"Phrenology" by The Roots- Is It Any Good?

Back to The Roots: can someone explain their numbering system? What happened to #71- #86? Was there another LP or something before 'Phrenology' but since 'Things Fall Apart'?

jeff I think they just number every song they make. most (all?) of the missing numbers are on the intervening live album.

"I don't like it, so everyone who does must be stupid."

What were you saying about critical laxity?

(I will comment on The Roots album after I get a chance to hear it.)

lax:

Negligent, not strict, vague. As have been all the reviews of "Under Construction" apart from mine and Pitchfork's.

My other opinion: I thought I was going to love Things Fall Apart a lot more than I actually did; I resigned myself to liking the Roots as an idea more than as an actual band. But Phrenology is turning into a whole new bag for me, and right now it's on my Top Ten list for this year. But that only matters if you, like me, think that any record with a song calling out a bandmate for drug use that then goes into seven more minutes of experimental psychedelic blues is worth listening to. But I think it's their tightest record and their hungriest and most ambitious and hardest and most beautiful.

And yeah, Josh, BT is hard as hell here.

I'm guessing, however, that trife will NOT be down with it.

Josh - thanks. I didn't know (or forgot) about the live album.

as for your empty signifier blah blah blah, even if that's true, that alone would be interesting to me.

Has anyone else considered starting a separate thread about Missy (AGAIN) and letting this one be about Phrenology, an LP by the Roots?

Yes: The Roots Come Alive. I'm with Nickalicious and Matt C on this record, btw. All the songs are very different and rewarding.

To bring it back to the Roots, and speaking of monologues, liner notes and politics, the Roots have Amiri Baraka on the last track, and in the notes they describe him as the poet that New Jersey's government couldn't silence, or some such, and I'm like, oh yes, the guy who claimed that Jews blew up the World Trade Center, it's so great that he can't be silenced, we really need to hear those revolutionary truths!

I've said that "Pussycat" is Missy's "He Hit Me (It Felt Like a Kiss)" -- it's a feminist message encased in an earnest, convincing character study.

So what is there in the song to make you think it's a character?

And although I agree that Baraka has some serious-ass problems (and I'm actually kind of sort of related to him by marriage in a weird way), the Roots aren't necessarily endorsing any fucked-up anti-Semitism (which Baraka denies), but more the fact that he's NJ's poet laureate and that the governor is trying to initiate new legislation to be able to remove him from that post because of that WTC poem. Artistic expression, etc., blah blah.

But the track in question has nothing to do with that controversy.

And I've never heard Marcello Carlin HATE a record like this before. Holy vituperation, Batman!

marcello why should we demand that this record be pop (or, pop as marcello demands it to be)?

What use for "Under Construction" if it is not pop?

Anyway, I still agree with 16% of your opinion in this matter.

Um there's really no particular rationale for saying that and that old "oh she's rich, therefore she can't talk about community or where she came from or 'the people' because she is hypocrite because she is rich' argument is wack.

She requires less "spontaneous contributions" and more ice, otherwise she will not become a monolith of awe.

Kierkegaard says that in the act of worship, we are all invited "on stage": each worshipper is invited to assume an irreplaceable voice in the chorus of praise that constitutes worship. And the vicar, the worship leaders, the MUSICIANS? They are instruments of the monoliths of awe, but also conduits, there to help it all happen. They're the prompters to the actors; they're the cheerleaders to the team on the field. But the people in the pews: they're the important ones. It's their voice which counts.

Now, granted: you may not want to accept that invitation. You may prefer to sit in the back pew and observe, or even judge. But you, the consumer, should feel invited "on stage."

The "ritual contract" in worship is always an invitation to become engaged, to commit, to participate, to be a part of this action. Anything less than that may be entertaining, or even inspiring. But worship it isn't.

I think that's a ridiculous question. Missy Elliott set out to make her idea of an old-school hip-hop album. I'm sure that making a pop record was the last thing on her mind (outside of wanting to sell tons of copies, of course). Furthermore, your juxtaposition of listening to a Missy Elliott album and worshipping a god is, at best, deeply frightening.

(I admit, Dan, I haven't relistened to "Pussycat" to pay attention to the words as you said. JBR et al certainly make it sound interesting!).

The continuity of the epic moment in new constellations.

Whole dang thing is worth it for these lines alone (but there are plenty of others to love).

so whatever did happen to leonard parts I-V?

So the WTC attack was perpetuated by Roger Daltrey and Ric Flair?

Back on topic: How many hip-hop tracks have sampled "Apache" before "Thought at Work", and how many have done it better? (Answer: shitloads and not many, respectively.) It keeps fading into the background, stating not "OMG WE ARE SAMPLING INCREDIMABLE BONGO BAND" but "boom bip thump yeah you may have heard this before but check out this guitar riff and this weird goth psych android piano". I like the rendering of one of the most familiar breaks ever into just another cog in a tumultuous-as-hell track.

This is the funniest thing ever said on ILM. Official.

Between Phrenology's "Sacrifice" and that J5 record I wonder why, how and when Nelly Furtado started hangin' around with the boho-rap crowd. She certainly sounds better than the one reference point I have for her voice (i.e. the SNL skit where she sings the "Oompa Loompa" song from Willie Wonka).

Speaking of Track and Field (the producers, not the UK label)--am I the only person who heard the Travis Church album? Was it actually released, or did I just review a preview copy and then the damn thing got pulled, or what?

"She requires less "spontaneous contributions" and more ice, otherwise she will not become a monolith of awe."

Marcello have you heard Da Real World? That was what that record was for, and while I love it to bits I'm glad she's not merely repeating herself.

This is MC's biggest failing as a critic (not uniquely his, either, everyone does it sometimes) - when it comes to new records he often wants to be authoritative, to deliver a first and last word on them, to solve them like a puzzle. It means that he seems to mistrust - or resent, even - froth, and enthusiasm, and alternative readings. IMO The Church Of Me is so much better when it talks about back catalogue work, where there's less of an urge to be definitive and where there's existing consensus or ignorance to work from - or where Marcello's personal response to the music (as in today's entry) overcomes his occasional need to put it in its place.

Anyone else heard the Common album yet? Similarly experimental, and similarly patchy as a result. The Stereolab collaboration is fan-bloody-tastic tho'.

Also, it's somewhat funny to hear reviews say the Roots are experimenting w/ punk and dance when the !!! track is 24 seconds long and "Thirsty" is only a 2.5 minute bonus cut.

The middle section from tracks 5 thru 9 is the peak, I think. (That said, the Neptunes' contributions aren't that great: the main hook of the single is poor IMO, altho' I do like the "I know when your thinking/ you on my mind/ You're right, You're right, You're right" bit. That's really good.)

Yes, a dozen reviews in the new Uncut, which when last I checked was a dozen more than you had. And yes I am getting paid for them, and you are not.

And yes I am happy about that. One of the few but precious things in my life at the moment about which I have every right to be happy. Sorry to disappoint you by still being alive.

This weekend I have gone to hell and back. And, although Jess and I are not on speaking terms at present, I can only echo what he has said in so many words: I'm not going to let any haters and pathetic jealous losers like you bring me down. Not now. Not ever.

I actually bought the roots lp sort of because of idle curiosity - I didn't expect it to seem really good to me. it makes me wonder how much the critics praising it for its experimentalism etc really are struck by that experimentalism, or if they're just playing it up for musico-critico-political reasons. it really sounds more or less like the same old roots to me; the differences seem minor, and cordoned off into their own little spaces.

The "experimentalism" is a bit of a red herring. Yes, they do some things they haven't done before, but the burblings on "Water" aside, there's nothing particularly weird here.

I think it's good because they are a lot more aggressive than usual. Also because they use guitars. Something that always bothered me about the Roots was they would just have the organ going on top of the rhythm section, and it sounded really weak sometimes. (I always thought that was one illustration of why hip-hop is production, not live, music--most hip-hop doesn't have a lead instrument beyond the rhythm, but if you're using samples, you can get those atmospheric sounds just right, and they don't sound weak). Adding the guitar gives the music more beef.

I actually think it's a rock 'n' roll record, not a hip-hop record. It's the sound of a live band at work, more than any of their other records. I like to think my favorite track, "Seed 2.0," acknowledges this, with the line about "if I had a baby girl tonight, I'd name her rock 'n' roll." Cody Chestnutt really lays into that one; it sounds like they're just blasting it out in one take.

It has a nice flow. There are hard tracks and soft tracks and in-between tracks. Even "Break Me Off," which I at first thought was rather formless and wishy-washy and a sad choice for the single, has grown on me. The Amiri Baraka track is great--I like when the drums get all junglistic, and he sounds like a wizened old man dropping knowledge.

So, this may be the first Roots album I come back to after the first few weeks.

http://images.amazon.com/images/P/B00005BC94.01.LZZZZZZZ.jpg

I tell you one lesson I learned
If you want to be something in life
You ain't gonna get it unless
You give a little bit of sacrifice
Sometimes before you smile you got to cry
You need a heart that's filled with music
If you use it you can fly
If you want to be high

Lame lame lame lame LAME! Sad really, because the rest of it isn't bad at all.

I haven't heard it, but if it's anything like her other music, I'd imagine the Nelly Furtado track is ruined by....er...Nelly Furtado.

It's pretty good, I think... of course you can say there are too many tracks, would be better as a single disc blah blah blah. And I think it would be: the difference between "The Seed 2.0" on the Roots album and on Cody's album makes that clear. It has a lot more beef in the Roots version; if he'd picked the best stuff and done a similar production job on it, could have been a really great album. But on other hand, it definitely has a certain rambling charm (aside from the songs about his cock) and authenticity the way it is, like a really good demo tape. I am going to see Cody and Bobby Bland play on Saturday night; looking forward to it.

And the Nelly Furtado track is great! Nice tune, nice groove (the little bubbly synth followed by chimes), nice vocals. Who gives a fuck if the chorus ain't that deep--it's not wrong, either.

Black Thought is better than Common, too. Not as great as some people think he is, mind you, but he does have presence and his lyrics are pretty great. The thing is the Roots don't really foreground him enough (the drummer is the producer, after all).

I think it's a lotta fun, the soul & jazz elements remind me a lot of ATCQ, and this cannot be a bad thing. That said I have yet to listen to the entire album through, since we spent so much time last night barhopping and right now I'm in an Iggy mood.

I don't much like the album, or The Roots in general. Apart from perhaps Things Fall Apart, they don't make solid albums. But "Water" from Phrenology is great.

sounding really good today tbh

"water" is still mostly uneccessary, tho

I haven't listened to this in years and years but it is killing me dead. Sequencing remains a mess, but maybe in the best way.

Yes, a dozen reviews in the new Uncut, which when last I checked was a dozen more than you had. And yes I am getting paid for them, and you are not.

the first section of "water" is the highlight of this album. seeing them play it live was incredible. made the inconsistency of the album a little more bearable. stankonia : outkast :: prhenology : the roots — which is to say: it was the beginning of the end, but not without some classic tracks.

also, what happened to our friend marcello?