at being the best you can be.’ He was naming all my heroes! He wanted me to understand that I couldn’t be them. There was no sense for me to try. I just had to be myself.”

– Terence Blanchard, quoted by Michael Bourne in Down Beat, May 1994, p.18.

“I didn’t go to Africa to study drums – somebody wrote that – I went to Africa because there wasn’t anything else for me to do. I couldn’t get any gigs, and I had to work my way over on a boat. I went over there to study religion and philosophy. I didn’t bother with the drums, I wasn’t after that. I went over there to see what I could do about religion. When I was growing up I had no choice, I was just thrown into a church and told this is what I was going to be. I didn’t want to be their Christian. I didn’t like it. You could study politics in this country, but I didn’t have access to the religions of the world. That’s why I went to Africa. When I got back people got the idea I went there to learn about music.”

Dipping into some of the later albums, it's cool to hear some of these players (Terence Blanchard, Kevin Eubanks, Kenny Garrett, etc) ripping on some hard bop in their earlier incarnations.

sorry if this is annoying

“All of us who came through Art’s band, we would do anything for him. Freddie Hubbard and I were talking about that the other day. When I left that band, I was in trouble. I could not play with another drummer. I was irritated, I was annoyed, I would get angry, because I wasn’t hearing what I was used to hearing. When I joined his band, I was playing soft, and mellow, and smooth, and syrupy. By the time I left I was playing another way, because I had to. He would do one of those famous four-bar drum rolls going into the next chorus, and I would completely disappear. He would holler over at me, ‘Get up out of that hole!’ He taught us a lot.”

– Benny Golson, quoted by Gene Lees in Waiting For Dizzy.

no these are great!

I've gotten distracted by Blakey's non-Messenger Blue Note albums. Drum Suite, Orgy in Rhythm, and Holiday in Skins are truly crazy, a few minutes of flutes and chants followed by these near-170 bpm drum blowouts. And the extreme reverb/slapback/room sound, it's cool hearing what these familiar rooms (the Columbia 30th St studio, the Van Gelder studio) sound like when you hit drums very loudly in them.

'Drums Around the Corner' is fun too...feels very throw-together, but is swing-oriented rather than Afro-latin and has some great Lee Morgan and Bobby Timmons, and you get Blakey doing triple drums with Philly Joe Jones and Roy Haynes.

Another detour with the live album 'Buttercorn Lady', the only record with the Chuck Mangione and Keith Jarrett lineup. Got intrigued after the quotes below and it's also the first appearance on record of Keith Jarrett. I was hoping to hear a non-smooth Mangione blow some fire, but it's pretty subdued so far (the most chill Blakey album I've heard by far).

Jarrett is great though -- on 'Recuerdo' he starts his solo by playing the strings inside the piano...not sure if he's muting them and playing the keys, or maybe using sticks? I think maybe sticks because he starts strumming them like a harp, and keeps it going with one hand while the other hand starts soloing with a normal piano tone.

“I never did believe in separatism. Don’t forget that as far back as 1965 I had Chuck Mangione and Keith Jarrett in the band. The 1960’s were a difficult time for everybody to get along together, because the black consciousness thing was very strong, and instead of just playing the music, some cats were using the bandstand for a political rostrum. That hurt. It had nothing to do with our musical objectives. Most of those guys didn’t even vote. All we’re supposed to do, I feel, is try to make people happy.”

– Art Blakey, quoted by Leonard Feather in L.A. Times, October 30, 1977, p.78.
“And these musicians were black. And they couldn’t keep time. And they couldn’t play. They couldn’t play the blues. I had to get a white trumpet player to play the blues! At least Chuck Mangione come in here and play the blues. He tried to play the blues, do everything he possibly could. You know? And these kids standin’ around trying to put these guys down. Oh, they put Keith Jarrett down in my band, Chuck Mangione. When they heard the band, I said, come on, you want to sit in? They didn’t dare. Not one of them. They didn’t dare. I knew exactly what I was doing. When I needed a trumpet player, I called Dizzy. Dizzy said, ‘I got it. Chuck Mangione.’ Sent him right to me. And that was a blessing, ’cause I didn’t have any. Couldn’t find none nowhere. And this is what was happening. Oh, there probably were some down in the south or out west, but I didn’t hear anyone here in New York. Regardless of what they doing out there, if you ain’t in New York you in trouble. You know what I mean, you don’t want no musician coming out from Chicago coming in unless he’s an exception. But he’s got to be in New York. That’s what I tell all the musicians when I meet them. Get to New York. Get there. Go there and stay. Exchange ideas.”

– Art Blakey, Jazz Magazine, Winter 1979, p.48.
“It was really a misfit. The reason why things were so terribly unbalanced there was because we had Keith, who was a very accomplished musician and there were other musicians in the band who were growing. Sometimes a man has so much talent he would get bored waiting for the rest of the cats to catch up. And Keith could play other instruments too and he knew what the saxophone player was doing wrong, what the trumpet player was doing wrong. He was in the band because of me, because he liked me. But it’s like a kid in school, put him in the wrong class and he gets bored.”

– Art Blakey, Cadence, July 1981, p.9.
“At the time, the management of that band was a complete shambles, but there were other things, all through that period, like nearly crashing on a drive out to the West Coast. It was one of the most nervewracking trips anybody has ever taken; Chuck got out of the car in Oklahoma and took a plane the rest of the way. At any rate, I decided to leave and our last job was in Boston. I had met Charles Lloyd there earlier...Now, when I decided I was leaving Art’s group, I looked at the club’s schedule and Charles was coming in the following week, so off the top of my head I called him up. He had already asked Steve Kuhn but somehow he got out of that or Steve had to do something else.”

– Keith Jarrett, quoted by Bob Palmer in Down Beat, October 24, 1974 p.16.p

It's a very enjoyable album, now onto 'Oh-By the Way' from 1982, with Terence Blanchard and Donald Harrison, and that is just ripping so far.

I voted Indestructible because I love it, but I need to hear a bunch of these

'S Make It is the first album after Wayne Shorter & Cedar Walton left, but it still has Lee Morgan (and John Gilmore of Sun Ra fame). I'll take every Lee Morgan solo I can get but he's not burning as hard as he does on the previous LPs. It's a really nice record but overall very bright & sunny compared to the intensity of the Shorter run, and there's a corny boogaloo or two. The super fast shuffle on the opening track is pretty crazy, almost an early rock & roll vibe.

A Night in Tunisia (1961) or Moanin’ for me.

Now listening to Hard Bop from '57...Bill Hardman on trumpet, who I'm not familiar with but pops up in Messengers lineups in both the '50s and the '70s (and managed to miss the whole classic Blue Note period). Also only has one album as a leader to his name, but sounds really fantastic on this.

Fun fact that I haven't confirmed yet, Bill's nickname was "Internet."

Lol, was thinking the same thing.

I don't think I can actually vote in this poll, I've heard too many good Messengers albums now (which is the real point obv).

Art Blakey & the Jazz Messengers s/t -- the first studio album, with Donald Byrd + Jackie McLean + Horace Silver, and it's fantastic. Sounds great too, cool reverb on the drums.

The Big Beat -- hadn't heard this one for awhile, I'm starting to go through the Shorter/Morgan run again (there are some lesser known ones in there that I haven't heard at all). Lots of nice shuffles, more than any other record, maybe trying to follow up Moanin' as a hit? Lee Morgan sounds ridiculous on this.

i think you mean Hank Mobley on the first record

i probably would've voted for the Silver/Blakey Messengers record with "The Preacher" had it been an option

Oh yeah you're right, McLean comes in after that

His bass drum foot is insane, from the first record on (like in those signature fills where he's doing a call & response between both hands & the kick drum).

Of course the Morgan/Shorter run is just endless gems, now onto 'The Witch Doctor'. Done at the Van Gelder studio and it has that same slightly blown-out sound that you get on 'Free for All', I love it.

I need more Art Blakey albums. I have some of those 4 and 8 album cheapo sets plus Free For All, Moanin' and a few others

Jazz catalogs are the one instance where streaming does feel magical.

Wowww, "A Little Busy" off The Witch Doctor. It feels more like an Adderley Bros tune, but it's super funky & New Orleans-y, with yet another insane Lee Morgan solo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tstVkZ9Rj8g

his kit sounds sooo good in this one

Automatic thread bump. This poll is closing tomorrow.

i brought home a book today that i will share with the thread

ok here's the book

https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/71yovfRB9GL._AC_UF1000,1000_QL80_.jpg

it was given to me a year back or so, but i haven't had any chance to read it. planning to give it a look tonight after work

Oh, I'll have to check it out!

I'm done with my listening of all the Blakey albums on Spotify and I can't possibly choose one to vote for, I abstain. I'm onto some of the live albums but I'm almost Blakey-ed out, it's been an extremely worthwhile deep dive though fr.

you're not going to vote in your own poll? just pick something

Ok fine I did (Indestructible, because I wanted to pick something from the Shorter/Morgan run but not one of the more popular albums)

Automatic thread bump. This poll's results are now in.

Great winner but disappointing turn out

I hope more people take the journey, kinda wish I had put in a contrarian vote for 'Oh-By the Way' or something.

The '50s/'60s live albums are impeccable too, highly recommend Ugetsu / Three Blind Mice / Meet You At the Jazz Corner of the World / etc.

I'm hoping I've passively absorbed even a fraction of that rock solid cymbal beat from all this Blakey immersion.

I just got a very nice original stereo A Night in Tunisia. Haven't done a direct comparison, but I think the remastered early 00s RVG edition I know must be the mono, because this version, while still incredible, maybe doesn't hit with the force I am used to.

FYI those RVG editions of the stereo mixes typically narrowed the channels because Van Gelder didn't like how wide those mixes were (even though he usually made them).

I'm actually not a fan of the RVG editions - squashed with even more compression, narrowed channels, top end boost, etc. Better reissues have since come out from Analogue Productions or overseas in Japan, but I even prefer the old CD's done my Ron McMaster, at least they breathe a lot more.

Shoutout to "Art Blakey and the Jazz Messengers" (1961). One of the standout albums of this cheap box set.

I bought a nice OG of Drum Suite because of this thread, thanks Jordan!

Cool! I was just reminded that Benny Golson is still with us, age 94 (!).

Btw I ended my Art Blakey marathon by circling back around to Moanin', and on the alternate take of the title track it's interesting what they repeated in the solo sections. The 'Big Fat Mama' quote at the beginning and end of Lee Morgan's solo (picked up by Benny Golson at the beginning of his solo), and some of the blues shout licks in the piano solo (but not the crazy slides). I wonder which take was first, and if those parts were pre-meditated or if they were hot moments in the first take that they recreated in the second.

Anyone knows what's up with the recording of "Ugetsu"? Last night I read the liner notes of some Art Blakey albums and I noticed that Orrin Keepnews kind of apologizes for the live recording of "Ugetsu" in his liner notes for "Caravan". Keepnews offers only a short and general text for "Ugetsu".

I don't know, sounds great to me!

I'm halfway through that Goldsher book mentioned above, it's a fun read. Very much a celebration of the music that makes you want to listen to the songs & solos mentioned, lots of good quotes from the musicians.

Of course it's mostly keeping it positive with very little shade thrown (just the slightest bits from Branford and Freddie Hubbard, which makes sense), or mention of drugs etc.

I was also reminded of a story I heard from Richard Davis (maybe 2nd hand?) about some tour where, a few weeks into it, the band got stranded in a European airport overnight, after all the restaurants had closed. Art Blakey pulled out some fried chicken wrapped in foil that he had brought from home and been carrying the whole tour for just such an occasion, what a pro.

I sadly didn't know enough to participate. I didn't get very far in the Wayne Shorter listening thread, but Jazz Messengers are more up my alley and I will use these results as recommendations.

Can't go wrong with anything through '56 - '65!

Just came across this random and unexpected Blakey anecdote from Simon Philips:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s4tNVBXroWs

I think these guys are gonna be my new obsession.

<3

Listening to Hank Mobley's 'Roll Call' this morning, it works as a great alt-Messengers album (Blakey, Mobley, Freddie Hubbard, Wynton Kelly, Paul Chambers). I didn't realize that Blakey recorded with Freddie Hubbard before Hubbard joined the band - this is from 1960, when Lee Morgan was still a Messenger, and it looks like Hubbard joined in '61.

Went back to 'Paris Jam Session' among other things, this is the one with Bud Powell on the first two tracks. But this one has one of my favorite Blakey solos. The whole time I'm thinking what a ridiculously deep groove this one has, even out of all the shuffles they did, the bass & drums are just swinging you into the ground here. Then coming out of the bass solo he just slams into the groove unaccompanied, and it's the best. It feels so good there would be no point to playing anything else (except for those bombs).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eqqyj7hie2Y

Some of the clearest & longest video I've found, heavy jam session vibe, ride cymbal technique is crazy

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NetadSNIqdA

(also notable for being near the very end of Thelonious Monk's playing career, I think even the final tour?)

Shorter's solo on "Sakeena's Vision" (from "The Big Beat") is one for the books. Not your typical Shorther solo.

Wowww, "A Little Busy" off The Witch Doctor. It feels more like an Adderley Bros tune, but it's super funky & New Orleans-y, with yet another insane Lee Morgan solo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tstVkZ9Rj8g

Great tune, makes me wanna get up and dance! Listened to "Roots & Herbs" today, Shorter especially is fantastic here.

all their covers go hard

I've been obsessed with the tune "Mosaic" lately, the structure is so cool. Trying to comfortably play it at speed, and then I found this live version that is, psychotically, even faster:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ybkR2p4FFDc

Also kind funny that on the live version, the hemiola on the bridge seems to be an arbitrary length, cued by Blakey.

I also checked out a few other versions that are available on Cedar Walton records with other groups, none of them are that great however.

Actually it was this version with Joe Farnsworth playing so relaxed and quietly at hyperspeed that got me going:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=09SVW38lFyk

Shout out to bassist Mickey Bass, real name Lee Odiss Bass III

https://www.discogs.com/it/artist/467999-Mickey-Bass

RIP Benny Golson.

“I said, ‘Art, you’re a great man. This pay is nothing for you. It makes me sad,’ And he looked at me with his sad beautiful cow eyes and said, ‘Can you help me ?’ And I can’t believe what came out of my mouth, this young upstart who hadn’t been in New York too long. I said, ‘Yes, if you’ll do exactly what I tell you.’ How dared I ? But he went for it. He said ‘What should I do ? And I said, ‘Get a new band.'”

Benny Golson